On NPR yesterday, one of the journalists was discussing that there were rumors that Assad has been offered asylum in Russia and Iran. He's also supposedly moved $6bn of Syrian assets to Russia so it would be untouchable.
Livestream out of Syria
- Thread starter ooeat0meoo
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If he can discuss rumors, so can Bob.
Simply amazing. Kids are being slaughtered and some on here are bothered about US-made anti-tank missiles.
No, remember, the kids being slaughtered are also terrorists.
Could they zoom in a bit more? I couldn't quite see the atoms in the tube.
They are American atoms, and that's the point.
If we know they're American atoms, then we can't know where they are because of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle. That's just science.
There's a lot of this 'science' business going around these days. You better watch yourself.
No, it will not be on C-SPAN... My roll is mostly a listening. In this crowd, I have to carefully listen for who is coming to the table as a special-interest individual with an agenda and the pick out the best information. ~ Oh, and take heat for reporting on stuff that some of the special interest folks don't care to be made public. The last time I got put in the hot-seat from reporting on a MEK (Iranian group at a rally ~ Long story not worth telling)
It's all about sifting and learning my way through this mess. Even the special interest folks have something to teach me. It just isn't easy sitting there knowing that people are lying to me or the group, at times. The good thing is all the experience at poker through the years helps me to keep my cool.
The Syrian American groups have been very tight-lipped, recently. Things are very disorganized. There is probably massive infighting within the SNC, but nobody from within wants to talk about the specifics. Maybe the silence will be broken, this weekend. ...maybe not.
Has Syrian Scholes been posting here? I haven't heard from him lately.
For context, he used to provide constant updates about this in the newbies. Just hoping that he is still safe.
For context, he used to provide constant updates about this in the newbies. Just hoping that he is still safe.
yup, he posts in here. Stopped posting for a little while because of a couple of arguments/disagreements...but he posted 2-3 days ago.
I'v been recently to some protests around Damascus in Al-Swaiqa, Kafarsouseh, Al-Midan, only one of those places is protected by the Free Syrian Army, Kafarsouseh, you can see them as you get to the square of the protest, they hide there face so no one would recognize them, people cheer them so I think they can't be doing much wrong if people are happy with them, right?
Videos of the recent protests I've been to:
Kafarsouseh:
This is on 5-6-2012:
This is on 7-6-2012:
Al-Midan(the one I enjoyed the most, very full of suspense, and security forces might attack any second)
This is on 3-6-2012:
Al-Swaykah:
Videos of the recent protests I've been to:
Kafarsouseh:
This is on 5-6-2012:
This is on 7-6-2012:
Al-Midan(the one I enjoyed the most, very full of suspense, and security forces might attack any second)
This is on 3-6-2012:
Al-Swaykah:
Unbelievably brave on your part, Syrian Scholes. If you do topple Assad I hope you'll get the freedom you deserve rather than the mess the Egyptians got themselves into.
I also hope (though seriously doubt it) that such turn of events does not result in massacre of Alawite communities.
I also hope (though seriously doubt it) that such turn of events does not result in massacre of Alawite communities.
If Assad is removed, I can't see there being tons of reconciliation between the different sects and the Alawites if it's proven that they were behind the massacre in Houla and Al-Qubeir.
What 'mess' would that be then? An audacious go at democracy?
hmmm... for some odd reason you're not that supportive of a similar attempt at democracy in Syria RK. How about the MB taking over there too?
I support organic revolutions encompassing the vast majority of people in a particular country, more so if they adopt a secular ethos. You can't compare the events in Egypt with whats happening in Syria at the moment.
Plus, how many bloody revolutions have ended without a bit of bloodletting on the part of the victors. It doesn't make it right, but if Assad is toppled, it is par for the course that the Alawites will be in for a world of hurt for a little while.
The 'mess' that Egyptians have gotten themselves into will be significantly better for them in the long term and maybe even in the short term than the mess they were already in under Mubarak.
I agree with the rest of the sentiments though. I hope you and your countrymen can topple Assad Syrian Scholes, preferably through your own efforts and you get to sample freedom. I also hope, despite what they've been getting up to recently, the Alawites are not hurt too much post Assad's departure.
Of course you can't. The evil Mubarak did not order the murder of 15,000 people which is why he is dying in a cage right now. For that alone the vast majority of Syrians could well hand the bill to the Alawites and their minority alliance when Assad is toppled (nevermind decades of minority oppression).
I think you had a secular Egyption regime in your vision when trouble started there, but you'd agree that events have evolved differerntly and not as "organic" as you had expected since.
The evil Mubarak had spent the best part of 3 decades torturing, intimidating and humiliating those who dare dissent. And up to his last days he felt no remorse in murdering unarmed protesters...which leads to another difference between both sets of 'revolutions' - Mubarak was lucky enough not to face armed Islamist groups receiving funding from radical Islamic states, nor did he face Al-Qaeda bomb attacks on his capital city.
