Come the day, I think you, & a lot of other United fans might feel differently. I was at the Blackburn game in 1995 when victory for them against us in the final game of the season at Anfield would have guaranteed them the title regardless of what United did at West Ham. Walking up the ground I was adamant that I wanted us to lose. However, once the ref blew his whistle to start the game, instinct kicked in. Rovers took the lead & no Liverpool fans cheered or jumped for joy. Quite the opposite though when we equalized, & a mini euphoria when Redknapp scored our late winner. It all worked out well in the end, but you'll find it's very, very difficult to suddenly go - even for just one game - against the tribal elements of football. Lets not forget too that even if you do take points off City it'll not decide the destiny of the league title because we're more than capable of dropping points in our final games. I'm pretty sure OT will be a cauldron of noise & passion on the 24th of this month. I'm also sure the vast majority of the crowd, & the people on here, will be aching for a United victory.
Liverpool 2018/19
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Come the day, I think you, & a lot of other United fans might feel differently. I was at the Blackburn game in 1995 when victory for them against us in the final game of the season at Anfield would have guaranteed them the title regardless of what United did at West Ham. Walking up the ground I was adamant that I wanted us to lose. However, once the ref blew his whistle to start the game, instinct kicked in. Rovers took the lead & no Liverpool fans cheered or jumped for joy. Quite the opposite though when we equalized, & a mini euphoria when Redknapp scored our late winner. It all worked out well in the end, but you'll find it's very, very difficult to suddenly go - even for just one game - against the tribal elements of football. Lets not forget too that even if you do take points off City it'll not decide the destiny of the league title because we're more than capable of dropping points in our final games. I'm pretty sure OT will be a cauldron of noise & passion on the 24th of this month. I'm also sure the vast majority of the crowd, & the people on here, will be aching for a United victory.
Yep, I can see all that as very possible. Good points well made.
When Liverpool had a strong attack, it wasn't enough. They'll need a strong defence to win this year. If they win a their remaining games, they win the title.
It was the great Sir Alex who said so: "Attack wins you games, defense wins you titles" and it is said that of other sports too. Not saying it's right all the time, but in Liverpool's case it might end up being the case.
Come on, you've not given up on City surely?
The FA should have an investigation if Ole starts a weak team against City. It’s united vs City. There should no way a team like united with their history should even think about tanking a game.
An investigation. 
I don't think we even have a weakened team at the moment, just try to jumble a team together out of the players we have fit.
I don't think we even have a weakened team at the moment, just try to jumble a team together out of the players we have fit.
I mean I've been pretty busy lately, just started a new job. Moved to a new city. So when I sit down after work or at the weekend I'm often a million miles away from football, so my first thought is always 'Hey, I hope United play really good this weekend, I wanna watch us win and dominate' regardless of opponent of course. So that's just my instinct.
Obviously, I completely understand the Liverpool hatred. Although I didn't grow up in the UK, I've heard from enough people, both on this forum, and some friends in real life, and all of them despise the thought of the scousers winning the league. So I do get that. And I agree of course. And I don't even think they'll win it, I think City are just that much of a better squad that they'll barely drop any points till the end of the season.
So that's why, for our game against City, I don't really think I'll be concerned with Liverpool that much. I'll just be watching United play and rooting for the lads, just like any other week. I think the caf will be understandably going crazy during that game though, so I was just curious about that, hence asking the question.
Either way, like I always say, I'm a United fan, have been since I was about 9, but I've been a football fan since I could walk. So, at the end of the day, I think just like any other sport, it's all about people coming together and enjoying a competitive game. We've had some sh*t times during the last 5 years and here's what that's taught me: When we win, I enjoy it. When we lose, I go for a walk and enjoy that. There's enough sh*t in life as it is. I don't aim to bring that into my love for football as well.
Were you there when Gerrard made the excellent through ball to Drogba?
I am Damien Thorn, so can you please desist from positing this kind of nonsense in public forums. Thanks.
*goes off to ride the Whore of Babylon*
I hope we play the under 21's against City. The reaction from the Liverpool fans on this board and on RAWK will be priceless.
