It's been extremely overrated. I'm sure even Moysey, would have improved out football somewhat in comparison to last season. Given LVG has spent roughly £150m, it would be criminal not to have seen any sort of improvements.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
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It's been extremely overrated. I'm sure even Moysey, would have improved out football somewhat in comparison to last season. Given LVG has spent roughly £150m, it would be criminal not to have seen any sort of improvements.
Not for me either.
Ok. Fair enough. Didn't know that.
If that's the case, then what about starting to drill EVERYONE on defensive tactics until EVERYONE assimilate their roles, Louis?
I'm not addressing directly that to you, of course. I'm just fed up with the apparent lack of progress on the defensive front. Even if our Ds may not have that quality we are looking for, can we at least have the whole team working on that until it becomes second nature? It is not by conceding so many goals every game that we will get where we want to be.
And also, he MUST just send Van Persie on the bench already.
At least we could have winned tonight. If our lateral defenders would've been a bit sharper, that is.
To be fair, we're a lot harder to break down now than we were in August. Big test on sunday though.
I´m leaning towards this. I think most excitement come from the fact we have some better players. We still see a lot of cluelessness around the final third and hoofing and crossing when we are out of ideas. We´re better at passing it around in midfield though.
As much as he's getting a lot of stick for the daft comment about this being our worst performance, he did admit that he's not overly happy with our points return in our 8 games so far. Decent bit of honesty from him at least, even if his thoughts on the overall performance were a bit bizarre.
I don't think anyone really feels the football is superb though - more that it's just a lot more positive and an improvement on last season, which is a start at the very least.
Can't disagree with this. And some want to spend 100 million more before we apparently get a better team.
Its not amazing or anything yet but there is clear improvements in terms of fluidity, the chances we make and the control on matches we have. We just have lapses in concentration too often that costs us goals. Considering there were so many changes in the summer I'm optimistic that it'll only get better, but the overall performances are more "attractive" then they were for the last 3-4 years. We won games under Fergie but it was so static and slow, but clinical when we did get chances.
A lot of you, in fact most, have absolutely no clue about how building a team works. Anyone criticizing LvG's efforts on here are just showing their ignorance
I think we have to see how we do in the big games to judge that, in fairness we played quite well against the mediocre sides in the second half of last season. 2-0 at Upton Park, 3-0 at the Hawthorns, 4-0 at St. James' Park. It just went to shit when we played anyone good like at Goodison, we haven't had especially tricky away games and yet we've not won any of them.
Building the team always starts at the back. It may sound like a cliche, but this is what all teams in most disciplines will say and rightfully so. LVG neglected that part in his transfer work, but the most baffling is that it is becoming apparent that defensive drills are not in the menu when they should be the main dish in our situation. Sorting out defensive play as a unit should be more important than anything else anybody could come up with.
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What a lot of nonsense. You don't need to be a master of team building to have performed better than this after the money we've spent. Look to Ronald Koeman for all the evidence you need of that. Van Gaal is a good manager but so far he has underwhelmed with a lot of advantages.
I personally don't find much to blame him. It is clear that he always knows what he is doing. Unfortunately, a new group with so many players working together first time this season and not too mention the god awful injury list is what which is preventing us from having a stable defense and XI and hence be more comfortable in the game.
There are some improvements yes but not to the degree some seem to be making out. Lets not forget this is probably the easiest opening 8 fixtures you could have had. However it could be the opposite and you actually perform better vs the likes of us and City.
Again no he didnt neglect that in his transfer work. He bought Rojo and was most probably after Hummerls or another top class CB that he didnt get, he alluded as much in a press conference. He had 3 senior CBs to choose from and two he promoted. Players have to take their chances and perform to the required standard.
Thats bollocks too, theres no easy fixtures anymore.
This is what I am hoping to be the case as if it does follow the usual pattern we will need to have taken more points by now.
People do pose the question of how will we do against the 'big' clubs from now on. Well aside from Chelsea and City, who are the 'big' clubs right now. Arsenal or Southampton for example? Spurs or Swansea?
Pretty much all the teams are competitive now.
I didnt say 'easy' I said 'easiest'. You wouldnt claim Burnley away Swansea at home and Leicester away to be as hard as Everton away City away and Chelsea at home would you?
