L'Oreal sack first transgender model for racism

[Carolina Red]

Where in that does she say all white people are racist?

Unreal... here, I'll repost in italics the parts where she says it...

"Honestly I don’t have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people.

Because most of ya’ll don’t even realise or refuse to acknowledge that your existence, privilege and success as a race is built on the backs, blood and death of people of color. Your entire existence is drenched in racism. From micro-aggressions to terrorism, you guys built the blueprint for this s***.

Come see me when you realise that racism isn’t learned, it’s inherited and consciously or unconsciously passed down through privilege. Once white people begin to admit that their race is the most violent and oppressive force of nature on Earth… then we can talk."

That sum it up for you?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A massive unfactual generalisation about an entire race that paints them in a negative light. I don't see much difference at all between the two.

The racist stereotype about black people being criminals has real, tangible harmful effects though. What's the harm here? A few internet warriors with hurt feelings? Cry me a river. I'm not even arguing that what she said wouldn't fit the dictionary definition of racism. But who gives a shit? Much ado about nothing IMO.

 

[Ødegaard]

Come on man, she actually specifically said "ALL white people" then went on to rant about how we are racist deep down.

How is that not a sackable offence in any job?



Is it also valid then to say ALL white people do that too?

You are dangerously close to defending racist comments here mate.

Nah, not close. It's exactly what he is doing.

 

[Carolina Red]

But who gives a shit?

Her (former) employer, for starters.

 

[2cents]

But who gives a shit?

How about underprivileged, neglected, white working-class communities who are left scratching their heads at a L'Oreal model moaning about the supposed 'privilege' the 'system' grants them.

 

[Redlambs]

Nah, not close. It's exactly what he is doing.

I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but yeah, seems a few guys want to overlook racism.

The racist stereotype about black people being criminals has real, tangible harmful effects though. What's the harm here? A few internet warriors with hurt feelings? Cry me a river. I'm not even arguing that what she said wouldn't fit the dictionary definition of racism. But who gives a shit? Much ado about nothing IMO.

Actually, those internet warriors are her supporters. As per usual they are bleating about the injustice of someone being sacked for free speach. Justifiably sacked for being racist no less.


But yeah racism, much ado about nothing.

 

[villain]

Do I want to engage in this? Hmmm

 

[Redlambs]

Do I want to engage in this? Hmmm

Probably not tbh

I think it's at the point where we are indeed about to go round and round in circles. Probably past it in fact.

I think we should probably just all agree that racism is bad and leave it at that!

 

[FlawlessThaw]

At the risk of getting into another of those circular arguments about what is and isn't racism I can never take it very seriously when white people accuse black people of being racist. Especially relatively mild stuff like this. I mean, where's the harm?

The main harm that I can see is that it gives ahem certain people with a chip on their shoulder something to moan about.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

How about underprivileged, neglected, white working-class communities who are left scratching their heads at a L'Oreal model moaning about the supposed 'privilege' the 'system' grants them.

Bemusement, then? Still not seeing much harm.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The main harm that I can see is that it gives ahem certain people with a chip on their shoulder something to moan about.

Exactly.

 

[villain]

Probably not tbh

I think it's at the point where we are indeed about to go round and round in circles. Probably past it in fact.

I think we should probably just all agree that racism is bad and leave it at that!

I decided to stop attempting to talk to white people about racism a couple weeks ago.

I think I'll just watch.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Actually, those internet warriors are her supporters. As per usual they are bleating about the injustice of someone being sacked for free speach. Justifiably sacked for being racist no less.


But yeah racism, much ado about nothing.

I'm talking about the people offended by what she said. So definitely not the people you refer to.

And of course, I'm sure there are a whole load of knob-heads on both sides of the debate. There always is.

 

[Moved To Differently]

I, myself, have read her posts, the ones she was fired for. And yes, she did makes racist remarkes and has since repeatedly stated she stands by them and wants facebook to reinstate those posts. So although her choice of words have changed, the sentiment clearly hasn't.