Do it, Ole.
If the Scouse don’t win the league this season I think that’s the end of Klopp’s Liverpool and I see a significant drop off in their performances next season. This season has been their perfect storm. If they don’t win it now, I can’t see this group of players ever winning it.
In terms of ‘luck’, those that don’t think it plays a part in success are not seeing the full picture. As a world class goalkeeper can add points over a season (this is NOT luck contrary to some insane observers’ thoughts), so can extreme luck. Liverpool have at least 8-10 points they shouldn’t have this season, but it’s more than possible that they will lose points through bad luck over the next few games. Then what?
Their real luck, for me, has been with form and injuries. Only Salah has ‘underperformed’ (but Mane has suddenly come into his best ever form), and I know (objective) Liverpool fans who’ve told me they can’t believe how consistent their defence has been (especially the full-backs in both attack and defence) this season and how few injuries they’ve suffered. Is this further luck as City have had a few key injuries this season?
I think their very blessed run since the City defeat (see the number of 1 goal victories before and after that City game) has been astonishing considering the actual football I’ve seen them play.
Chelsea’s run in their CL win, and, perhaps, a couple of Real Madrid’s recent CL wins, are the only examples I’ve ever seen where a team somehow keeps getting the result they need after playing poorly and end up winning the tournament - but they were no more than 7-8 games in total! I’ve never seen so many favourable ‘events’ for a team in a league season in my 30 odd years of watching football. It’s amazing to watch on a certain masochist level as a United fan.
Liverpool have certainly made a bit of their luck (you have to be attacking for the mistakes to count), but to not acknowledge the fortune they’ve had as being significant with regards them still challenging for the title is folly. Can they ride this luck to the end? Probability suggests not, but I still think there’s going to be a few further influential lucky calls, and maybe they won’t go for Liverpool...
It’s astonishing that Liverpool are still challenging. Apart from maybe Van Dijk and the full-backs, would anyone change the players from their team to City’s? That’s why, even with the luck they’ve had, City have to be favourites for the title.
*prays*
In terms of ‘luck’, those that don’t think it plays a part in success are not seeing the full picture. As a world class goalkeeper can add points over a season (this is NOT luck contrary to some insane observers’ thoughts), so can extreme luck. Liverpool have at least 8-10 points they shouldn’t have this season, but it’s more than possible that they will lose points through bad luck over the next few games. Then what?
Their real luck, for me, has been with form and injuries. Only Salah has ‘underperformed’ (but Mane has suddenly come into his best ever form), and I know (objective) Liverpool fans who’ve told me they can’t believe how consistent their defence has been (especially the full-backs in both attack and defence) this season and how few injuries they’ve suffered. Is this further luck as City have had a few key injuries this season?
I think their very blessed run since the City defeat (see the number of 1 goal victories before and after that City game) has been astonishing considering the actual football I’ve seen them play.
Chelsea’s run in their CL win, and, perhaps, a couple of Real Madrid’s recent CL wins, are the only examples I’ve ever seen where a team somehow keeps getting the result they need after playing poorly and end up winning the tournament - but they were no more than 7-8 games in total! I’ve never seen so many favourable ‘events’ for a team in a league season in my 30 odd years of watching football. It’s amazing to watch on a certain masochist level as a United fan.
Liverpool have certainly made a bit of their luck (you have to be attacking for the mistakes to count), but to not acknowledge the fortune they’ve had as being significant with regards them still challenging for the title is folly. Can they ride this luck to the end? Probability suggests not, but I still think there’s going to be a few further influential lucky calls, and maybe they won’t go for Liverpool...
It’s astonishing that Liverpool are still challenging. Apart from maybe Van Dijk and the full-backs, would anyone change the players from their team to City’s? That’s why, even with the luck they’ve had, City have to be favourites for the title.
*prays*
Oh the ironing coming from a supporter of a club that benefited from the starfish phenomenon securing multiple wins through conning the officials. And Salah and Suarez's penchant for diving as well.
Just get a point. Just a point will do. TY
I hope we play the under 21's against City. The reaction from the Liverpool fans on this board and on RAWK will be priceless.
