Liverpool's squad - any interest?

M'n'M said:
Because it made me laugh. What do you think the definition of funny is?
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Something comical or humourous, which that wasn't.

It's not like he was saying he'd rather have Titus Bramble than them.

He was saying he'd rather have a young, fit, accomplished defender, playing at a higher level for a much better team.

Entirely logical, not at all funny.
 
It's not entirely ridiculous with the Evans claim. I'd personally say that he's about on par with Skrtel right now but will be much better than him. He's still got a far way to go till he's as good as Agger though.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Something comical or humourous, which that wasn't.

It's not like he was saying he'd rather have Titus Bramble than them.

He was saying he'd rather have a young, fit, accomplished defender, playing at a higher level for a much better team.

Entirely logical, not at all funny.
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Humour is an individual thing. You probably like Bill Bailey.
 
M'n'M said:
Humour is an individual thing. You probably like Bill Bailey.
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Give us a first eleven of Utd/Liverpool players to cheer us up M'n'M. I bet you can resist putting 5-6 liverpool players in it despite the 39 point gap. :p
 
Hey, the majority of this thread has been spot on. That one comment has made me laugh though. Sue me.
 
M'n'M said:
There is certainly a trimming of the wage bill going on which I'm ok with. As long as we are reinvesting any money received with sugar on top.
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Rumours that Bellamy is being let go(the times). Surprised at that. He is still usual in a squad role.
 
He certainly is but even last season we didn't see much of him after Christmas. A bit like Giggs. With him being at the Olympics this summer too he'll probably be dead on his feet when he gets back. Top player on his day with pace that we are sorely lacking but is £80k a week (wild guess) worth spending for 3 months of sub use? Not sure.

All I know is we better start seeing some incomings very soon.
 
Yep, that's funny too in fairness.

I assume from that you must have known Anderson was a fat waster from the day and hour he joined your club or like me did you get caught up in the excitement of the transfer window and initial promise of the player?
 
M'n'M said:
Yep, that's funny too in fairness.

I assume from that you must have known Anderson was a fat waster from the day and hour he joined your club or like me did you get caught up in the excitement of the transfer window and initial promise of the player?
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this quote gives me great hope that Anderson will have a great season.
 
I aim to please gregster.
 
M'n'M said:
Yep, that's funny too in fairness.

I assume from that you must have known Anderson was a fat waster from the day and hour he joined your club or like me did you get caught up in the excitement of the transfer window and initial promise of the player?
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If Anderson was a Liverpool player he'd be worshipped as a hero.

Multiple league medals, CL medal, several high profile performances in big games. Just the high profile performances are enough to get you legend status on Merseyside these days, never mind the medals which don't happen anymore.

He's not been anywhere near good enough for United up to now, but LFC fans who have idolised wasters as a matter of course for the smallest of contributions to the most minimal of success have no place taking aim at him.
 
No he wouldn't.

Champions League winner Djimi Traore and Igor Biscan. Doesn't make them individually good players.

A load of tosh. To whom do you think you're referring?

And that ignores my very obvious point that before he had even played a game I would bet that you were very excited about seeing him play for United and assuming/hoping he would be a superstar (as I was with Keane/Downing)
 
Give me one specific example of these Rafa players who are idolised as a matter of course but are undeserving in your opinion.
 
M'n'M said:
Give me one specific example of these Rafa players who are idolised as a matter of course but are undeserving in your opinion.
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Not a Rafa purchase, but along the same lines: I think Luis Suarez is idolised despite performing somewhat under par of what you'd expect from a £23 million pound player. His productivity has simply been underwhelming so far, as I'm sure you'd agree with.

Still, he's absolutely adored on Merseyside - and this despite being probably the most despicable player in the league since the PL's inception.

Explain that one to me, please?
 
marjen said:
Not a Rafa purchase, but along the same lines: I think Luis Suarez is idolised despite performing somewhat under par of what you'd expect from a £23 million pound player. His productivity has simply been underwhelming so far, as I'm sure you'd agree with.

Still, he's absolutely adored on Merseyside - and this despite being probably the most despicable player in the league since the PL's inception.

Explain that one to me, please?
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There may have been one or 2 distractions which might have taken his mind off the ball so to speak. Self inflicted or not.
 
M'n'M said:
Idolised? No chance.

Under utilised? Perhaps.

Try harder.
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He is held in very high regard for very little.

A couple of stand-out performances where he scored a couple of hat-tricks interspersed by lots and lots of average games, and no medals.

The point is, you'd worship Anderson. He'd be a Kop legend if he'd been involved in winning several league and European titles. He's not been anywhere near good enough for United, but he'd be worshipped at Anfield.

Luis Garcia has cult status because a few decent performances in the CL in 2005, despite being largely average and often poor.
 
