Him being your most advanced makes him your striker. It's hard to compare between eras anyway, especially on pure stats. The football I see today is very different from what I grew up watching in the early 2000s. I think (no stats to prove it) we have seen a growing divide between top and lower level teams and growing points totals/goal returns for those at the top, especially in the past decade. Apples and oranges really when it comes to RVN//Salah
Liverpool 2018/19
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He really doesn't.
Agreed
Must be nice to fall back on one good team when the others doing so shit eh?
I mean it's only changed hands becuase the team chasing keep playing first. Leaving aside that it's City and Liverpool, I feel it's a pretty weak title race. It hasn't had unpredictable magic that you want from title races. City and Livepool just keep winning. They barely have had to come from behind and do something incredible in ages. Just feels like generic with two teams winning comfortably and whoever has an off day first loses.
Even the games against the two teams themselves were pretty flaccid. Nothing like our contests Vs Arsenal, which were like war.
As I always suspected growing up, being a Utd fan or a City fan was/is pretty interchangeable. I can never imagine wanting Everton to win even one league title. Certainly wouldn't brag about losing the deciding game that won them that title. And I don't even live in Liverpool. I can imagine my hatred being greater for them if I did.
I respect your view, and agree that the likes of Poch are living in a much more restrictive environment, with the Spurs wage structure and budget limitations. Poch has done an amazing job, and I'm not going to enter into the "hasn't won a trophy" debate because we both know its bollox.
But the bolded part is what I'd like to take you up on. Because the fact is, you could have had a 170m summer transfer kitty last summer - it's just Poch didn't want to do it. And this is crux, if Poch went to Levy and said he wanted to sell Kane and Alderweireld to Utd last summer for 170m (about the figures quoted at the time) to reinvest in the squad, I'm sure it could've happened - Utd had the interest. Plenty of rumours flying about. But in the end the Spurs hierarchy declined and kept the players, and ended up spending nothing.
Klopp, against the wishes of nearly every Liverpool fan (including me), decided to cash in on his biggest asset (obviously the situation was a little different, but Coutinho had just signed a 5-yr contract, so we could've said no). The fact that he reinvested so well is down to him.
This summer Utd could hedge their bets and sell Pogba for around 100m, on the proviso the funds are given to OGS for reinvestment. But let's be honest - who would trust him and the great man Woodward to do a Klopp? That's what makes Klopp special, along with everything else I don't need to go into.
Liverpool were in a better financial position because of our ever-increasing global reach, our CL run and our successive fourth place finishes. The club was plush with cash.
Klopp wanted to keep Phil C when we were going for VVD, which would have cost us around 50 million. It rose to 75 in the winter.
I hear this a lot, that we used the Phil C money to buy Virgil, we were going for Virgil way before Phil handed in his transfer request.
I'm not sure why him buying expensive players makes him a hypocrite. If you are acknowledging what he said about Pogba, he has already said that he got it wrong.
To compete for the PL title, you have to spend big to compete with City. City have raised the bar.
And the expensive players' values have doubled since Klopp was able to coach them. Who knew Virgil would be this good?
At Dortmund, Klopp didn't have to make expensive signings, yet he proved he could beat Bayern to the title twice. So he has done it with cheaper buys.
You do know that before klopp signed VVD, Alisson and Keita. Liverpool's net spend under Klopp was negative. I.e. he had made more money from players sales than he spend. Only reason he went big was because he had the funds and he had to replace his star player. Spurs got lot of money when they sold Bale, i didnt see your managers "doing what is expected from any manager."
Now lets compare Man City and Liverpool.
Defence :-
Liverpool :- TAA, Matip, VVD , Robertson and Alisson = £ 150 Million
Man City :- Walker, Stones, Laporte, Mendy and Ederson = £ 243.7 Million
Midfield :-
Liverpool :- Milner, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Fabinho and Keita = £ 135.4 Million
Man City :- Fernandinho, Bernado Silva, David Silva, KDB and Gundogan = £ 199.58 Million
Attack :-
Liverpool :- Salah, Mane, Firmino, Shaqiri and Origi = £ 136.38 Million
Man City :- Aguero, Sterling, Sane, Gabriel and Mahrez = £ 228.60 Million
Liverpool = 91 points in 36 games with squad cost of £ 421.78 millions
Man City = 89 points in 35 games with squad cost of £ 677.88 millions
(Note :- The list above is composed of players which have featured regularly for both teams, if we add the value of all players, the gap will only increase.)
So now based on stats above if Klopp is doing what is expected of managers then is Guardiola underperforming?
I was talking about the two teams on his profile he supports, but yeah with city this season it must feel like supporting three..
