He didn't improve the technical quality. We play our best football with pace and Sir Alex used to preach tempo. I can't believe this is a mystery to LVG. We are more methodical and I guess that's where it falls down. We are not that kind of team. We lack imagination. It would be ok if we had a Ronaldinho but we don't. We played better today but I think we've on a run that we've brought on ourselves.
Louis van Gaal: "I am - or maybe was - a very successful manager."
- Thread starter MyOnlySolskjaer
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That's all very nice but it doesn't take away from the fact that his time here, so far, has been dire.
What the fans think now is largely irrelevant. If he goes then everyone will rember this spell for what it is and frankly, not a lot of it is very positive overall.
He has obviously been a great manager. This job seems to prove he isn't anymore and that the game has moved on and is passing him by.
He's ruthless. He's disposed of players at his own whim at United and elsewhere. He's treat experienced and respected players badly - Valdes being an example. As it is I can see why some won't be overly sympathetic if he's sacked.
If Valdes is the best example you can provide, then your point doesn't hold much water.
He looked pretty shellshocked at the end of the game. I think he's maybe got 2 games to save his job. 4 points from Stoke and the Chavs and he'll be alright, otherwise I think he's done
Watching his presser yesterday and the reaction after the match shows he is under pressure. I think he'll have Stoke at most and even that may not save him. Anything barring a thrashing of Stoke will seal his fate. The fact that Giggs was on the touchline for so long today speaks volumes of the current mood. He's not done that more than a few times and a few minutes before today. Why now? Does he know something is stirring or is he just so fed up he figures what else has he got to lose. Will be an interesting week for sure. I was more worried about the Stoke game than Norwich. Now I'm really worried.
Whether or not LvG goes.
It's not his fault that the players can't pick a pass, control a pass, find a man, make a run, put a shot on target, put a shot past the keeper, mark a man, or make a tackle.
I get that a lot of people don't like his tactics, but his tactics are NOT hindering the attack. The players are hindering the attack. Regardless of tactics, our players are FAILING in their job to attack. We have possession of the ball the majority of the time, in the final third, and the PLAYERS cannot unlock the defense. LvG isn't ordering them to pass the ball back, don't be fecking silly. He wants them to score, he wants them to cut teams up. They just are not doing it. He's built a platform for the team to attack from, and the team isn't doing it. That's the problem.
Now, I know a lot of you want us to play a prehistoric 442 where we run the ball down the wings and whip in crosses, and so LvG has done the equivalent of kicking your dog. I get it, you are old, afraid of change and want United to play a certain way because by golly that's how United played when my great great gran daddy watched United play in 1825!!!!! You need to come to terms with this, the team is failing. That said.
It's easier to get rid of the manager than it is to retool a team, but the fact is this;
Either our attack is garbage, or.
Our players are not trying.
Personally, I think the players are trying, I just think the attack is shit.
It's not his fault that the players can't pick a pass, control a pass, find a man, make a run, put a shot on target, put a shot past the keeper, mark a man, or make a tackle.
I get that a lot of people don't like his tactics, but his tactics are NOT hindering the attack. The players are hindering the attack. Regardless of tactics, our players are FAILING in their job to attack. We have possession of the ball the majority of the time, in the final third, and the PLAYERS cannot unlock the defense. LvG isn't ordering them to pass the ball back, don't be fecking silly. He wants them to score, he wants them to cut teams up. They just are not doing it. He's built a platform for the team to attack from, and the team isn't doing it. That's the problem.
Now, I know a lot of you want us to play a prehistoric 442 where we run the ball down the wings and whip in crosses, and so LvG has done the equivalent of kicking your dog. I get it, you are old, afraid of change and want United to play a certain way because by golly that's how United played when my great great gran daddy watched United play in 1825!!!!! You need to come to terms with this, the team is failing. That said.
It's easier to get rid of the manager than it is to retool a team, but the fact is this;
Either our attack is garbage, or.
Our players are not trying.
Personally, I think the players are trying, I just think the attack is shit.
None of those are like the BPL. Its very easy to win when there is no parity in your league. Bayern has always had ungodly finances compared to the rest of the Bundesliga, and at Barça, his only real competition was Real... way too much parity in the BPL, especially with the TV money. If you're not a great manager, you will get exposed in England.
Hes knows its happening, just a matter of time until the sack.
I think that's not necessarily true. I really dont think the EPL is the benchmark for being a great manager. Neither do I think La liga, Seria A or the Bundesliga is.
I think its possible to struggle in one abd still be a very good manager. It just means you have struggled to adapt to that league. It happens with players too, sometimes you just dont fit in a particular environment.
Van Gaal's philosophy didnt work here for a plethora of reasons, but it's worked many times before and at the highest level too. I wont take that away from him.
The thing about parity is really not true.
When Van Gaal joined Bayern in 2009, Wolfsburg and Stuttgart had won the last two league titles. He didnt just walk into a ready made bed.
With Barca, Valencia were a significant challenger at the time.
They knocked Barca out in the semis of the UCL in Van Gaal's first Barca stint (they made two UCL finals in a row)
And in his second stint, a Rafa Benitez led Valencia actually won la liga
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I have no sympathy for him. We got to be as ruthless to him as he has been to some of our players.