Which is the sad thing here, she can't see what's she's actually done wrong with the very valid point she had.

The essence of what she's saying in my opinion:

• White imperialism has been responsible for the greatest aggregate of violence against people of all colours

George Carlin essentially said the same thing and he's regarded as being one of the great social commentators in modern popular culture

• That every white person enjoys white privilege and is either ignorant to it or doesn't care enough to resolve it any meaningful way

On the whole a fair point because it's true about the vast majority of whites but mostly because who is going to take it upon themselves to change a social dynamic this entrenched and abundant? Where the hell would you begin, black people have been trying for at least the past 50/60 years and arguably gone backwards

Delivering her comments at a time when we (the west) are still engaged in military interventions throughout the world that atleast subtly oppress their people and whilst The western superpower elected a man who is clearly for racism or at the very least inequality, who made ambigious comments that did not in any meaningful way condemn the recent events in America that show that racism is still an underlying and widespread issue in America and the west in general.

Despite the larger and salient points she's making, it seems alot of people in this thread want to read into what she said as being a personal attack when even if that is the case, merely chastising her for doing so is just away to discredit her points at the expense of a meaningful conversation about something of real consequence which is race relations.

 

[Redlambs]

I decided to stop attempting to talk to white people about racism a couple weeks ago.

I think I'll just watch.

Fair enough my friend! I'm done now anyway myself

I'm talking about the people offended by what she said. So definitely not the people you refer to.

And of course, I'm sure there are a whole load of knob-heads on both sides of the debate. There always is.

Personally, I'm not offended because there is a point in there anyway. I just think the right outcome has been made. Chat shit, get banged as they say.

 

[Moved To Differently]

Unreal... here, I'll repost in italics the parts where she says it...

"Honestly I don’t have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people.

Because most of ya’ll don’t even realise or refuse to acknowledge that your existence, privilege and success as a race is built on the backs, blood and death of people of color. Your entire existence is drenched in racism. From micro-aggressions to terrorism, you guys built the blueprint for this s***.

Come see me when you realise that racism isn’t learned, it’s inherited and consciously or unconsciously passed down through privilege. Once white people begin to admit that their race is the most violent and oppressive force of nature on Earth… then we can talk."

That sum it up for you?

Could you highlight the part where she says all white people are racist, because I can't see it.

 

[IWat]

The racist stereotype about black people being criminals has real, tangible harmful effects though. What's the harm here? A few internet warriors with hurt feelings? Cry me a river. I'm not even arguing that what she said wouldn't fit the dictionary definition of racism. But who gives a shit? Much ado about nothing IMO.

I don't think many people give a shit, I don't paticularly appreciate some random person I don't know and who I have never met me slandering me but I will somehow manage to live. She said some dumb stuff, some people moaned about it, she got rightfully fired and now her and her 'supporters' are moaning that it's all big injustice, she didn't mean what she said, just like the guy in my imaginary scenario actually meant to only say that black people make up a higher proportion of those convicted of crimes, even though when you write something you can look at it for hours before you hit post.

She's not exactly someone you'd want in a diversity campaign, plenty of people speak up about these issues and don't manage to get themselves fired in the process, that's completely on her.

 

[berbatrick]

The essence of what she's saying in my opinion:

• White imperialism has been responsible for the greatest aggregate of violence against people of all colours

George Carlin essentially said the same thing and he's regarded as being one of the great social commentators in modern popular culture

• That every white person enjoys white privilege and is either ignorant to it or doesn't care enough to resolve it any meaningful way

On the whole a fair point because it's true about the vast majority of whites but mostly because who is going to take it upon themselves to change a social dynamic this entrenched and abundant? Where the hell would you begin, black people have been trying for at least the past 50/60 years and arguably gone backwards

Delivering her comments at a time when we (the west) are still engaged in military interventions throughout the world that atleast subtly oppress their people and whilst The western superpower elected a man who is clearly for racism or at the very least inequality, who made ambigious comments that did not in any meaningful way condemn the recent events in America that show that racism is still an underlying and widespread issue in America and the west in general.