No because Guardiola is probably going to win a domestic treble and Klopp is probably going to win zilch.
Klopp gets a lot of credit for going close for somebody who boasts one of the most expensively assembled squads in the country. Guardiola wouldn't get credit for being close, if he finished on 97 points and won nothing he would be branded a failure.
Guardiola STILL gets questioned even though he's probably going to bag 3 trophies this season to add to the two he won last season. Klopp is treated like a genius just for competing.
There's the difference in levels and expectations.
You guys are not accounting the sunk cost of selling their 3 last stars Sterling, Cou, Suarez. City have the cushion of never worrying about losing Agueto, KdB. Its like they are always building a house of cards while other teams have some cards torn down here and there. Thats why Pool is much more impressive and likeable as a sustainable project, not some artificial oil bs. Until Pep only works in cosey conditions hes still in doubt to me as the best.
The trophies debate isn't 'bollox'. If you spend hundreds of millions the club should expect to be rewarded with some silverware. Managers like Poch and Emery escape that expectation because they have lower wage & transfer budgets to work with, but the guys like Klopp, Sarri, Ole and Guardiola all have the level of resources where you expect to be winning stuff. Klopp shouldn't be treated like Liverpool are working under constraints, he's a big reputation manager with an expensive squad, he should win things.
The problem with 'oh if you sold Kane you could do the same as Liverpool' is that it's blatantly not true. We couldn't attract players like Van Djik or Alisson because they wouldn't choose us over bigger clubs, and we can't afford to pay the kind of wages VVD is on for a defender. We'd have to go for more unproven talents (just like we did with the Bale money) and with that comes the huge risk of players that don't work out. That's the reality of managing a club like Spurs, you can't just go out and replace a WC player with 2-3 WC players in other positions. We could invest, but it would be on younger players with lower reputations.
Coutinho was basically forcing his way out, Klopp had little choice. He reinvested very well but the players you went for were hardly masterful scouting. You went for one of the highest rated defenders in the prem and the best keeper in Italy, alongside others like Keita who were stars in Germany. You chucked record breaking fees at them and then handed them massively lucrative contracts. Why should anybody be shocked when these players improved you? A record breaking CB should make you better defensively, as should a record breaking keeper or a 60 million midfielder.
Klopp's a very good manager who has done an excellent job building that Liverpool squad, but the idea that he's doing it under hard circumstances is what I'm challenging. He's a top manager at a top club who has been fully backed in the transfer market in a way few can match, you outspent everybody in the summer. It's not some miracle job he's done at Liverpool.
It's most certainly not. You'd never see something like this at a Manchester derby, for instance:
It's not that uncommon to see Liverpool and Everton fans sat in the same stand when they play each other. I've never seen that at Old Trafford or the Etihad.
I don't think many outside fans of his clubs could ever like him, but comparing expectations of City to Liverpool is insane. They were a mid placed side in 2015 realistically squad wise. He spent 200m net to develop a side that is able to compete with a club that already had Aguero, Silva, Fernandinho, Sterling, KDB, Kompany that had spent another 500m net on top of that. City is expected to win the league with that investment every single year and to win the CL surely very soon.
They are certainly spending more than you lot, but the difference between them and City should probably be even bigger than between you and them TBH.
Your thoughts are not correct
Still not good as RVN.
Pochetinno hasn't spent hundreds of millions since he's been at Spurs? Also not to mention you had sold Bale a year before and reinvested all the money which Pochettino benefited from.
Spurs can't plead poverty after spending over a billion on a stadium, maybe the priority should of been investing in the squad whilst others were rebuilding rather than building a stadium.
And if you claim Klopp hasn't done it under hard circumstances because he's had money spend might want to ask Ole who is in charge of the richest club in the world how hard it is to rebuild a team or Zidane who's going to have rebuild a Madrid team with hundreds of millions. Clubs of these sizes come with massive expectations, there is no easy rebuild just because you have money.
Pochettino has had far less than anybody else in the top six since joining Spurs, and far less to spend in terms of wage budget. Pochettino benefited from what? Capoue, Paulinho, Chriches? He had to shift most of them when he arrived because they were shite. Eriksen was the only one worth a damn.
Nobody is pleading poverty, but we've built the stadium to get our revenue on a par with the other top six clubs and in the future be able to offer managers the kind of backing Klopp has. That's the whole point of the complex, WHL needed to go because it was outdated and too small and we've done that. I had my issues with it but it's done now.
We've already established United made an absolute pigs ear of it. Their strategy was all wrong and they went with a scattergun approach with no clear thought or identity in place. Zidane's rebuild job I expect will go well and after spending a lot they will probably be back to being very successful, because 90% of the time that is how it works. Even United (despite their failures) managed 2nd place + two trophies the season before due to spending, and they're probably the worst example.