Maxi has a knack of scoring goals when he played so when we're struggling to score it should be obvious, even to you, why some fans would rather have him in the team than not. But I can assure you he is not "hero-worshipped" and splits the fanbase down the middle.

As for Anderson, all I can say is that you are wrong. I'm sure you're very used to hearing that though. I'll show you Charlie Adam as an example.

I'll give you Garcia although I disagree that he was often poor.
 
I'm actually agreeing with M'nM here(oh God that's one thing I never thought I would say..).

Anderson obviously wouldn't be worshipped at Anfield. Just look at Lucas Leiva, who was absolutely hammered until a season ago, and there are still people who don't want him in the side, even though he's performed much better than Ando these last couple of years.

It goes without saying that a team finishing around 7th or 8th sets their bar lower when it comes to "idolizing" players than a team fighting for PL medals. I assure you, had Liverpool won the league last season, they wouldn't have been happy with a contribution such as Anderson's on the back of what he's done before that. So the whole "medals"-argument is a stupid and irrelevant point, Kraftwerker.

Having said all that, I do think the level of idolizing is somewhat distorted in the LFC-fanbase - Suarez being one example, King Kenny another. I am perfectly able to say that Sir Alex, for instance, acts like a twat when he does, even though the man's probably the biggest legend alive in the game today. But so many LFC-supporters seem unable to accept that "their" players or people affiliated with the club are wrong, even in the slightest - Suarez again being the prime example.
 
M'n'M said:
Maxi has a knack of scoring goals when he played so when we're struggling to score it should be obvious, even to you, why some fans would rather have him in the team than not. But I can assure you he is not "hero-worshipped" and splits the fanbase down the middle.

As for Anderson, all I can say is that you are wrong. I'm sure you're very used to hearing that though. I'll show you Charlie Adam as an example.

I'll give you Garcia although I disagree that he was often poor.
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Charlie Adam has achieved nothing though.

If he was a member of a team that won multiple league titles and a CL title they'd be writing poems about him for 20 years on Merseyside.

Just face it, Anderson would be idolised on Merseyside. He's like the midfield version of Luis Garcia except with far more medals. Good in patches but nowhere near consistent enough, some big one-off performances but often average.

You idolise racists who have dragged the club's name through the dirt and won nothing. A likeable and very successful player medal-wise would be a no-brainer.
 
marjen said:
I'm actually agreeing with M'nM here(oh God that's one thing I never thought I would say..).

Anderson obviously wouldn't be worshipped at Anfield. Just look at Lucas Leiva, who was absolutely hammered until a season ago, and there are still people who don't want him in the side, even though he's performed much better than Ando these last couple of years.

It goes without saying that a team finishing around 7th or 8th sets their bar lower when it comes to "idolizing" players than a team fighting for PL medals. I assure you, had Liverpool won the league last season, they wouldn't have been happy with a contribution such as Anderson's on the back of what he's done before that. So the whole "medals"-argument is a stupid and irrelevant point, Kraftwerker.

Having said all that, I do think the level of idolizing is somewhat distorted in the LFC-fanbase - Suarez being one example, King Kenny another. I am perfectly able to say that Sir Alex, for instance, acts like a twat when he does, even though the man's probably the biggest legend alive in the game today. But so many LFC-supporters seem unable to accept that "their" players or people affiliated with the club are wrong, even in the slightest - Suarez again being the prime example.
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My point is actually that players can forge a reputation at Liverpool based on very little.

And certainly being a member of very successful teams would be more than enough to qualify them for hero status, especially given how few successful players they have.

Anderson would be worshipped for his 07/08 contribution alone, the same way Garcia is. I don't doubt it for a second.
 
Kraftwerker said:
My point is actually that players can forge a reputation at Liverpool based on very little.

And certainly being a member of very successful teams would be more than enough to qualify them for hero status, especially given how few successful players they have.

Anderson would be worshipped for his 07/08 contribution alone, the same way Garcia is. I don't doubt it for a second.
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Every clubs fan base is guilty of idolizing certain players rightly or wrongly. I agree there's a kind of mentality with Liverpool-supporters to stand by their players even when blatantly in the wrong, which I struggle to see in that extent with fans of other clubs.

But come on, Liverpool's fans hated Leiva even when he started to perform well as a CM.
 
marjen said:
Every clubs fan base is guilty of idolizing certain players rightly or wrongly. I agree there's a kind of mentality with Liverpool-supporters to stand by their players even when blatantly in the wrong, which I struggle to see in that extent with fans of other clubs.

But come on, Liverpool's fans hated Leiva even when he started to perform well as a CM.
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Lucas has gone from being one of their most under-rated players to one of their most over-rated. The swing in opinion was ridiculous. He was nowhere near as bad as they thought and is nowhere near as good as they think.