Despite the larger and salient points she's making, it seems alot of people in this thread want to read into what she said as being a personal attack when even if that is the case, merely chastising her for doing so is just away to discredit her points at the expense of a meaningful conversation about something of real consequence which is race relations.

Because that's how she framed it.
She could have written something similar to what Chomsky writes in his criticism of imperialism, she chose to say that "all white people" engage in "racial violence" by "existing as a race".

 

[Carolina Red]

Could you highlight the part where she says all white people are racist, because I can't see it.

That's because you are choosing not to. I can't help you there.

 

[villain]

The essence of what she's saying in my opinion:

• White imperialism has been responsible for the greatest aggregate of violence against people of all colours

George Carlin essentially said the same thing and he's regarded as being one of the great social commentators in modern popular culture

• That every white person enjoys white privilege and is either ignorant to it or doesn't care enough to resolve it any meaningful way

On the whole a fair point because it's true about the vast majority of whites but mostly because who is going to take it upon themselves to change a social dynamic this entrenched and abundant? Where the hell would you begin, black people have been trying for at least the past 50/60 years and arguably gone backwards

Delivering her comments at a time when we (the west) are still engaged in military interventions throughout the world that atleast subtly oppress their people and whilst The western superpower elected a man who is clearly for racism or at the very least inequality, who made ambigious comments that did not in any meaningful way condemn the recent events in America that show that racism is still an underlying and widespread issue in America and the west in general.

Despite the larger and salient points she's making, it seems alot of people in this thread want to read into what she said as being a personal attack when even if that is the case, merely chastising her for doing so is just away to discredit her points at the expense of a meaningful conversation about something of real consequence which is race relations.

Excellent post

 

[Moved To Differently]

Come on man, she actually specifically said "ALL white people" then went on to rant about how we are racist deep down.

How is that not a sackable offence in any job?



Is it also valid then to say ALL white people do that too?

You are dangerously close to defending racist comments here mate.

I'm not saying she shouldn't have been sacked and I'm saying that the overwhelming majority of white people do that.

 

[Redlambs]

The essence of what she's saying in my opinion:

• White imperialism has been responsible for the greatest aggregate of violence against people of all colours

George Carlin essentially said the same thing and he's regarded as being one of the great social commentators in modern popular culture

• That every white person enjoys white privilege and is either ignorant to it or doesn't care enough to resolve it any meaningful way

On the whole a fair point because it's true about the vast majority of whites but mostly because who is going to take it upon themselves to change a social dynamic this entrenched and abundant? Where the hell would you begin, black people have been trying for at least the past 50/60 years and arguably gone backwards

Delivering her comments at a time when we (the west) are still engaged in military interventions throughout the world that atleast subtly oppress their people and whilst The western superpower elected a man who is clearly for racism or at the very least inequality, who made ambigious comments that did not in any meaningful way condemn the recent events in America that show that racism is still an underlying and widespread issue in America and the west in general.

Despite the larger and salient points she's making, it seems alot of people in this thread want to read into what she said as being a personal attack when even if that is the case, merely chastising her for doing so is just away to discredit her points at the expense of a meaningful conversation about something of real consequence which is race relations.

That's great and all, but she was sacked for her actual words. Which included racism.

To claim otherwise is just trying to defend racism because it happens to be from the mouth of a black woman. In fact, she's half white, so maybe that's just the racist side!

 

[Moved To Differently]

Are you on a wind up?

She actually said "ALL" and even captalised it for fecks sake

She said 'racial violence' and then 'All white people'. There is a difference between racism and racialism and you can derive many meanings from the term 'racial violence'. 'Racial violence' could even be the racial violation of ignoring others' egregious racism.

