Louis van Gaal's tactics

[Ash_G]

There is no concept of his players taking a man on. No one is allowed to play intelligent one-two's or be creative and take some chances. It's always go for the safest pass up until it goes to the wings, then we cross the ball into the box more in hope than belief. Ridiculous. To play this style of football, you don't need star players.

But the problem is even if we wanted to play like this with the starting 11 and way we played second half could we? The central players are all too slow/lost that slight turn of pace they had and the player with the most guile on the team is isolated out wide, particularly without Herrera being close enough to bring him in to the game enough. Then out wide Mata/Young aren't going down the line much so we can't get in behind easily.

Then second half we brought on ADM and yeah he was pretty poor but when the tactic was just lump it up it doesn't help either. We need players to get in behind and in that set up it's hard to do and too reliant on a defensive mistake/quality ball/luck to get a break.

I was surprised he went with Fellaini through the middle again. I recognise he's done a good job over the past 2 months or so but he's still limited and him playing where he does limits the attacking possibilities, same with pushing RVP/Rooney deeper limits the movement. There's no guarantee they'd pick up their performances but I think he could have done more to get januzaj back in form over the season (Falcao has had decent time showing a lot less) and at least attempting to get players with pace/technical ability a chance to link up. ADM hasn't been great and was poor today but I think he has a chance of putting in a better show with players to link with. That's how you get around this sort of set up, players who can accept the ball in a tight area, draw a defender out and then pass it on to someone running in behind. Most times you get in to a good position or you draw a foul in a good area.

Although tbf WBA were very lucky to get a goal that's got to be said and we were unlucky not to get through towards the end but for me there's still a problem with not adapting to teams who are gonna set up like WBA.

I don't really get why he's stuck with this set up when we all know it's a stop gap. We're not going to go in to the champions league trying to play with a long ball to the left wing so I don't get why he's bot been trying to mix it up a bit in recent weeks, especially when the set up we had clearly isn't suited to teams who will park the bus.

 

[bosnian_red]

I don't know if it's a LVG tactic to have poor crosses but I thought our players were completely stupid with them. They're either too floaty and therefore way to easy to defend against or with pace and completely inaccurate.
However some of his decisions were jokes, complete disaster.

Yeah, I wouldn't put this down to Van Gaal. It was just awful finishing and awful final ball decision making. Either crosses way to slow and floated in as you say or just right into a defender or way overhit. We had about 2 good crosses in the whole game, and we put in a feck load.

 

[kouroux]

Yeah, I wouldn't put this down to Van Gaal. It was just awful finishing and awful final ball decision making. Either crosses way to slow and floated in as you say or just right into a defender or way overhit. We had about 2 good crosses in the whole game, and we put in a feck load.

Mata did them over and over again, did he not see that West Brom had two giants ?

 

[All 3 United]

We've just lost to West Brom at home and a West Brom that contains Darren Fletcher. He really isn't anything special and the worst thing.... It was as predictable as him bringing in Di Maria and Falcao.

 

[bosnian_red]

Mata did them over and over again, did he not see that West Brom had two giants ?

So annoying that nobody seems to try and whip a cross in. You'd think mata would be a good crosser of the ball with his ability.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Honestly don't think there was a huge amount wrong with the tactics today. Poor performances and under performing forwards yes, but tactics weren't terrible.

Offer any manager 80% possession and close to 30 attempts pre-game and they'll take it every time.

We need better players. Barca are the only team who post similar stats every game. The difference is they have Messi, Neymar and Suarez (also see Dani Alves getting 3 assists today and compare to the shit show served up by Valencia week in week out). We have nothing close. Nothing. All our players are a tier below.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah, I wouldn't put this down to Van Gaal. It was just awful finishing and awful final ball decision making. Either crosses way to slow and floated in as you say or just right into a defender or way overhit. We had about 2 good crosses in the whole game, and we put in a feck load.

Is everyone forgetting a fecking poor penalty? Not saying we would have won but WBA gained so much confidence from that

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

He plays Rooney in midfield and then in the second half he moves RVP to midfield when he was arguably our best striker.

And Fellaini up front....ffs!!

Rooney in midfield was the main cause of the lack of creativity, he's the one who should have some ideas how to create a chance for our best striker, not arguably. He failed miserably. Fellaini up front gave a bit more room to play at the edge of the box.