He's also not been a member of any successful Liverpool teams. If he'd been involved in a Liverpool team that replicated what we did in 07/08, rest assured, his anointment as the second coming would have been a lot quicker coming.

Another good example is Berbatov. Imagine if an LFC striker finished the season top scorer as Liverpool win the league. They'd rename the Kop after him. Something I often remind LFC fans off when they have a pop at him too.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Lucas has gone from being one of their most under-rated players to one of their most over-rated. The swing in opinion was ridiculous. He was nowhere near as bad as they thought and is nowhere near as good as they think.

He's also not been a member of any successful Liverpool teams. If he'd been involved in a Liverpool team that replicated what we did in 07/08, rest assured, his anointment as the second coming would have been a lot quicker coming.

Another good example is Berbatov. Imagine if an LFC striker finished the season top scorer as Liverpool win the league. They'd rename the Kop after him. Something I often remind LFC fans off when they have a pop at him too.
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I think it's partly natural that a club with as proud traditions and such a rich history cling onto every silver lining they have - we would probably do the same if we ended up like them for 20+ years.

If they somehow won the league next season, and their striker became the top scorer, then rightly they would adore him. It would be one hell of an achievement!

Don't you think Stoke City would enjoy a title win more than Manchester United fans next season?
 
marjen said:
I think it's partly natural that a club with as proud traditions and such a rich history cling onto every silver lining they have - we would probably do the same if we ended up like them for 20+ years.

If they somehow won the league next season, and their striker became the top scorer, then rightly they would adore him. It would be one hell of an achievement!

Don't you think Stoke City would enjoy a title win more than Manchester United fans next season?
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You essentially agree with me. I'm not interested in the reasons behind it, I'm just saying that's what would happen. Comparisons with Stoke are a little wide of the mark, as rightly or wrongly, LFC fans view their club as at least the equal of ours in terms of stature.

So I just get amused at LFC fans having a pop at certain members of our playing squad, who would be held in very high regard if they'd achieved what they did at Liverpool.
 
Kraftwerker said:
You essentially agree with me. I'm not interested in the reasons behind it, I'm just saying that's what would happen. Comparisons with Stoke are a little wide of the mark, as rightly or wrongly, LFC fans view their club as at least the equal of ours in terms of stature.

So I just get amused at LFC fans having a pop at certain members of our playing squad, who would be held in very high regard if they'd achieved what they did at Liverpool.
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If someone supporting LFC told me "Anderson's not good enough for United" - I'd say he would be just about right at the moment.

If someone supporting LFC said "Anderson's not good enough for Liverpool" - I'd probably argue that he's at least on a par with players like Henderson, Spearing and Adam, and probably better.

So them "having a pop" at our squad members must be seen in context - not only does a squad member have to be quite a lot better at football to play for United than Liverpool, on average, at this moment in time - supporting Liverpool would obviously make it difficult to acknowledge how good a member of Manchester United's squad is as well.

So I don't think it's having a pop at Anderson to say that he's not good enough for United - many of our own fans say so too.
 
marjen said:
If someone supporting LFC told me "Anderson's not good enough for United" - I'd say he would be just about right at the moment.

If someone supporting LFC said "Anderson's not good enough for Liverpool" - I'd probably argue that he's at least on a par with players like Henderson, Spearing and Adam, and probably better.

So them "having a pop" at our squad members must be seen in context - not only does a squad member have to be quite a lot better at football to play for United than Liverpool, on average, at this moment in time - supporting Liverpool would obviously make it difficult to acknowledge how good a member of Manchester United's squad is as well.

So I don't think it's having a pop at Anderson to say that he's not good enough for United - many of our own fans say so too.
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Calling him a fat waster or, for example, calling Berbatov a lazy waste of space is a little different to a diplomatic discussion about whether said player is good enough for United.

I appreciate what you're saying but it's not really relevant to where I was coming from. It's something I notice that amuses me, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less.
 
Back to Agger for a second, if he went to City (and stayed healthy) I think he'd take Toure's starting spot. He's just now coming into his prime and is a very good ball playing defender, with a great centre back mentality to boot.
 
Kraftwerker said:
Charlie Adam has achieved nothing though.

If he was a member of a team that won multiple league titles and a CL title they'd be writing poems about him for 20 years on Merseyside.

Just face it, Anderson would be idolised on Merseyside. He's like the midfield version of Luis Garcia except with far more medals. Good in patches but nowhere near consistent enough, some big one-off performances but often average.

You idolise racists who have dragged the club's name through the dirt and won nothing. A likeable and very successful player medal-wise would be a no-brainer.
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Was does that have to do with the cost of a pint of milk? Much as it pains me to say it we haven't won anything of note for a fair amount of time, does that mean we dont' "idolise" (to use your sensationalism) our players. The number of medals Anderson has won as part of a very good team bear no relation whatsoever to whether he is individually good enough. John O'Shea is also a multiple PL & CL winner. Do you idolise him? I very much doubt it.