The fixture list has obviously been kind but I'm not sure it makes that much of a difference. I mean, no team has impressed apart from you lot, and then City to a much lesser extent. Then there's southampton as well, but playing against Arsenal or Liverpool or Spurs in these first 10 games I would have fancied us even with our inconsistent form because they have looked even worse, arguably. People say stuff like we haven't come up against a big team, but every big team they've come up against they played poorly and lost, so what is the difference? Just having them out of the way? We could still get something out of those games.
There really is no difference these days. Outside of yourselves and City nobody has looked a certain bet and even City lost at home to Stoke. I think the days of easy starts and easy title run ins are gone
You are probably right on paper.
The interesting thing is that we have yet to play a team that is known for playing free flowing football (Arsenal - last decade) or sits back to let you play (Spurs). These teams were grafters, bar QPR who fell apart after the first goal. West Ham, Everton and Sunderland are not always games we walk. West Brom have been known to give us a hard game at OT and at their place. But you are right, history suggests we should have more points on the board. I am sure that Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal fans think the same about their team.
This season, we do tend to attack more, and the players do not panic when on the ball. In fact, they pass to each other a lot more than they every did in the last 2 seasons, one of which we won the league. We have made mistakes these early games and been rightly punished. If we had not crumbled against Leicester, for whatever reason, LVG would have a near on 100% record since he made his purchases. I can see us doing well second half of the season, it depends how far off the pace we become in this first half of the season.
very difficult decision, I would say, if we miss out slightly but we are playing brilliant football, give him another crack of the whip. theres no way we could get klopp until his contract ends in 2018 so its not like we can get a good replacement. Peps got another year after this as well.
I got absolutely no doubt in my mind that LvG will get us there.
Moyes took over the champions of England - LvG took over a bunch of losers. It might be a simplistic knee jerk view, but that is how I see it.
Moyes took over the champions of England - LvG took over a bunch of losers. It might be a simplistic knee jerk view, but that is how I see it.
I really don't understand the sudden change of tactics, or what those tactics were, at all today. Personally, I think LVG dropped a bollock tonight, and cost us 3 points. West Brom really weren't all that.
We'd finally started to play ourselves into a bit of form, got ourselves a settled midfield trio of Blind/Herrera/Di Maria, and then LVG just went and ripped it all up. He stuck Di Maria on the wing (which nullified him without a ball even being kicked), he pushed Herrera up almost as a second striker (so we lost all our bite in midfield), dropped Mata slightly deeper (but almost next to Herrera), and had Blind in the midfield virtually on his own. On top of that he randomly started Januzaj for the first time this season, who, understandably, looked nowhere near up to speed with the play.
I know its easy to say in hindsight, but if we'd played with the same formation we've been using since the end of the 3-4-3 experiment, I think we'd have won quite comfortably. Experimenting with a new system, away from home in the PL, is just asking for trouble.
We'd finally started to play ourselves into a bit of form, got ourselves a settled midfield trio of Blind/Herrera/Di Maria, and then LVG just went and ripped it all up. He stuck Di Maria on the wing (which nullified him without a ball even being kicked), he pushed Herrera up almost as a second striker (so we lost all our bite in midfield), dropped Mata slightly deeper (but almost next to Herrera), and had Blind in the midfield virtually on his own. On top of that he randomly started Januzaj for the first time this season, who, understandably, looked nowhere near up to speed with the play.
I know its easy to say in hindsight, but if we'd played with the same formation we've been using since the end of the 3-4-3 experiment, I think we'd have won quite comfortably. Experimenting with a new system, away from home in the PL, is just asking for trouble.
Ahh, but they were the champions of England under the greatest manger of all time. There is definitely a difference between the inherited 'spirit', however 165M worth of imports, 7 of whom started today meaning only 4 Moyes men played, should bridge the gap.
I remember Fergie taking strange decisions during the first three months of competition too, specially during the last decade.
I think is important that we give all players play time and try different formations and options, it is better to feck things up now than in the end of the season.
I think it speaks well about the mentality of the team that we got a goal late in the game. We are getting there.
I think is important that we give all players play time and try different formations and options, it is better to feck things up now than in the end of the season.