That doesn't mean LvG didn't do anything wrong. The start of the game was awful, they took it slow the first 10 minutes, letting WBA settle in the game. That's the worst possible start against a parked bus, you have to let them gasp for air, confuse them with movement and pressing, get them nervous, get them doubting their organisation, who's marking who, where to stand and where to run. The second thing he has done wrong is making Rooney captain, he is often just not good enough as a striker and lacks the vision to play behind the striker. Also he often lacks technique, but that's a problem with half of the squad, just simple quick control and hard, accurate passing. The ball needs to be moved around quicker, only then the space opens up, but then you still need a player with vision to be the playmaker.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Honestly don't think there was a huge amount wrong with the tactics today. Poor performances and under performing forwards yes, but tactics weren't terrible.

Offer any manager 80% possession and close to 30 attempts pre-game and they'll take it every time.

We need better players. Barca are the only team who post similar stats every game. The difference is they have Messi, Neymar and Suarez (also see Dani Alves getting 3 assists today and compare to the shit show served up by Valencia week in week out). We have nothing close. Nothing. All our players are a tier below.

80% of possession isn't going to get us into the Top 4 though. We are absolute devoid of creativity, and it seems to happen everytime Carrick is missing in particular. LVG's job as manager is to have other game plans and formations yet he seems to have a serious lack of other options. His formation today was awful, after last week he should of made a couple of changes and should of been more adventurous today, WBA were always going to play like that.

 

[matt23]

I feel like he makes the game far more complicated than it needs to be sometimes. I will never be able to work out the tactical merit of playing our best two strikers in midfield, keeping Mata wide and watching RvP sulk outside the box was actually intriguing, in it's evident stupidity.

I've always said, even at my most critical of LvG, that he was still the only manager I wanted in charge but today has definitely put Klopp in mind. It's probably knee jerk but lets face it, today stank of Moyes, nobody but the baggies fans enjoyed their day at Old Trafford and it was all painfully predictable. Bayern were fairly ruthless when they appointed Pep, and I think one of either us or Liverpool are going to have be the same this summer. Because Klopp will probably have a job at one of the bigger clubs in Europe by this time next year, and we'll need a new manager either way in a year or two anyway.

 

[sullydnl]

I feel like he makes the game far more complicated than it needs to be sometimes. I will never be able to work out the tactical merit of playing our best two strikers in midfield, keeping Mata wide and watching RvP sulk outside the box was actually intriguing, in it's evident stupidity.

I've always said, even at my most critical of LvG, that he was still the only manager I wanted in charge but today has definitely put Klopp in mind. It's probably knee jerk but lets face it, today stank of Moyes, nobody but the baggies fans enjoyed their day at Old Trafford and it was all painfully predictable. Bayern were fairly ruthless when they appointed Pep, and I think one of either us or Liverpool are going to have be the same this summer. Because Klopp will probably have a job at one of the bigger clubs in Europe by this time next year, and we'll need a new manager either way in a year or two anyway.

He has his own rigidly logical set of rules that nobody else is privy too and follows them beyond the realm of common sense. It's a flaw we're gonna have to live with, I think.

 

[Kraftwerker]

80% of possession isn't going to get us into the Top 4 though. We are absolute devoid of creativity, and it seems to happen everytime Carrick is missing in particular. LVG's job as manager is to have other game plans and formations yet he seems to have a serious lack of other options. His formation today was awful, after last week he should of made a couple of changes and should of been more adventurous today, WBA were always going to play like that.

Better forwards we win that 4-0. We don't have the players.

80% possession and over 25 shots might not win the game but it damn well should be 9 times out of 10. Unacceptable.

Not sure why the formation is to blame. It was 4-3-3. The personnel on the other hand...

 

[RedStarUnited]

Stop bitching about the tactics etc.

Its the players out there, if u set your team up to have all that ball, you would think the attackers would do something a bit mote with it.

 

[Insanity]

I feel like he makes the game far more complicated than it needs to be sometimes. I will never be able to work out the tactical merit of playing our best two strikers in midfield, keeping Mata wide and watching RvP sulk outside the box was actually intriguing, in it's evident stupidity.

I've always said, even at my most critical of LvG, that he was still the only manager I wanted in charge but today has definitely put Klopp in mind. It's probably knee jerk but lets face it, today stank of Moyes, nobody but the baggies fans enjoyed their day at Old Trafford and it was all painfully predictable. Bayern were fairly ruthless when they appointed Pep, and I think one of either us or Liverpool are going to have be the same this summer. Because Klopp will probably have a job at one of the bigger clubs in Europe by this time next year, and we'll need a new manager either way in a year or two anyway.