He likes honesty. Let's give him that.
He likes honesty. Let's give him that.
doesn't that make his £260 million recruitment even worse?
Up until I saw the pre-match presser for yesterday's game, I thought he'd last at least to the end of the season. Now, I would be surprised if sees out the New Year.
I'd be shocked if he survives the coming week.
The players need to take some responsibility but he signed most of them and their confidence is shot to shit. He has to take the blame for most of that. Also we've have had about 7 shots on target in the last 4 games from a stat on twitter and that is absolutely his philosophy and to say that it is not his fault is giving LVG way too much credit
The press conference was astounding. He didnt exactly give off an aura of defiance. It could well be the most negative deflated response to a loss Ive ever seen. Sad really.
I dont know where the positive spin on this could come from. The execs have a real problem here. But one thing is for sure, LvG is finished fighting for United, it might not be that he is sacked, but there is no fight left in the old dog now.
I dont know where the positive spin on this could come from. The execs have a real problem here. But one thing is for sure, LvG is finished fighting for United, it might not be that he is sacked, but there is no fight left in the old dog now.
It is our 'responsibility'! Seriously?! Why on earth would anyone think that? The guy was a very good football manager but he has done very little for us over the last 18 months. We have hardly progressed this season and the guy is so stubborn that he would rather the club suffer than he change his 'philosophy'. We owe him nothing. The best we can do is ask him to retire when we want to sack him. If he refuses then I wouldn't care even if we sack him on the PA during a game at OT.
That's a bit much. Texting him during a game maybe?It sounds we miss a van Persie
Just turned on his post match presser and couldn't watch past the first couple of minutes. He looks absolutely broken, felt sorry for him in a way. His arrogance and confidence in his ability must be making this so hard for him to take. He realises he has failed this season.
The sack is inevitable now but I really hope he can go off quietly with maybe an applause in the last game. Don't want him to get a bad farewell considering its his last managerial job.
The sack is inevitable now but I really hope he can go off quietly with maybe an applause in the last game. Don't want him to get a bad farewell considering its his last managerial job.
How many of his signings weren't quality players though? It's a fact that there's something wrong in the club that even supposedly world class players turn to shit the moment they sign for us. It's a fact that the majority of our players under Sir Alex were fecking clueless when it came to playing any other style that a high tempo game, and Van Gaal tried his best to change it.
Like it or not, it's a fact that players need to be flexible enough to play in multiple formations, we're no longer a club that could rely on one manager to guide us for 20 odd years, chopping and changing managers won't change the fact that unless we go back to a high tempo game, the players will still flop under the new manager.
The game has changed and the slower our club attempts to make changes, the harder it will be for us to be competitive in the future.
Ok, i think i would want him to be here till the end of the season. I do not want Jose at United nor do i want to see Giggs. At this rate we will miss out on the champions league next season. Maybe then we get someone unknown who turns out to be world class.
Although it might sound daft and is daft, without CL next season, we might maybe get Neville and Ole to manage United and give them a chance. You never know. But that will still be better than Giggs being the manager.
If Jose has to come then let him come next season, till then LVG should be given a chance, maybe he might steady the ship again and get United to 4th.
Although it might sound daft and is daft, without CL next season, we might maybe get Neville and Ole to manage United and give them a chance. You never know. But that will still be better than Giggs being the manager.
If Jose has to come then let him come next season, till then LVG should be given a chance, maybe he might steady the ship again and get United to 4th.
The worse thing about Van Gaal's reign is the bloody football hipsters who actually believe the philosophy guff, all you need is a "Give Quiche a Chance" T-shirt.
If you cant understand that after 18 months in charge a failing attack is exactly his problem. This is our third season of having difficulties in attack yet this so called amazing manager has if anything made us worse up front.
I find it it incredible that you're clinging to the illusion that a manager couldn't be responsible for our attackers failing whether it by squad management, man management, coaching, tactics. Nop the philosophy is perfect and everyone else must just be shit.
Maybe beg Fergie and Phelan to take over till the rest of the season for one last hurrah. Phelan can do all the legwork...
Few managers get it, if they don't pick the moment to retire wisely. The World Cup could have been his swansong. It would have been a great ending to his career. After falling down in the pecking order in the first half of the 00's, he worked his way up again with the success at AZ, then in his first season at Bayern and got the chance to make up for the failure with the nationalteam in 2002. He always talked about one last chance to manage a great nation at a World Cup. He got that chance with his nation and did brilliantly. It would have been a wonderful end.Want him gone, but that quote makes me feel really bad for Louis. He deserved a proper swansong at the highest level, guess it just wasn't meant to be. Never a good sight to see a celebrated manager go out the back door, especially one who's up there in age. Looks like he could use a hug too.
He did his best work early in his career, like many other great managers. The job he did at Ajax won't be forgotten. He was one of the most influential managers in football over the last 25 years and one of the most interesting characters no matter how his time at United ends (as criticial as I am of him, I actually hope he can turn it around. I just don't believe he will). But if you don't take the chance to go out on a high and continue with another difficult job, you'll always risk going out on a low. And with his history at the big European clubs, it wasn't unlikely that the end won't be pretty.
