You get my point ya divvy.
Liverpool 2018/19
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You get my point ya divvy.
Well, Sir Alex Ferguson was a winner. A proper football man, a proper leader, and a proper winner. I mean, I doesn't mean I hate him any less, but that's football; you can respect and be objective whilst still being a fan and hating. So, for me, I think that he would have done well. That said, I think it's fair to say he should have done better in Europe.
Depends what we mean by the "old format" here though, doesn't it? The original format of the European Cup was straight knockout for however many teams were in it. In fact, from its inception in 1955, right through to 1991, the competition consisted solely of knockout rounds. Only the 1991/92 season featured a group stage, and after that it was the Champions League. Historically, the European Cup format is remembered as being a pure knockout competition for the champions of UEFA nations. With that being the case, how are United getting knocked out in the group stage, on away goals no less?
Of course, possibly our greatest achievement came off the back of the rule change to allow non-champions in. We wouldn't have been in the competition in 1998/99 if the format hadn't changed, and the same is true for your lot in 2004/05.
In fact, since they started allowing non-champions in from 1997/98 onwards (21 completed editions of the tournament), only 9 have been won by teams entering a champions of their respective country. 8 have been won by teams entering as 2nd placed runners-up, 2 by 3rd placed runners-up, and 2 by 4th placed runners-up. In the last 10 editions of the tournament, just 3 have been won by champions.
It’s difficult to agree with your argument when you say ‘and only played at most one or 2 of the top teams to do so, with the rest of the opposition being objectively poor’ - Objectively very poor based on what exactly?
Let’s be clear, you’re trying to undermine ether directly or indirectly what they achieved.
That’s natural, but if it was so easy to win, how come only Liverpool and Forest were the only British teams to win it more than once until it changed its format in 1993?
Teams then were at a certain level, and teams are now at a certain
level, and it’s not for us now to say who was great and who was not great In terms of the ‘objective’ level.
Brugges for instance had a great team then, and so did Inter Milan, Benfica, Roma and other teams also, such as Borussia Munhengladbach. How would we look back at Porto winning it recently in 30 years time, when trends and teams grow and change, or how we will view other teams such as PSG and Monaco?
UTD, for instance, would not have even competed in 1999 if the same format existed, and would not have been able to lose their first 2 games and still not get knocked out, as was the case when they won it.
To win pre Champions League, you had to be consistent for 2 years, first winning your own league, and then beating other league winners, in a knockout competition, without the comfort blanket of a group to fall back on, where you can progress without winning a single game. You can also learn lose games and progress.
I wish you lot would bore-off with this group stage bollocks. The group stage replaced the absolute waste of time first round that used to be in the old format, in which you'd play someone utterly shite and batter them over two legs. After that you're in the last 16, except it was a much weaker last 16 than you'd get now.
I can say the teams were objectively poor because they were. They were teams from weak footballing nations that weren't up to much themselves. It's not a hard concept to grasp. If they weren't objectively poor, UEFA wouldn't have made steps to make the competition more competitive by filtering them out in the earlier rounds like they do now.
To win the European Cup you had to win your domestic league the year before, which was possibly the hardest part of the whole thing.
I don't know why you lot get so wound up about it if you don't care. You've got your 5 European Cups, no one can take them off you, regardless of what format you won them in. The whole reason this debate started was because one of your deluded lot stated with absolute certainty that you'd have won just as many if the competition was as hard to win as it is now, which is nothing short of daft.
Liverpool benefitting from winning the competition in an easier format doesn't mean they weren't still one of, if not the best team in Europe in that period. I don't think anyone's disputing that. The point is that if the format was as it is now, you're far more likely to have been one of the best teams in that period, but only managing to win two, rather than the four you did win.
Why are you so precious about it if you all truly believe it was just as hard to win?
At Alex.
The old format I mean before the Champions League..
The old format I mean before the Champions League..
I didn't say it was a fact. I said it was more likely that you wouldn't have won four in that time if the format was different, but think you'd have won more than one in that period, so settled on two. You might have won none, you might still have won four, we don't know. I just think it's fairly clear that all the evidence points toward winning four being highly unlikely.
So the straight knockout format then? Meaning a group stage exit (on away goals) would be impossible?