That's how I feel right now. I know it's kneejerk, but we need to say thank you to VG if he gets top 4 and call it quits. My biggest worry is giving this man another huge transfer kitty to waste on his bizarre ideas.

 

[::sonny::]

Louis Van Nullity

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Better forwards we win that 4-0. We don't have the players.

80% possession and over 25 shots might not win the game but it damn well should be 9 times out of 10. Unacceptable.

Not sure why the formation is to blame. It was 4-3-3. The personnel on the other hand...

Agree in that this squad still needs a hell of a lot of work, and frankly he needs to be ruthless and show some people the door to, in fact 4-5 of today's 11 would be prime candidates.

The personnel picked though comes down to the manager, he could of easily went with pace out wide today in Januzaj and Di Maria. Amongst other things it was just absolute shoddyness from LVG, at one point RVP and Rooney were in midfield while Fellaini was the striker, like what the hell is that about?

 

[legball]

A lot [of losses] is always being blamed on tactics but not for me in this game, on another day, we could have won. However, I do think we're lacking in the final third, we need a player who can take on a man or two, and commit the opposition, Barca at their best had Messi doing that. We desperately lack that player. I don't know what tactics could have helped us today against a team that decided to just cam in their box, I think most of you don't appreciate how difficult it is to play against this kind of set-up. Today showed why we need a player like Hazard or even Sanchez, we're playing too much as a unit, but sometimes it's not the solution, you need that one player who can do it on his own, for me, that's the biggest thing we lack.

 

[Mockney]

I don't know if it's a LVG tactic to have poor crosses

I'd say it definitely is. First thing on the tactics board.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

A lot [of losses] is always being blamed on tactics but not for me in this game, on another day, we could have won. However, I do think we're lacking in the final third, we need a player who can take on a man or two, and commit the opposition, Barca at their best had Messi doing that. We desperately lack that player. I don't know what tactics could have helped us today against a team that decided to just cam in their box, I think most of you don't appreciate how difficult it is to play against this kind of set-up. Today showed why we need a player like Hazard or even Sanchez, we're playing too much as a unit, but sometimes it's not the solution, you need that one player who can do it on his own, for me, that's the biggest thing we lack.

And to think, some people on here actually don't want Bale.

 

[matt23]

That's how I feel right now. I know it's kneejerk, but we need to say thank you to VG if he gets top 4 and call it quits. My biggest worry is giving this man another huge transfer kitty to waste on his bizarre ideas.

Absolutely, but I would stress the thank you bit. He's done a very good job if he gets us into the top 4. he's brought a different way of thinking to our players of all ages and generally, we've been a lot better than last season. But with Klopp I think we're talking about a manager that has spoken before about his ambition to work n England, and a manager that will almost certainly be in charge of one of our domestic, or European rivals in less than 12 months. The fact that LvG will be gone regardless of what happens in 2 years time makes this a decision that needs to me made imo. We're basically risking losing Klopp forever for the sake of 12 months of LvG.

 

[bosnian_red]

Is everyone forgetting a fecking poor penalty? Not saying we would have won but WBA gained so much confidence from that

Yep, people are being overdramatic but the reality is that was just one of those days. Compare this loss to our losses earlier on in the season and you can say it's a better loss, so to speak. We missed a pen, should have had another one called, missed countless other chances while their keeper had a worldie and they score off one of their 2 or 3 attacks through a deflected free kick. Did anyone have any confidence RvP would put the pen away or that Brunt's free kick would miss? Just had the feel of one of those days as the game wore on.

What we need to do is create chances more consistently and sustain pressure, without just passing the ball around at the edge of their box. We were constantly in good positions but the final ball was really lacking.

 

[kps88]

Better forwards we win that 4-0. We don't have the players.

80% possession and over 25 shots might not win the game but it damn well should be 9 times out of 10. Unacceptable.

Not sure why the formation is to blame. It was 4-3-3. The personnel on the other hand...

We surely have the players to beat West Brom at home? Up to the manager to find a tactic that can achieve that. The system we're playing right now creates very few clear cut chances and requires clinical strikers which, like you say, we don't have. We need to go more open and give up some possession in exchange for more bodies up front; a change in formation can do that.