I think it speaks well about the mentality of the team that we got a goal late in the game. We are getting there.
I think he made a mistake changing the formation tonight just when the players seemed to be getting used to the diamond. Annoying that Van Persie seems untouchable too.
Exactly. I think he's underestimating the league. You can't just try out new formations and systems in away games in the PL and expect to come out with comfortable wins.
Lots of lovely green shoots of recovery on view, to paraphrase one of two politicians. We're not there, in fact we're still a ways off but once Van Gaal fully gets to grips with the Premiership, we'll be fine. Don't forget, we've suffered appallingly with injuries and we've got Rooney in dock. You can see that he has a plan - probably a few plans but it was encouraging to see (a) goals coming from our midfielders; (b)the team attacking to the end; and (c) evidence that these players are beginning to gel as a team and are playing for one another. Once we've added an experienced central defender to the mix, we will be formidable. It's still early days and, dare I say it, United have always been stronger after Christmas. Anyway, I have a sneaking suspicion that we'll beat Chelsea.
His previous reputation allows him some leeway, an armour against criticism that Moyes didn't have. Unfortunately reputation can only get one so far before questions need to start being asked. We had, on paper, a relatively easy start that we needed to get close to maximum points from. Looking at the table, we sit 6th and 5 points off 2nd, which seems fine until you see our fixtures vs. those of our top 4 rivals. I think LVG has made some questionable subs and tactical decisions. The lack of unrest compared to this time last season under Moyes seems to be due to LVG's previous slow starts and subsequent success, and to be fair, it's not even November yet. However, I think serious questions will need to be asked to the manager if our form don't improve by January.
What irritates me the most is people/commentators on tv saying "united had an easy start" What people forget is this:
There are no easy matches anymore. You know why we used to call them easy matches? because they shat their pants the moment they saw United walking up the field. After a season of drama after drama they know they can win. Others have shown anyone can win. So what do they do? They have the mentality to win, and not to concede as less as possible. The fear factor is simply gone, and every match is going to be a struggle.
I can actually see us do well vs big clubs, and struggle against smaller clubs. Because at big clubs we know whats waiting for us. We know we can't push their turf 24/7 and fail by getting countered as we will be more defensive and organized. Its pretty much what has cost us every point so far.
There are no easy matches anymore. You know why we used to call them easy matches? because they shat their pants the moment they saw United walking up the field. After a season of drama after drama they know they can win. Others have shown anyone can win. So what do they do? They have the mentality to win, and not to concede as less as possible. The fear factor is simply gone, and every match is going to be a struggle.
I can actually see us do well vs big clubs, and struggle against smaller clubs. Because at big clubs we know whats waiting for us. We know we can't push their turf 24/7 and fail by getting countered as we will be more defensive and organized. Its pretty much what has cost us every point so far.
Agree, there's no such thing as an easy game anymore. Sure, it might as well look easy on paper, but what happens these days on the field is entirely different. Teams know how to win, they don't really fear us anymore and probably rightly so. I doubt if we'd be performing any better against better opposition though.
WBA scored twice from two shots on target. MK Dons scored four from seven on target. Leicester scored five from five on target. It's a recurring theme this season - teams draw us in and then pick their moments to destroy us. We're being broken down at will and we can't seem to find a way to cope. Annoyingly, they're not even having to do anything special anymore - there was a time that beating United, or even taking a point from them, required a gargantuan effort.
Yesterday evening was like yet another bad horror movie - could see what was coming from a mile off. At 1-1, once our head of steam had run out, it was obvious they'd score.
It's conceivable we'll be in 12/13 points after 10 games - and the philosophy will be in tatters.
Both took over the same bunch of players though.
Why we don't admit that apart from RVP and DDG all signings done by SAF in his last 5 years were basically crap?
Nah, you're being incredibly melodramatic. Can't believe anyone would genuinely think last night's defensive performance was comparable with Leicester or MK Dons. Weird.
Last season, Pellegrini's first season in the PL and City's away form was shocking to begin with. Then they settled down and started winning away. It's a learning curve for the managers as well but I'm sure LvG will get there. The progress, whilst slow (mainly due to injuries) is obvious. I have total belief in him.
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