Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense

[Barney]

Well, you'll have to forgive me because I can't be arsed to look for it. And neither can I be arsed to believe it. It's revisionist nonsense touted around in support of the Manager Cult.

Barrett, Hunter, Pearce, Bascombe and the likes have all said that while Rodgers did have the final say on Balotelli, it was a case of him or no one. Rodgers has also said that we could not attract bigger names this summer and you'd have to assume he's taking about Sanchez and Falcao, players who we wanted to bring in ahead of Balotelli. When we could not get them, we panicked. At the end of the day though, you are correct in saying that Rodgers okayed the signing - as you say, every signing has to be approved by him.

I largely agree with the rest of your post, but I would be stunned if Balotelli ever was considered a successful signing.

 

[Barney]

In other words, he's done nothing special.

In the same way you (United supporters) consider Blind to be a success despite not doing anything special. You don't have to become Luis Suarez, Phil Coutinho or Daniel Sturridge to be considered a good signing.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

In the same way you (United supporters) consider Blind to be a success despite not doing anything special. You don't have to become Luis Suarez, Phil Coutinho or Daniel Sturridge to be considered a good signing.

He wasn't signed to have remotely the same role as Blind has, but if that's your logic, I can't really dispute it. It's nonsensical to me, but whatever.

 

[Gee Male]

This season? He's had the best goals/assists per minute in our squad asides from Sturridge. He's put in some very good performances, he presses relentlessly. He was one of the few players that actually put in some decent showings during our run of being completely shite. He's done all this without a preseason and whilst having various injuries that have caused him to be stop-start.

He's also done all this while not being picked in your starting line-up for some of your biggest CL games, being left out for all three away CL fixtures, and also left out of the deciding fixture against Basel at Anfield.

Why do you think he wasn't trusted in those games? Most expensive signing in the squad and an unqualified success in your eyes, but not good enough to be included when it really counts? Something doesn't add up.

 

[Gina11]

I really don't want to get dragged into assessing players and transfers because it kind of misses the point. But anyone who says Sakho has been poor really doesn't have a clue.

Moving on, you can look at any one transfer and rate it - if you want to - but I really don't think that's the point. The big question is, which way is the team going? Has the transfer strategy improved our play and our results.

When we lost Luis Suarez, he left a mammoth hole in the club and we took a decision not to replace him with one player but by strengthening the squad and - to an extent - investing in the future. We would, I believe, have bought Sanchez if we could, maybe at the cost of a Lallana and/or Markovic but generally the strategy last summer was clear.

For the first half of this season, we struggled. So people blamed the transfers.

Now we're doing better - though everyone can see it's still not quite right up front - and people are praising the manager.

But it's all the same club and the same players. And it's obvious that the manager and the players struggled to make things work at first and now they're doing better. I reckon that we'll only really know whether last summer was a success or not when we see how the team lines up at the start of next season.

Anything else is Football Manager bullshit or Top Trumps.

----

Consider Manchester United. Has Falcao been a success? Mata? Angel di Maria? Probably not in isolation. But surely at least two of those three have so much potential that you're still expecting the best from them?

Do you believe there's been a transfer strategy?

Are you happy with the way the team is playing?

Are you happy with the results and your standing in the league?

My guess is that you're happy with the league but worried about the performances and you're still waiting to judge the transfer strategy.

My feelings about Liverpool are the other way around. I don't like the league table but I'm happy with the performances and I'm still waiting to judge the transfers.

 

[Alex99]

In the same way you (United supporters) consider Blind to be a success despite not doing anything special. You don't have to become Luis Suarez, Phil Coutinho or Daniel Sturridge to be considered a good signing.

Fairly certain Adam the Llama was signed to fill some of the void Suarez left. I don't think he's come remotely close to doing that, regardless of his stats.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Yes, Mignolet undecided. He hasn't been rubbish for two full seasons, that's revisionist shite. He had a very good first four months to his Liverpool career, a shaky Christmas period and a decent end to the season. This year he had an ok start, a nightmareish three months and then a couple of months of very good form again.

Lallana has the second best goals/assists per minute in our squad after Sturridge.

Surely you can see the hilarity in calling Lallana a success based on a few months of decent performances for you and then calling Mignolet undecided despite him having far more spells of terrible performances than that? It's astonishingly biased and selective. And not just Lallana either, basically any of your new signings. In contrast I wouldn't call any of our new signings successes yet, they all, Blind included, have much more to prove.

It's a joke of a list.

 

[Gina11]

Barrett, Hunter, Pearce, Bascombe and the likes have all said that while Rodgers did have the final say on Balotelli, it was a case of him or no one.

And although I wouldn't trust three of those four to tell me the time, I'm sure that's true. But that doesn't excuse Rodgers from his share of the responsibility. He and the committee did a very poor job last summer when it came to strikers. And don't even get me started on Lovren. I'm sure he has the potential to be a very good player for LFC but did we really need him? Et cetera ...

I largely agree with the rest of your post, but I would be stunned if Balotelli ever was considered a successful signing.