 

[Kakeru]

Ill-adapted for English football... that's all there is to say about Van Gaal's tactics when West Brom is a carbon copy of 60% (if not 70%) of teams making the Premier League. Coincidence when we lost so many silly points against those teams? i think not.

 

[SonnyTheHaloPro]

Yep, people are being overdramatic but the reality is that was just one of those days. Compare this loss to our losses earlier on in the season and you can say it's a better loss, so to speak. We missed a pen, should have had another one called, missed countless other chances while their keeper had a worldie and they score off one of their 2 or 3 attacks through a deflected free kick. Did anyone have any confidence RvP would put the pen away or that Brunt's free kick would miss? Just had the feel of one of those days as the game wore on.

What we need to do is create chances more consistently and sustain pressure, without just passing the ball around at the edge of their box. We were constantly in good positions but the final ball was really lacking.

You are so deluded man.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Agree in that this squad still needs a hell of a lot of work, and frankly he needs to be ruthless and show some people the door to, in fact 4-5 of today's 11 would be prime candidates.

The personnel picked though comes down to the manager, he could of easily went with pace out wide today in Januzaj and Di Maria. Amongst other things it was just absolute shoddyness from LVG, at one point RVP and Rooney were in midfield while Fellaini was the striker, like what the hell is that about?

The line-up was fine. We just don't have the options.

Di Maria proved why he hasn't been starting, and Januzaj can be just as frustrating.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing, but we should've been pulverising them with that level of dominance. It's on the players.

 

[BennyBlanco]

The line-up was fine. We just don't have the options.

Di Maria proved why he hasn't been starting, and Januzaj can be just as frustrating.

Hindsight's a wonderful thing, but we should've been pulverising them with that level of dominance. It's on the players.

It's equally on coaching,
You cant play so safe, slow and methodical like that around well disciplined defences and expect to create?
Our play is too rigid, we dont have the creativity from midfield and lack players who're able to beat a man and put a defence into panic.

 

[bosnian_red]

You are so deluded man.

Losses like this happen now and again, you just have to accept it. It's concerning how we have failed to score for 3 games now and lost 3 on the bounce though. Creating chances consistently and sustaining pressure on opposing defenses has been a problem all season, but today like against Chelsea we made more then enough chances. Today though you can criticize us for our chance creation because we had so much of the ball and should have made even more then we did, but at the same time we probably should have scored at least 3 or 4. Our finishing was the reason for the loss today, and vs Chelsea, but in the greater view the chance creation is the greater concern. Not sure what's deluded about that.

The final ball from our wide players is just consistently wank. Every now and then we have games where we put in good deliveries, like against City, and it all works out, but we need wide players who can create more consistently. Di Maria can normally but his head is somewhere else clearly.

 

[legball]

Ill-adapted for English football... that's all there is to say about Van Gaal's tactics when West Brom is a carbon copy of 60% (if not 70%) of teams making the Premier League. Coincidence when we lost so many silly points against those teams? i think not.

I don't get this point. Barca took us apart and have taken apart some of the best teams in England with this style, the notion that you have to be gung ho to succeed in England is just based on nothing. We lost a game that we could have won on another day, I mean, under Ferguson most games at OT were like this, and I don't think the approach we had in that second half was any different from what Ferguson would do. When teams sit back, you are left with no option but to keep probing, it didn't work today.

 

[All 3 United]

Just to clarify LVG had an absolutely better player in every position against Everton and West Brom and lost both. That says it all.

 

[Blue always red]

Why so much reliance on crossing when we have such technical players?

 

[Sarni]

I'm not sure what he could have done to prevent this from happening. We had the ball the whole game and conceded a shit goal that van Gaal surely couldn't in any way prevent. Our attacking players had no idea how to break West Brom down and we had absolutely no luck out there. Last week was terrible, today was just a bad day at the office IMO.

 

[redindian1987]

This place has to be made a case study for bipolar behaviour. Those results against Spurs, Liverpool and City, LVG is a genius and people were wanking over Carragher comparing us to Barcelona! A couple of bad results, he's clueless and his tactics don't suit the Premier League! So a "philosophy" that won the manager the Champions League, La Liga and Bundesliga, not to mention Holland ending up 3rd in the World Cup despite having a poor squad, it isn't good enough for the Premier League!