@Alex99 don't get me started on the backpass rule.
It's no coincidence they have been utterly toothless since it's inception. Talk about boring boring José...
It's no coincidence they have been utterly toothless since it's inception. Talk about boring boring José...
Eh ?
I was being hypothetical and rehashing a post from a Manc from a few years ago.
Stop going on the hunt.
Weird thing to post though
And great logic and maths.
We won four under a different format so you halved it.
Ok. United won one under the old format so if it was under the new format youse only won half a European Cup .
How's that ?
We won four under a different format so you halved it.
Ok. United won one under the old format so if it was under the new format youse only won half a European Cup .
How's that ?
I for one respect Fergie . He came across bitter sometines and was a good head worker too. I think his hatred for Liverpool came from us twatting Aberdeen in 1980/81. He was also straight on the phone to Kenny after Hillsborough.
He was the last of the Old School managers.
& why are you going to all the trouble to prove otherwise ? The thing is fellah, you can post all you want about how things would have been different if there'd have been a different structure back in the 70's & 80's. But at the end of day our European success during that period was based on one great manager (Bill Shankly) laying the foundations, & then another (Bob Paisley) building a couple of great teams that went on to winning 4 European Cups in 8 years. I've already stated that by winning 2 UEFA Cups in 1973 & 1976 we showed we could beat the 2nd & 3rd best teams from other countries. & then we went on to win 4 European Cups by beating the champions. So rather than spend copious amounts of time posting about how things would have been different if.......Just accept that Bob Paisley was the key component & architect for those 4 wins. The team he left when he retired in 1983 only had one player in it (Phil Neal) that played in the 1977 final. The following season that side not only won The European Cup, but they also won the league, & the League Cup. That's how f**king good they were, & that's how f**king good he was. Alex Ferguson claimed himself that United should have won more CL's under his watch, & I fully agree with him. But at least he had the good grace not to try & blame other factors. Maybe you should take a leaf out of his book.
Absolutely spot on. Taking the football rivalry out of it for a moment Fergie is from the same working class left wing old skool as Shanks, who he strongly admired. From a personal perspective that makes him sound in my book - I hope his recovery continues well.
I'm sure he looks back and thinks he should have won one or two more CL's. His real opportunity to add to his total was in the 90s and early 00's when no team was dominant. But by the time he really mastered Europe he was unlucky enough to come up against Pep's Barca, arguably the best club side of the modern era.
It's impossible to know how many CL's our 70s/80s sides would have won had the format been different but as well as it being more difficult it's also worth pointing out that we would have had 3 extra years where we would have qualified as top 4. So maybe we would have won none during that period but also we could have won 7! Utd would also have qualified a few more times, although I'm not sure that you would have won it as you didn't fair well in the old UEFA cup and CWC during that time.
Anyway, although its fun to trade tribal blows, its all hypothetical and we'll never know. Right now as far as Europe goes I'm just hoping that PAOK can do us a favour and get us into Pot 2 for the draw next week.
^^^
There's a documentry somewhere about Shanks , Busby and Jock Stein .
This is all I could find.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/33205762
There's a documentry somewhere about Shanks , Busby and Jock Stein .
This is all I could find.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/scotland/33205762
Why do you type out youse? It's two more letters to spell a something that isn't a word.
I'm not being funny or trying to be rude it's a genuine question.
The Liverpool boom and bust season cycle graphic should be sticky at the top of this thread. People (and especially Liverpool supporters) are following it to a t so far (again 
)
)When there's no fun or laughter talking about your own team, it sure is good, that you can come to this thread to be cheered up
Mourinho, Sanchez, Martial, fullbacks, Woodward, CB's, signings, etc., etc.. I can appreciate that it takes a good long laugh now and then before going back discussing these matters.
feck knows if Iam being honest. Maybe an Irish thing ? I really dont know . One thing I know is though is being from Liverpool and born and bread we are cocky and like to be different and we are different . We have swagger , We have attitude , belief and humour. A sense of ' we're all in this together let's laugh '. We are different through so many routes . Everyone knows by now that . The docks have played a part in us being us . Nobody will ever get ' us ' unless your'e from Liverpool.
' We ' pulled up the draw bridge years ago.
I see that Bettison has just been let off the hook.