I live in hope

 

[Massive Spanner]

Actually the very fact that Dumbstar seems to think we see Di Maria as a success and is using it as a comparison for allowing them to say Lallana has been a success (despite basically nobody on here thinking Di Maria has been a success and quite a lot of people calling him a dud so far) shows how stupidly biased and silly Pool fans can be when it comes to their players.

 

[Gee Male]

I really don't want to get dragged into assessing players and transfers because it kind of misses the point. But anyone who says Sakho has been poor really doesn't have a clue.

Moving on, you can look at any one transfer and rate it - if you want to - but I really don't think that's the point. The big question is, which way is the team going? Has the transfer strategy improved our play and our results.

When we lost Luis Suarez, he left a mammoth hole in the club and we took a decision not to replace him with one player but by strengthening the squad and - to an extent - investing in the future. We would, I believe, have bought Sanchez if we could, maybe at the cost of a Lallana and/or Markovic but generally the strategy last summer was clear.

For the first half of this season, we struggled. So people blamed the transfers.

Now we're doing better - though everyone can see it's still not quite right up front - and people are praising the manager.

But it's all the same club and the same players. And it's obvious that the manager and the players struggled to make things work at first and now they're doing better. I reckon that we'll only really know whether last summer was a success or not when we see how the team lines up at the start of next season.

Anything else is Football Manager bullshit or Top Trumps.

----

Consider Manchester United. Has Falcao been a success? Mata? Angel di Maria? Probably not in isolation. But surely at least two of those three have so much potential that you're still expecting the best from them?

Do you believe there's been a transfer strategy?

Are you happy with the way the team is playing?

Are you happy with the results and your standing in the league?

My guess is that you're happy with the league but worried about the performances and you're still waiting to judge the transfer strategy.

My feelings about Liverpool are the other way around. I don't like the league table but I'm happy with the performances and I'm still waiting to judge the transfers.

The top half of this post is essentially 'anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid'.

The bottom half is pure deflection from the assessment of Rodgers' transfers by dragging United into it. If you don't think Rodgers' transfer record can stand up to scrutiny based on it's own merits then fine, there's no need to drag us into it - we're well aware we're not doing great thank you very much.

Apart from that... can't really argue with any of the post, makes good sense.

 

[Alex99]

Just so Barney doesn't think there's any bias, I'll do United's signings since Rodgers joined Liverpewl.

Successes:
van Persie
Blind

Okay:
Rojo
Shaw
Herrera
Mata

Poor:
Di Maria

Failures:
Powell
Kagawa
Henriquez
Buttner
Zaha
Falcao

Undecided:
Valdez
Fellaini
Varela
Janko

 

[Gee Male]

Just so Barney doesn't think there's any bias, I'll do United's signings since Rodgers joined Liverpewl.

Snip

Kind of shows how subjective it is I guess. For me, there's no way I'd have Blind as a success just yet, and I'd have Mata as a poor signing given he can't make our team and cost £37m.

I would not like to run the numbers for each category, that's for sure. Doesn't make for pretty reading that.

Anyway, wrong thread :-)

 

[Gina11]

The top half of this post is essentially 'anyone who doesn't agree with me is stupid'.

Well, obviously. Because in this case, I'm right.

The bottom half is pure deflection from the assessment of Rodgers' transfers by dragging United into it. If you don't think Rodgers' transfer record can stand up to scrutiny based on it's own merits then fine, there's no need to drag us into it - we're well aware we're not doing great thank you very much.

You're mistaking me for someone who feels obliged to defend Brendan Rodgers. Or even deflect for him. I don't much care for him. I was only trying to show that my argument doesn't just fit one club.

Apart from that... can't really argue with any of the post, makes good sense.

The third part of this post was the best.

 

[Alex99]

Kind of shows how subjective it is I guess. For me, there's no way I'd have Blind as a success just yet, and I'd have Mata as a poor signing given he can't make our team and cost £37m.

I would not like to run the numbers for each category, that's for sure. Doesn't make for pretty reading that.

Anyway, wrong thread :-)

I'm not going by cost. If I was, the scouse list would be different too. Mata's offered a fair amount to the team, without really offering anything particularly new. However, I feel Blind has given us something we needed in midfield and has settled into that role remarkably quickly. I wouldn't really argue him being classed as okay or undecided, but I think it's very harsh to classify Mata as poor.

 

[Barney]

Or we reject the need for a purpose built shield for three centre backs and focus on controlling the ball and the game.

This is what I think will and should happen. I think Rodgers would much rather have an Alonso than a Mascherano. Someone who is in the team to collect the ball and start attacks (this is what he did with Gerrard last season). I'm not sure three at the back is going to be continued in the long term, but either way, I think Rodgers would prefer to sign someone who can actually play football rather than a defensive midfielder. While many of our supporters want a big lad who runs around kicking people and winning the ball in the middle of the park, from what Rodgers has shown so far at the club, I tend to think he'll stay away from signing someone like that.

I'm not convinced we'll continue to play 3-4-3. It's a model we were forced into by Sturridge's injury and the transfer failures last summer. However, I've assumed Ilori and Wisdom - who is naturally a centre back - will be back but yes, we may need a new one if we stick with this formation and they're not up to the job. However, that's one of the positions I reckon we should be buying potential for while we ask the manager to earn his money by making Sakho, Skrtel, and Lovren work as our first choice back line.