Charlie Adam isn't idolised beccause he is just not very good. Anderson woudl be viewed exactly the same but having cost more than twice as much.

But anyway you managed to sidetrack the conversation rightly to deflect from the fact you haven't a clue.

You mocked me for making a prediction that both Keane and Downing would be successful at Liverpool. This prediction was made without the benefit of hindsight. I pointed out that you would have had the same excitement about an £18m Brazilian "superstar" only to find out later (with the benefit of hindsight) that you had in fact signed Whoopi Goldberg.
 
marjen said:
King Kenny another.
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How VERY dare you ;)

Go and have a look at Kenny's record a sboth a player and manager then come back and tell me why he shouldn't be idolised.

Edit: In fact, don't bother, there isn't even a discussion to be had.
 
Supporters in 'our players are better than your players' shocker.

In other news, Liverpool are shit.
 
Cheesy said:
It's not entirely ridiculous with the Evans claim. I'd personally say that he's about on par with Skrtel right now but will be much better than him. He's still got a far way to go till he's as good as Agger though.
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I hardly think the opinion that Evans is currently ahead of Skrtel is funny. Both Played 27 games in the league for their team last year? Evans' team finished 37 points ahead of Skrtel's And conceded less goals. Neither was protected by a good midfield screen.
 
M'n'M said:
How VERY dare you ;)

Go and have a look at Kenny's record a sboth a player and manager then come back and tell me why he shouldn't be idolised.

Edit: In fact, don't bother, there isn't even a discussion to be had.
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Of course he's idolised. Rightly. As is Ferguson. My point was that if Ferguson acts like a twat, I'm more than willing to admit it(mostly). Like, for instance, regarding his comments to the press about "real supporters".

But while King Kenny wears a "Free Suarez" t-shirt like some rebellious teen, and acts like a 12-year old in interviews with the press, Liverpool-fans rallied behind him like some kind of righteous martyr swimming against the endless tide of United and FA conspiracies. It took a forced apology ordered by the owners before Liverpool-fans could say anything negative about his comments during Suarez-gate, and even then they hailed him for "apologizing even though Evra and United were at fault".

My point is great achievements in the past doesn't mean you have to idolise everything said person do. And Liverpool-fans DO seem rather prone to this sort of behaviour.
 
Bebe said:
Back to Agger for a second, if he went to City (and stayed healthy) I think he'd take Toure's starting spot. He's just now coming into his prime and is a very good ball playing defender, with a great centre back mentality to boot.
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Toure doesn't really have a starting spot though. Lescott and Kompany are first choice with Toure back-up.

Would Agger want to go to City to be back-up? Also, £20m+ is a lot of money to spend on a 'squad rotation' player...
 
M'n'M said:
Was does that have to do with the cost of a pint of milk? Much as it pains me to say it we haven't won anything of note for a fair amount of time, does that mean we dont' "idolise" (to use your sensationalism) our players. The number of medals Anderson has won as part of a very good team bear no relation whatsoever to whether he is individually good enough. John O'Shea is also a multiple PL & CL winner. Do you idolise him? I very much doubt it.

Charlie Adam isn't idolised beccause he is just not very good. Anderson woudl be viewed exactly the same but having cost more than twice as much.

But anyway you managed to sidetrack the conversation rightly to deflect from the fact you haven't a clue.

You mocked me for making a prediction that both Keane and Downing would be successful at Liverpool. This prediction was made without the benefit of hindsight. I pointed out that you would have had the same excitement about an £18m Brazilian "superstar" only to find out later (with the benefit of hindsight) that you had in fact signed Whoopi Goldberg.
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I've already said Anderson has not been good enough for United.

Charlie Adam isn't idolised, because he's shit and has no success to his name. Not even a few stand-out performances which contributed to success, the minimum requirement to get you legend status at Anfield (Luis Garcia).

Anderson would not be viewed the same if he had achieved what he has at United, at Liverpool. You'd love him, as you do people like Luis Garcia, who were mostly average, but had some stand-out performances in one or two successful seasons. Typically that's not enough at United, but when success is few and far between, you'll take anything.

John O'Shea is held in high esteem by most sensible United fans for his solid and dependable contribution to our success, and is another good example of what I'm talking about, as he's another who LFC fans liked to make snidey comments about.

If John O'Shea played for Liverpool, and had won everything he did, making 40+ appearances a season, like he did for United, he'd be revered. There's simply no doubt about it. In terms of talent he's only one level below clogger Carragher, who is probably one of the biggest LFC legends in modern times.

The fact is, it's funny when people like you take the piss out of these players, who would be LFC legends or at least held in very high regard if they'd done the same at your club. That's what amuses me.
 
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