Haha! You're getting funny now.
If you're going to apply a logic, apply it consistently. If spending more money = you should win things, then City should win everything, and Klopp is meeting expectation by not winning anything. Simples
Nope. Our squad was assembled for a total of 393 million euros, Liverpool's for 705 million and City's for 976 million.
That means Liverpool's squad cost 312 million Euros more than ours, whereas City's cost 271 million more than Liverpool's.
City had a lot of ageing players that needed replacing. Hart, Zabaleta, Kolarov, Toure - there was a rebuild job on there. Yes he had a lot of quality already in the team, but it was far from a ready made team which he could just step in to, they had a poor keeper, very limited/poor cb options other than the injury stricken Kompany and ancient fullbacks.
Yes, expectations from Guardiola should be greater than the expectations for Klopp, he has spent more. But they're FAR more, to the point where even when Guardiola wins a league he gets criticised for not also winning the champions league. He could win a domestic treble this season and still be criticised by some because he's spent loads of money and therefore should be expected to win everything.
Klopp is a great manager, but he's still being treated like he's managing a plucky underdog and that he's done well with limited resources, and it just isn't the case. He's a great manager managing an expensive side with top players who cost a lot of money to bring to the club, that is all. He's not some messiah who assembled it on a shoestring and should be applauded for even competing for anything.
The man has the fourth most expensively assembled squad in all of Europe.
Still so salty about our inability to beat City, I see.
I still can't believe he's 47
Ignore him mate he's a clear wum, the simple truth is everyone hates these vermin cnuts he just hasn't quite grasped it yet.It's most certainly not. You'd never see something like this at a Manchester derby, for instance:
It's not that uncommon to see Liverpool and Everton fans sat in the same stand when they play each other. I've never seen that at Old Trafford or the Etihad.
Seriously though, I haven't laughed that much since I found out how old Ty from AFTV was.Butter.
Liverpool fans getting tagged. Everything's getting ready just in case.
The only people who want it to happen are probably the Liverpool fans though
I honestly do not think that comparing squad values is a viable method really. Their current squad was mostly assembled in the last two years where player prices have been inflated to insane heights. They also barely have any homegrown players besides TAA and Gomez who are important. Some of the players that have been bought before Klopp arrived were way to overpriced at that time that are still squad members, e.g. Lallana, Lovren, Moreno. You also happen to have Kane, whose ''cost" is listed as 0 but would easily fetch Coutinho money or probably more when he is sold and needs to be replaced. If you'd factor that in, the difference of your squad value to Liverpool isn't that big anymore tbh, certainly not to that between City and Pool.
Haha! You're getting funny now.
If you're going to apply a logic, apply it consistently. If spending more money = you should win things, then City should win everything, and Klopp is meeting expectation by not winning anything. Simples
What..?
Spending money = you should win trophies, not 'everything'.
Guardiola has won trophies. Lots of them. Probably two league titles, two league cups and an FA cup at City.
You obviously can't be expected to win everything no matter how good you are, because doing so requires a hell of a lot of fortune over multiple competitions. It's perfectly reasonable to expect you win SOMETHING though.
I don't get how that logic is confusing for you and has suddenly become 'if you spend the most you should win every trophy' but hey ho.
Eh?I have never felt so unignored on here.
Look at what exactly?
I still don't see this great player that Liverpool fans talk about whenever I saw him play for Liverpool.
When I was a kid united were no marks. Everton was the hated team. Still are. Could you imagine rooting for Everton to beat us at Anfield no less to prevent united a shot at the title knowing they would still be behind us in league titles. You would have to be desperately bitter to even think about it.
Oh definitely. We all know that Liverpool take the moral high ground always!
If it hasn't happened tomorrow I fear the title is gone. Burnley away is usually a tough fixture so I still have a glimmer of hope.
Can't watch the game because I have one myself but feck me that'll be a tense moment checking the score afterwards.
Can't watch the game because I have one myself but feck me that'll be a tense moment checking the score afterwards.
You wanted Liverpool to beat Chelsea in 2010?
What, to be banned?The only people who want it to happen are probably the Liverpool fans though
Agreed with everything other than great CL run. I think Man City absolutely failed at the CL. For a team that spend as much as they did, anything less than consistent CL Semi appearances is unacceptable. I know how incredibly hard it is to win the CL, but City should still be always fighting among the last 4 with the occasional Finals appearance. I think Pep have gotten massively overrated due to the God Send Messi/Xavi/Ini team he had. James Milner can step into a time machine and manage that team to CL Final.
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