It was diffcult to watch him yesterday and it is a bit sad. But it's no real surprise. I'm sure Truus gave him the hug he needed yesterday.
He sounds like a man who knows the end isn't far away. It's like it's a matter of when, not if. It'd be a sad end to what has been a fanstastic career for him no matter how often people touch on the times he's been sacked. Pretty everybody who's managed at the top clubs get the sack at some point and it shouldn't be used as a stuck to beat him with. You don't always get the fairy tale ending and van Gaal's career looks to be ending with the sack, which in truth, would be the right decision.
Get rooney out and things will improve if we play the same way we played yesterday in the first half. Herrera instead f Rooney and Martial as the center forward.
Get Bastian and Schneiderlin as the two midfielders with Herrera as the second striker with Mata and Depay on the wings for about 3 games and see how things improve.
I know during Rooney's absence United were still shit, but we did not have Herrera as well, along with the other injuries.
If LVG tries out this formation with the personnel without Rooney, we will stand a better chance of being successful. I hope he doesn't quit, i feel bad for him plus it's players fault as well and just not the managers.
Get Bastian and Schneiderlin as the two midfielders with Herrera as the second striker with Mata and Depay on the wings for about 3 games and see how things improve.
I know during Rooney's absence United were still shit, but we did not have Herrera as well, along with the other injuries.
If LVG tries out this formation with the personnel without Rooney, we will stand a better chance of being successful. I hope he doesn't quit, i feel bad for him plus it's players fault as well and just not the managers.
Why is that then? He's made him a pariah. He's done so, seemingly as an example of what happens if you cross him and that seems to be the sole reason he's been kept around the club.
Its fine trying to rule by fear, but it only gets you so far. If I saw my boss treating someone like that I'd think he was a bit of a dick frankly.
Also - taking one sentence from my post takes it totally out of context.
Talk of "philosophy" has created the impression that there's some bullshitty French theorist side to Van Gaal's persona, but this quote and his interview post-match show he's a fairly straight guy.
And what context is that exactly? You were saying he had treated lots of players badly and the example you could cite was Valdes. It's not as if he randomly decided to mistreat the guy. Put yourself in the same scenario. Imagine you have a business and you give a job to a mate who is trying to get back on his feet after a difficult period in his life. This said mate then flat out refuses to do the tasks you've assigned to him. Would you still keep him around the company? No, you'd get rid of him. Valdes was told he needed to find a new club. He's still on the wage bill because that's how football contracts works. Any other industry and he'll be gone probably without compensation.
I really like Van Gaal, i don't feel angry. I don't want him gone immediately like i did Moyes. It's weird, we had some great moments under him and i really thought he'd do well here. It's a shame it's not working out.
He has made big decisions - regularly and repeatedly. Valdes is an example. RVP is another - dropped and rarely seen and then forced out. Januzaj went from a solution at 10 to out on loan in a week. Herrera not getting a run for spells last year. Young left on the bench for a kid in our biggest game of the season. Powell brought in at random. Hernandez discarded and seemingly not getting on with Van Gaal at all.
The fact is a lot of these big calls don't seem to work out.
His ability to fall out with players seems to be unparalleled. And frankly, there's a way to handle things sensibly, respectfully and in order to make things a non-story instead of courting controversy. Valdes is a big name with a lot of experience. He also likely has friends at the club. To make him train with the kids is a statement by Van Gaal that he's not to be messed with or you go the same way.
It's highly questionable to me whether you are going to get the best results from a side if that is how you operate.
My point is that he seems to enjoy conflict and that, in my opinion, isn't a good way to get people on board with what you want to do.
In any event the results of his man management are there for all to see at the moment. Whatever he's doing - it's not getting results.
Talking like a man who knows he's on the brink.
I do find it hilarious how there's a number of people saying how he can't be blamed for how the players are performing. It's just ignorance.
Football is far more complicated and the mentality of a player is intrinsically linked to the actions of the manager. If they don't like him, don't agree with his methods, or his tactics are overall just poor, this all rolls into the performance of players. Not to mention the performance of players is linked deeply to the tactical set up made by the manager.
Point is, both are responsible. Just like they were under Moyes. Poor tactics and poor performances.
I feel sorry for LVG, just like I did with Moyes. Ultimately a manager with good intentions but falling short. But I must admit, I'll be glad to see the back of him if and when it happens. I've never been as disinterested in football as I have been since a while into this reign. The way we play is so dull.
Football is far more complicated and the mentality of a player is intrinsically linked to the actions of the manager. If they don't like him, don't agree with his methods, or his tactics are overall just poor, this all rolls into the performance of players. Not to mention the performance of players is linked deeply to the tactical set up made by the manager.
Point is, both are responsible. Just like they were under Moyes. Poor tactics and poor performances.
I feel sorry for LVG, just like I did with Moyes. Ultimately a manager with good intentions but falling short. But I must admit, I'll be glad to see the back of him if and when it happens. I've never been as disinterested in football as I have been since a while into this reign. The way we play is so dull.