Do it, Ole.
I’ll go right back to my efn cave a happy man
They certainly didn't act/perform like professionals from September through November.
United will get nothing against City and not for lack of trying. Old trafford is easy pickings for City in recent times. Not to mention the managerial mismatch.
We'll throw it. It's only 3 days after Everton and 4 days before Chelsea, play the U21s and rest the first XI for those two games. We'll still get top four.
Great price for the league at 9/5. I thought they would be evens after yesterday. If they beat Southampton and Chelsea I think they'll do it, unfortunately.
Yes I was. I was also at Anfield 3 days prior when we were knocked out of the UEFA Cup semi final on away goals by Atletico Madrid after extra time. So Chelsea were always going to beat us that day irrespective of Gerrard's brainfart. The Liverpool players, & the crowd, were deflated, so it was probably one of Chelsea's easiest games of the season.
Not quite. And some of it might be pessimism. And after I say that I get a bit confused, tbh. Let me try & extrapolate by reversing direction.
I think not long after the season had started & LFC were doing really well - it was widely stated that City would still win it by a few (I think most of us went along with that)
Then it was being said that LFC had 'no chance' because of all the familiar arguments - squad strength, Liverpool MF etc - and I wasn't quite so sure about that. I might have said, I might not have done... (for an easy life,
)So let's do it now. You can only put 11 players on the field, some of those 11 are still key players usually. I think LFC have fewer problems when key players might not be there - and this hasn't even really happened to Liverpool.
Over at City, really very key player KDB hasn't had a great season & Aguero has missed some games. I think Jesus is a significant downgrade.
We're now down to 8 games & all that is still the case - an injury to VVD or the GK or involving Moreno won't be great but enough of the Liverpool front 6 can be interchanged to retain LFC team strength.
I might have or should have said - ''this could be a lot closer than we think''
(I also hope you manage to stick around, D.)
Oh, and I know how bloody Sissoko should have scored now, too.
Fairplay to VVD for splitting the 2 attackers how he does. But if Sissoko kinda ploughs straight at him, it releases Son to check back around the other way - the ball is laid left to where Son now is - and he scores with 'nae bother'
Bit counter-intuitive, but you have to move VVD from where he wants to be (inbetween the players) - I *reckon* there's a really famous goal that shows how to do this - but I can't remember who it is, atm.
Fairplay to VVD for splitting the 2 attackers how he does. But if Sissoko kinda ploughs straight at him, it releases Son to check back around the other way - the ball is laid left to where Son now is - and he scores with 'nae bother'
Bit counter-intuitive, but you have to move VVD from where he wants to be (inbetween the players) - I *reckon* there's a really famous goal that shows how to do this - but I can't remember who it is, atm.
I'm sick of hearing all the media and pundits saying how the last min goal against spurs will psychologically effect City.
I somehow dont think it will be on their minds when Sterling is scoring the 4th goal against Cardiff Tommo.
I somehow dont think it will be on their minds when Sterling is scoring the 4th goal against Cardiff Tommo.
I doubt the crowd will be up for it against City if you don't drop points before then.
We’ve not been as sound at the back in the second half of the season but we’ve still been good. We’re just attacking a little more than we were in the first half of the season and it’s mostly been enough. I can’t really decide which I prefer.
I’d be interested to see how Gomez does when he gets back.
Been missing Gomez a lot. Him, VVD and Alisson just oozed quality.
Matip is doing a fine job filling in but that is as far as it goes for him.
Matip is a fine CB not perfect but i rate him highly. However Gomez has unreal potential and him and VVD together were immense. It’s not that Matip is bad, far from it.
As UEFA accrediated armchair manager that i am, i will give my expert opinion from comfort of my armchair. So here it goes, we have all figured it by now that liverpool's midfield is quite unproductive when it comes to creativity, none of them has the ability to run with the ball. Fekiar and Keita were suppose to be the solution but one transfer never happend and other has been unable to pick up his leipzig form. That has left klopp with Fabinho, Henderson, Milner and Wijnaldum. Except fabinho, all others are very similiar in their ability. But they all do basic things right, that is keep the ball rolling and can run more than any other midfield trio in league.