JFT 96
When there's no fun or laughter talking about your own team, it sure is good, that you can come to this thread to be cheered up
Mourinho, Sanchez, Martial, fullbacks, Woodward, CB's, signings, etc., etc.. I can appreciate that it takes a good long laugh now and then before going back discussing these matters.
I'm from Billinge. My mother and grandmother were from Bootle. My uncle married someone from there too.
I do know that at their wedding her uncle told me to watch his jacket and not to steal his money (to which I replied I'm not a scouser ) and they got in a massive fight between themselves and my family.
They weren't all in it together then or laughing.
But my two best friends are scousers and they are very much how you describe yourself so I'll give you the benifit of the doubt
I'm from Billinge. My mother and grandmother were from Bootle. My uncle married someone from there too.
I do know that at their wedding her uncle told me to watch his jacket and not to steal his money (to which I replied I'm not a scouser ) and they got in a massive fight between themselves and my family.
They weren't all in it together then or laughing.
But my two best friends are scousers and they are very much how you describe yourself so I'll give you the benifit of the doubt
Them Scouse jokes get boring after time being honest . I've travelled a lot and the usual bellened pops up with one . It says more about the person and there's a few divvies on here that gives me a great insight to their personalties when they come up with their usual stereotypical pigeon holed shite.
I mean ... kin ' ell.
Give some respect to a city that gave youse Ken Dodd.
Them scouse jokes were real if you mean me.
My uncle and aunt had Liverpool for the cup and Everton for the cup on each side of their car. Make no mistake it was a family divided
I think they'll get 6 or 7 today, they've got so much going forward - horrible to watch the scousers looking so good and always hope for a decent result but cant see Brighton getting anything unfortunately.
Oi!! I postulated a complex theory about the LFC support still being a little bit uniquely rooted in the original footy supporting classes & you called me a couple of rude names if I remember correctly. I was going to plead that the words ''and a bit thick'' were an accidental addition to the premise I was putting forward but they weren't tbh.
But anyway I did wonder whether the phenomenal Euro success (is it 5 times for the Big One now? I lose track) was related to this 'us vs. them' stuff. The Rest of the World hates us thing & so on whereas the Utd schtick is as the Great Ambassadors & Trailblazers so we have to be a bit nice to the Forrins & they get the odd penalty & decision on our ground & stuff.
I even remember this guy doing a couple of your big European games, ffs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Prokop
(kinell, it was a long tedious road to setting that gag up, innit?)
I was meaning stuff like..
I'd be on a beach in Thailand or somewhere and someone cottons on to my accent and goes....
What do you call a...
Guy with phlegm in his throat? You're from Liverpool!!
On a beach in Florida.. Where are you from? "Texas" yeah I figured. This guy is from Texas
The bank put my address as Texas until I told them I was from the UK.
The bank put my address as Texas until I told them I was from the UK.
People make fun of him here, but they got the manager we should have really pushed for.
Keep arguing about him not winning anything yet. But he's much closer to it than us when he makes them play like that.
Keep arguing about him not winning anything yet. But he's much closer to it than us when he makes them play like that.
They are making this match look effortless compared to us.
Woody did really push for him though, promised Klopp an adult version of Disneyland and all.
In fairness guys it's at Anfield and we barely have bad results there nowadays. A bit of knee jerk going on here because I'm pretty sure United will also beat Brighton at home.
True. Change in game plan for Brighton too. Against Utd they were pressing the midfield and winning the battle. Here moment Liv has possession they are dropping back. Sensible.
They still have weaknesses in their team.
They definitely look City's best challengers.
That’s no losses at home in 23 games, unless I’m mistaken, and the most clean Premier League clean sheets in 2018. Not bad a for a ‘dodgy’ defence.
A bit dicey at times today, but it’s been said a 1000 times before. Its about winning, even when you’re not playing well.
This teams getting stronger month by month.
A bit dicey at times today, but it’s been said a 1000 times before. Its about winning, even when you’re not playing well.
This teams getting stronger month by month.
Sometimes the 1nils that you win are the sweetest because even though you didn't play well, if you can improve you smash the next team and build momentum again.
I'd only judge them after 12-15 games. Start of the season, they are full of energy , press well and win the ball. Let other competitions kick in and lets see what happens.
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