 

[Carolina Red]

She said 'racial violence' and then 'All white people'. There is a difference between racism and racialism and you can derive many meanings from the term 'racial violence'. 'Racial violence' could even be the racial violation of ignoring others' egregious racism.

ra·cial·ism
ˈrāSHəˌlizəm/
noun

1. another term for racism.

 

[Moved To Differently]

That's great and all, but she was sacked for her actual words. Which included racism.

To claim otherwise is just trying to defend racism because it happens to be from the mouth of a black woman. In fact, she's half white, so maybe that's just the racist side!

Why are you so invested in the fact that someone you will never meet was sacked? That's not my point, for the third and final time no person could argue against her sacking. That's not what I'm disputing, my point is that she's making larger points that people in this thread seem to want to ignore either because they have some vested interest in talking purely and simply about the fact someone was sacked for making racial comments or because they're so close-minded that the perceived personal attack is the most important talking point.

 

[berbatrick]

She said 'racial violence' and then 'All white people'. There is a difference between racism and racialism and you can derive many meanings from the term 'racial violence'. 'Racial violence' could even be the racial violation of ignoring others' egregious racism.

What does "ignoring others' egregious racism" mean practically?

 

[fellaini's barber]

I'm more worried about shagging her by mistake

 

[Redlambs]

Excellent post

It is indeed.

However, it's not the correct reply to why his earlier points keep getting picked up on.

We were discussing her actual words and the reason she got sacked. At least I was. This isn't really about white people being offended and having to right to be and all that, it's simply a case of being sacked for making racist comments. Which she clearly did, and continues to stand by.

But the thread is clearly going the way of all the other on race, it'll end up being word for word the same. Shame, but that's just how it goes I guess.

She said 'racial violence' and then 'All white people'. There is a difference between racism and racialism and you can derive many meanings from the term 'racial violence'. 'Racial violence' could even be the racial violation of ignoring others' egregious racism.

That's ok then. You'd better get on to L'Oreal and their lawyers and tell them they just read her words wrong!

Besides, you've actually just proved my post was correct anyway. She did say "ALL", which was what you were denying. Now you've changed the debate, you can continue that path with anyone else who wishes to bother.

 

[Moved To Differently]

ra·cial·ism
ˈrāSHəˌlizəm/
noun

1. another term for racism.

So if I ask someone what their 'racial heritage' is, I'm asking them in what way they are racist?

 

[VeevaVee]

Part of me thinks that if everyone shut the feck up and we just condemned people who are actively racist, we'd get rid of racism quicker. Instead of constantly bringing up a divide and trying to condemn everyone for everything.

 

[Redlambs]

Why are you so invested in the fact that someone you will never meet was sacked? That's not my point, for the third and final time no person could argue against her sacking. That's not what I'm disputing, my point is that she's making larger points that people in this thread seem to want to ignore either because they have some vested interest in talking purely and simply about the fact someone was sacked for making racial comments or because they're so close-minded that the perceived personal attack is the most important talking point.

I didn't even bother to read this post past the first line. I thought you were better than that tbh.

Invested

 

[Moved To Differently]

It is indeed.

However, it's not the correct reply to why his earlier points keep getting picked up on.

We were discussing her actual words and the reason she got sacked. At least I was. This isn't really about white people being offended and having to right to be and all that, it's simply a case of being sacked for making racist comments. Which she clearly did, and continues to stand by.

But the thread is clearly going the way of all the other on race, it'll end up being word for word the same. Shame, but that's just how it goes I guess.



That's ok then. You'd better get on to L'Oreal and their lawyers and tell them they just read her words wrong!

Besides, you've actually just proved my post was correct anyway. She did say "ALL", which was what you were denying. Now you've changed the debate, you can continue that path with anyone else who wishes to bother.

No I refuted your claim that she said all white people are racist, which she did not say.