So how Klopp tackled it? By using his fullbacks, his fullbacks have 17 assists between them. Klopp has used many formations but his front 3 has always narrow, salah has getting double teamed alot from opposition fullback and winger/wide midfielder. Also liverpool's wide players like to run towards the goal, giving lot of space and time for fullbacks on the overlap. Due to these runs, fullback has to rush to block crosses from liverpool's FBs. Which creates confusion in defense because somebody has to cover the safe being created by rushing FB and CBs also have to change positioning in relation to that. So when liverpool is attacking they basically have 3 players in opposition box, 5 in opposition third. With only 2 CBs at the back. Which is very dangerous situation so those 3 midfielders come in handy as one of the 3 midfielders going for the opposition wide player whenever they get caught on the counter usually supported by CB. CDM which is usually Henderson or Fabinho and the 3 midfielder covering any player running to capitalise on pull back.
I feel only Liverpool, Spurs and Man city can play this way as only they have the fullbacks with enough stamina to defend and attack, everytime they go forward. Man city has the fullbacks but their midfield is too string to use as shield for defense. I mean why will you ask players like gundogan, KDB and Silva, to do that?
So credit to klopp for making his players this fit, using what he has to get the best out of the team and also ensuring he has all his nest attacking players in shooting range to goal. Instead of having only 2 in the box while one whipping it in.
So how Klopp tackled it? By using his fullbacks, his fullbacks have 17 assists between them. Klopp has used many formations but his front 3 has always narrow, salah has getting double teamed alot from opposition fullback and winger/wide midfielder. Also liverpool's wide players like to run towards the goal, giving lot of space and time for fullbacks on the overlap. Due to these runs, fullback has to rush to block crosses from liverpool's FBs. Which creates confusion in defense because somebody has to cover the safe being created by rushing FB and CBs also have to change positioning in relation to that. So when liverpool is attacking they basically have 3 players in opposition box, 5 in opposition third. With only 2 CBs at the back. Which is very dangerous situation so those 3 midfielders come in handy as one of the 3 midfielders going for the opposition wide player whenever they get caught on the counter usually supported by CB. CDM which is usually Henderson or Fabinho and the 3 midfielder covering any player running to capitalise on pull back.
I feel only Liverpool, Spurs and Man city can play this way as only they have the fullbacks with enough stamina to defend and attack, everytime they go forward. Man city has the fullbacks but their midfield is too string to use as shield for defense. I mean why will you ask players like gundogan, KDB and Silva, to do that?
So credit to klopp for making his players this fit, using what he has to get the best out of the team and also ensuring he has all his nest attacking players in shooting range to goal. Instead of having only 2 in the box while one whipping it in.
If you lot are hoping Utd will beat City, sorry to disappoint.
City will murder us !
City will murder us !
Utd really are looking leggy and hopeless. That's not a WUM, I'm actually surprised. City and Barca will have field days.
With Gomez and. VVD partnership we conceded 4 goals in 12 matches. He's been a big miss.
Ok, but almost every team has some matches where luck goes against them and some where it goes for them. I understand that confirmation bias is strongly at work here, and you want Liverpool to be lucky (as that is better than admitting they are good), so you find the evidence to support this. However, they have had some great luck, but some bad luck as well. Just like any team.
You are aware that they have been playing their 4th choice center back for two months now, correct? Or that they were playing Fabinho, a midfielder, at center back for some games as they had 3 center backs injured? You are aware that the only real "poor" run of form this year coincided with TAA being out injured? Not to mention our first choice central midfielder, which can reasonably be dismissed, as he's been out for a year.
Oh, so no serious underperformance, except from the reigning PFA player of the year... And anyways, that isn't particularly true. Firminho hasn't been as good as he was last year either. He hasn't been poor (though neither has Salah to be fair), but things just aren't clicking at times.