Its still as very much organic as it ever was - it did not require any foreign intervention and now they're holding democratic elections for the first time in their history all out of their own accord and struggle. Its not been a smooth or easy ride nor will it be in the coming years, but these things never are.
Mubarak did not face armed Islamist groups because he was wise enough to put them in prison in time. This is not about "luck" but leadership. Now the Egyptian people is in need of luck, partly because the "young, educated, secular revolutionists" have had their revolution hijacked.
The fact Mubarak did not have AQ attacks in his capital might have to do with him not playing with fire like Assad did across the Syrian-Iraqi border when it suited his regime's interests.
Erm...
If that's done through legitimate elections then it's called democracy...
..
Leadership? So 30 years of oppression, poverty and brutal crackdowns is good leadership...I dread to think what you'd consider to be poor leadership. Or was it the fact he was a compliant friend of Israel? The Egyptians have not had anything hijacked - the revolution has always maintained a largely secular nature, the only problem has been the electoral naivety of the Egyptian people who've split their vote amongst several secular candidates, meanwhile the Islamists have united under the MB and reactionaries have flocked to Moussa. But they're a young fledgling democracy, it should be given time to mature.
What are you surprised with? Syria has always been a regional client and military partner of Russia, its hardly surprising that the Russians are providing them with military gear.
I know that, as do most. It's incredibly bold/stupid for Russia to be so aggressively pursuing it.
Morally questionable perhaps, but definitely not stupid. They have a military base in Syria so they're going to do all in their power to maintain the current regime. Similarly, the Americans are providing arms to the brutal Bahraini regime which is currently murdering democratic, unarmed protesters. Its just how it is.
This was never black and white like the media would have you believe.
It's a bit early to hand titles. I'd patiently wait for a the next general elections before making a decision. As you may recall, Gazans also had democratic elections...once only.
Let's remind ourselves how flourishing Egypt was under his predecessors, one of which was a hero of yours. Look, I wouldn't like to live under a regime like Mubarak's but his wasn't any worse than some of your favourites and not different from many other Arab countries'.
It's the "copmliance with Israel" that irritated you, although that has more to do with his Arab foes' propaganda that real fact. Mubarak refused to visit Israel, allowed antisemitic media outlets to prosper and played a allowed arms-smuggling to the GS. What's called "compliance with Israel" in Syria and Lebanon is reluctance to maintain an armed dtruggle with Israel. Instead, Mubarak maintained peace and stability for his country brought by the courage of his predecessor. They both failed in transforming their country to a modern one, cut corruption thus allowing the masses to benefit from the prosperity peace could potentially bring and that's their main fault.
Tbf, the West setting conditions on the elected representatives of the people(that went far beyond what the PLO/Fatah faced) wasn't exactly playing fair was it?
Mind you, Hamas do anything but play fair...so it makes sense that everyone wasn't crazy about helping them out. But the fact remains, they faced hurdles from day 1.
Young and learning.
Have you talked to any Egyptians old enough to have lived under either of the other two dictators? Life was significantly better under the other two. They both had their faults, especially Nasser, who decimated agriculture, lost every war he fought and treated Egypt's Jews in a despicable manner. But both, according to Egyptians I have spoken to, had Egyptians living in far better conditions than they do now. Sure, you weren't exactly going to set up political parties under any of them and if you had a beard and dared to speak about politics or Islam, you'd be spending a few years in his interior ministry's torture cells (this seems to be acceptable to people though for some reason, such Muslims are not humans I guess?).
But they had food (Average wage now is 100 LE. Cost of a kilo of meat i around 70). They had housing (Many Egyptians live on rooftop dwellings, slums, on the street or in Pharonic tombs. Without sewage, electricity, water of course). They had more money (40% now live in absolute poverty). They had healthcare (the overwhelming majority of the country cannot access healthcare). They had a good education (now, if you don't have the money for a tutor, your child is going nowhere in life). They had job prospects (you can own a master's degree in Egypt and still be happy with a job cooking chicken in a kebab shop). They had less corruption. They had a less unequal society. They were still producing films and tv shows (ie culture). They weren't dying on Egypt's death boats and trains. And, unlike under his predecessors, torture and murder by the security services didn't come about at random and without provocation.
As for the compliance, no democratically elected leader in the Arab world would ever dream of maintaining the blockade on Gaza as Mubarak did.
He failed to cut corruption.
He was one of the main causes of corruption. Mubarak has many 'main faults'. He absolutely destroyed that country. Until the late 70s, most Egyptians didn't dream of leaving their homeland. Now most dream of finding any way out. Even risking their lives to do so. I'm not quite sure what you expect of Egypt? A flourishing, Western style democracy within 18 months? This is as ridiculous as the calls for 'gradual democracy' which in Egypt's case was to move the presidency to the even more corrupt Gamal Mubarak. Egypt was on the verge of being a Pharonic country again and replacing one average, corrupt man with an even more average, even more corrupt man. No problem though, they'd be on the gradual road to democracy!