 

[J-Stander]

This place has to be made a case study for bipoal behaviour. Those results against Spurs, Liverpool and City, LVG is a genius and people were wanking over Carragher comparing us to Barcelona! A couple of bad results, he's clueless and his tactics don't suit the Premier League! So a "philosophy" that won the manager the Champions League, La Liga and Bundesliga, not to mention Holland ending up 3rd in the World Cup despite having a poor squad, it isn't good enough for the Premier League!

The tactics worked because those teams came out and attacked and we were able to pick them off. Its an entirely different story when teams come and sit back, and he doesn't seem to have any plan B.

 

[Kraftwerker]

It's equally on coaching,
You cant play so safe, slow and methodical like that around well disciplined defences and expect to create?
Our play is too rigid, we dont have the creativity from midfield and lack players who're able to beat a man and put a defence into panic.

I don't think there was much wrong with the approach. You expect to win with that level of dominance. The only way you don't win is if your players don't do the job. Ours didn't.

I've never been so sure that with some top class signings this summer, we'll turn games like that into four or five nil wins.

 

[wiz4231]

LVG was stupid and stubborn today. He should have seen this coming, over the last 2 games we've seen the same thing, we've been found out. During our golden run we played well because teams were attacking us and they came out with the ball, now team know that they can sit back and capitalise on any chances they get. While teams were attacking us we used Fellaini as LVG says "to beat the pressure" and it worked, now teams are not doing that, they are sitting back and defending deep, giving us all the possession and hitting us on the counter. For that reason, why is Fellaini on the pitch when there's no pressure to beat? Why in this scenario is Fellaini on the pitch when you have Falcao and Di Maria on the Bench, Mata not in his favoured position, its so damn ridiculous to watch.
Possession football means jack if you can't do anything with it. Having all 10 outfield players in the opposition half = no space, limited opportunity to create chances. If the first have was anything to go by, LVG should have taken Fellaini off because there was no need for him to be on the pitch and put on a more creative player on like Di Maria move Mata central alongside Rooney, players who could create chances. Hoofing the ball to Fellaini does not work in this formation as it didn't in any other when playing possession football, we have to be under pressure to use him otherwise he restricts our game.
We need to have more than 1 way of football. If teams sit deep and put 10 man behind the ball in their own half, we shouldnt just, keep possession, keep attacking and pile pressure on them because theres no space to get through on goal, we should encourage them to step out their half and have a go at us, let them have the ball at time so we can create some space behind them to attack.
All players can't be blamed for todays performance, RVP, Smalling, Herrera, Mata did well, they worked hard. Today loss was all down to LVG stubbornness to not change his way having seen the same pattern over the last 2 games. Were at a critical stage in the season, I expect better from him.

 

[Kakeru]

The tactics worked because those teams came out and attacked and we were able to pick them off. Its an entirely different story when teams come and sit back, and he doesn't seem to have any plan B.

This.

And unless all Premier League teams decide to play wide open attacking football like Brian Clough would have loved to see, we will have more trouble with the lower teams as long as we don't have contingency plans.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I don't think there was much wrong with the approach. You expect to win with that level of dominance. The only way you don't win is if your players don't do the job. Ours didn't.

I've never been so sure that with some top class signings this summer, we'll turn games like that into four or five nil wins.

I dont know, for some reason I expect LvG to coach any flair, risk and creativity out of anyone we buy.
We've always been built on pace, power and directness, what was that shite we were subjected to for the first 60minutes?

 

[holyland red]

I'm not sure what he could have done to prevent this from happening. We had the ball the whole game and conceded a shit goal that van Gaal surely couldn't in any way prevent. Our attacking players had no idea how to break West Brom down and we had absolutely no luck out there. Last week was terrible, today was just a bad day at the office IMO.

Isn't that in his job description?

 

[Silverman]

We missed a penalty and a hat load of chances.......nothing wrong with the tactics.

 

[Kill 'em all]

This place has to be made a case study for bipolar behaviour. Those results against Spurs, Liverpool and City, LVG is a genius and people were wanking over Carragher comparing us to Barcelona! A couple of bad results, he's clueless and his tactics don't suit the Premier League! So a "philosophy" that won the manager the Champions League, La Liga and Bundesliga, not to mention Holland ending up 3rd in the World Cup despite having a poor squad, it isn't good enough for the Premier League!

3 losses in a row mate and haven't scored in over 5 hours of football now. This was our most winnable game in the last 4 and we've lost it and we're 4 points ahead of Liverpool with 2 tough away games and Arsenal at home.