Those are terrible comparisons, as randomness plays a far larger role in two legged cup ties, than over a 38 game season. Do you know the right comparison? United under Ferguson. You used to get "lucky" all the time. You'd score late goals, get penalty decisions going your way, win when you played poorly, etc. Thats not a sign of cosmic intervention, but instead a sign of a good side putting themselves in the position to win even when they aren't playing their best.
Also, Liverpool are currently on track to finish with 94 points. That would be the third highest point total in Premier League history. You really have to tie yourself into knots to pretend a side on track for 94 points isn't that good. They are an incredible side, with arguably the best central defender in the world, an elite goalkeeper, two excellent fullbacks, and world class players across the attack. Only in midfield do they suffer in comparison to City, arguably the greatest side in Premier League history. So yes, they have gotten some luck, but luck can't explain 94 points. Only being really really really good can.
It looks like the ''Elite Keeper'' is having to drink 1/2 full cups of tea atm. He must be due one, .
.You sound like my better half with that comparison jibe! It wasn’t a direct comparison, obviously, with league football; more one regarding luck at crucial junctures. Of course United got lucky over the years but my main point is that if you win the league this season, unlike the overwhelming majority of United’s league titles, I don’t think you have been the best football team and it will be the luck that gets you there. However, being up against this financially doped City side is bad luck that trumps all the good fortune!
Regardless, I very much appreciate the reasoned nature of all your arguments (not always the case on these boards), and if you do win the league none of this will have any significance. I sense they’ll be many more crucial moments before the end of the season but somehow feel it may be the CL games that will actually decide the league (i.e. how the teams react on the weekend games after the CL ties).
As the sadly missed, William Hicks used to say, enjoy the ride! (And, yes, I’m just jealous, really!)...
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feck. It's these sorts of results that give you belief. We just might do it.
I don't think anyone can stop them
All my hopes are on city. Not a nice position to be in.
Don't bold posts like that, its an eyesore.
if Liverpool win all their remaining fixtures and still don't win it, what will this do to their mentality of their players, manager and fans. 1 defeat, over 90 points, having one hand on the title, celebrating like they have won it like last night and still not winning the title. To pick themselves up from that is almost impossible. Then to go again next season with the same consistency, VAR , keepers not droping clangers and other teams spending money........It could be the beginning of the end.
So fans and pundits who say it's still a great season if you don't win it is bollocks. Wining it this season has become a must, not a dream.
So fans and pundits who say it's still a great season if you don't win it is bollocks. Wining it this season has become a must, not a dream.
Hazard is more than capable of going to town on that Liverpool defence. It might just be within Chelsea’s powers to show up next weekend. They were much better than Liverpool at Stamford Bridge, lest we forget, before a Sturridge fluke saved Liverpool’s arses in the 89th minute. It’s not a foregone conclusion yet. It’s in our favour actually that Chelsea desperately need the points to get into the Champions League places.
Agree completely. There is no way on earth Liverpool better themselves next season in terms of points accumulation. They are roughly, in most observers’ eyes, ten points better off now than their performances to date suggest and have had the largest dollop of good fortune any team chasing a title has likely ever had. It truly is incredible.
If they don’t win it this year, finishing behind a City team who’ve largely been unlucky this season (Palace and Leicester wonder goals to fluke two unlikely and undeserved wins), it will crush them. Guardiola, the greatest football manager since Ferguson and the one of the greatest of any era, is masterminding City’s safe passage home with six fixtures left to negotiate. I think we can take some solace in that fact. If it were a Sarri or a Pochettino trying to steer home that ship, I’d be very nervous but Guardiola is a serial winner and an experienced hand at this juncture of the season. The City players themselves are also well used to the pressure victory demands. For those reasons alone, I am content with how things stand. It’s just annoying that Liverpool didn’t drop as many points as they should have since Christmas. It shouldn’t even be a race at this stage but at least it’s keeping City honest. They’re well aware any slip now will be fatal and I trust their talent and professionalism to get the job done.
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It's so true about Pep being in charge helps City. He has won trebles in Barcalona and knows how to handle the pressure and rotate his players. He has the luxury of playing 2 different teams in every match and winning the lot.
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