 

[2 man midfield]

The essence of what she's saying in my opinion:

• White imperialism has been responsible for the greatest aggregate of violence against people of all colours

George Carlin essentially said the same thing and he's regarded as being one of the great social commentators in modern popular culture

No-one is arguing against this. Seriously, check back through the posts in this thread, mine included. That's not even up for debate, and if she'd left it that like Carlin did and not gone on to prove herself a racist idiot then she'd still have a job.

• That every white person enjoys white privilege and is either ignorant to it or doesn't care enough to resolve it any meaningful way

On the whole a fair point because it's true about the vast majority of whites but mostly because who is going to take it upon themselves to change a social dynamic this entrenched and abundant? Where the hell would you begin, black people have been trying for at least the past 50/60 years and arguably gone backwards

White privilege is silly to me. Humans are much more complex than this. On my way to work this morning I saw a black woman in a suit ignore a homeless white guy asking for change. Still, I bet he's glad he's privileged though, otherwise that might really get him down.

 

[Moved To Differently]

Part of me thinks that if everyone shut the feck up and we just condemned people who are actively racist, we'd get rid of racism quicker. Instead of constantly bringing up a divide and trying to condemn everyone for everything.

In one respect that's true but if 'shutting up' is tantamount to doing nothing when you believe something is wrong then you know what they say happens when that becomes the case.

 

[Carolina Red]

So if I ask someone what their 'racial heritage' is, I'm asking them in what way they are racist?

Don't look at me, I didn't write the Oxford dictionary.

 

[Moved To Differently]

Don't look at me, I didn't write the Oxford dictionary.

Neither did she.

 

[Carolina Red]

No-one is arguing against this. Seriously, check back through the posts in this thread, mine included. That's not even up for debate, and if she'd left it that like Carlin did and not gone on to prove herself a racist idiot then she'd still have a job.

White privilege is silly to me. Humans are much more complex than this. On my way to work this morning I saw a black woman in a suit ignore a homeless white guy asking for change. Still, I bet he's glad he's privileged though, otherwise that might really get him down.

Exactly

 

[Redlambs]

Part of me thinks that if everyone shut the feck up and we just condemned people who are actively racist, we'd get rid of racism quicker. Instead of constantly bringing up a divide and trying to condemn everyone for everything.

Probably true tbf.

No I refuted your claim that she said all white people are racist, which she did not say.

No, you were reading her actual words, then was flip-flopping all over the place about what she did and didn't say. Just because you interpret her words differently, it maters not a jot. She was fired for racist comments, you've said a few times now you didn't disagree with that sacking have you not?

So if, in your mind she wasn't being racist, then how come you agree with her being sacked?

 

[Lentwood]

I love the Caf, have seen so many cretinous opinions about this story today. Most of the opinions expressed here and well thought out and argued even if I dont agree with them all.

Anyway, my two cents is this - I don't consider myself to be a racist at all. I actually think I am very tolerant and open minded about pretty much anything.

However, this story made me think about that. We live in a world where our schools and universities are mixed race and sex but predominantly ran by white males. Our biggest and most successful companies employ millions of non-whites and women but are run mainly by white males. Most of our senior police chiefs and army officers are white males. The Football League is full of black/asian players but 95% of the managers and owners are white males. Our TV personalities and broadcasters/media are usually white males (apart from the odd "token totty" on stuff like Sky Sports)

Perhaps most significantly, most of the world's wealthiest people are white males and their influence is huge. How can we have equality amongst races when wealth has been concentrated mainly in the hands of whites for centuries?

So as a white British male my first reaction was her comment is out of line. But actually is it? And are we all racist without even knowing it, because we are conditioned that way from birth? The comments sections on all of the Social Media stories about this suggest to me actually we DO have a big problem caused by ignorance

 

[Carolina Red]

Neither did she.

You posted that there was a difference between "racism" and "racialism"... I posted that the dictionary disagrees with your assessment.

Also, you've gone on to act like most in this thread are ignoring the historically accurate part of what she said regarding European and American colonialism and exploitation. We've not done that, and you've responded to the posts that prove it (mine included). We just don't buy the rest of the crap she decided to add to it.