I don't think we should spend a penny on a centre back. Sakho is obviously fine, but unless we're getting Thiago Silva or Varane, it's not a position worth spending massively on because all we'll ever get is a slight upgrade. Skrtel has had a really strong couple of months, arguably his best since he's been at the club and the manager seems to rate him. I'd give Lovren another year to get his act together. He's put in two or three okay performances recently, so hopefully he builds upon those. Doubt Ilori and Wisdom will both make it here. It will be one or the other. Centre back is not a position that managers like to rotate in, so it will be difficult for them to get chances. Wisdom has a slight advantage here in that he can play at right back as well.

I'm not sure Borini will ever leave. And no one knows what will happen with Mario. Personally, I want him to stay but I can see a lot of other people want rid. In the whole recent penalty farce, no one seemed to want to acknowledge that Jordan Henderson is actually two months older than Mario. He has so much potential - and he's been turning in decent performances lately - that I'd love to see us persevere with him.

I really do not want us to persist with Mario. If we get a decent offer I'd get rid of him instantly. I think Ings and another striker on a similar level to Sturridge would sort us out going forward. We need a striker who can be relied upon and as talented as Balotelli is, he is just not that player.

My main idea here, btw, is that when we lost Suarez, we were forced into a redesign of the team and the raft of new purchases took time to bed in and we struggled to find our form and a way of playing. We don't want to make the same mistakes again. We need a season where we hit the ground running and consolidate our position as a top four side. The current squad is good enough to do that with the addition of a couple of high quality players in the right positions.

The current squad is good enough to get into the top four without any high quality additions IMO. If we add a couple of high quality players to the squad, I'd be looking at the title (deluded!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). I agree with you completely though, last summer was about padding the squad out and making sure we had a squad that was capable of playing in four competitions. We have a good squad now and if we manage to add a couple of top notch players that come in and perform well from the start of the season, then I think we can surprise people again. I'd spend big on a midfielder and a striker, add Ings, a decent right back (if the rumours of Manquillo being home-sick are true), and a decent second choice keeper.

Pjanic, Laporte, Lacazette. I know that's very unrealistic but I'd be over the moon if we even get one of those next summer. Preferably Pjanic.

Yeah, Pjanic would be an incredible signing. He'd be my pick from those three as well. Not keen on Laporte though. Good player, but we don't need another centre back who prefers to play on the left side of defence. He's a better player than Sakho, but Sakho is not someone I'd be trying to replace in the near future.

 

[Barney]

Fairly certain Adam the Llama was signed to fill some of the void Suarez left. I don't think he's come remotely close to doing that, regardless of his stats.

Anyone who thinks Lallana was signed to replace Suarez doesn't have two brain cells to rub together, frankly.

 

[Alex99]

Anyone who thinks Lallana was signed to replace Suarez doesn't have two brain cells to rub together, frankly.

I don't think he was bought as a like for like replacement, but given that Suarez was your biggest attacking threat, I think Lallana was bought to provide some of what was lost when Suarez left for Spain. Key word in the post you quoted and in this one is some.

He's clearly not the same caliber of player as Gnasher, but he's an attack minded player, brought in for a rather hefty fee during a transfer window that saw another attack-minded player leave. I don't think it's too absurd to suggest that Rodgers/Transfer Committee/New World Order thought a few fresh faces up top would help supplement what was lost when Suarez buggered off.

 

[untitled_6899]

Anyone who thinks Lallana was signed to replace Suarez doesn't have two brain cells to rub together, frankly.

 

[shabadu84]

When I've added in-form players - Sanchez, Fabregas, Aguero, Sterling, di Maria, Downing, Rooney - to my fantasy team this season, they quickly get injured or fade fast.

Consider yourselves warned Scousers - I added Coutinho and Sturridge

 

[Barney]

I don't think he was bought as a like for like replacement, but given that Suarez was your biggest attacking threat, I think Lallana was bought to provide some of what was lost when Suarez left for Spain. Key word in the post you quoted and in this one is some.

He's clearly not the same caliber of player as Gnasher, but he's an attack minded player, brought in for a rather hefty fee during a transfer window that saw another attack-minded player leave. I don't think it's too absurd to suggest that Rodgers/Transfer Committee/New World Order thought a few fresh faces up top would help supplement what was lost when Suarez buggered off.

Sanchez was the player that we aimed to replace Suarez with. If we had managed to sign him, then it would have been at the expense of Balotelli, not Lallana. I think Balotelli is the closest you could come to calling any of our signings a "Suarez replacement", but even then, I think the idea was that the responsibility would be spread around the team. We needed additional attacking players whether Suarez stayed or left.

 

[Rafateria]

Well, you'll have to forgive me because I can't be arsed to look for it. And neither can I be arsed to believe it. It's revisionist nonsense touted around in support of the Manager Cult.

There is a transfer committee. It was set up to ensure a level of continuity within the club after Rodgers refused to work with a director of football. And given that Louis Van Gaal was the prime candidate, who can blame him? Clash of the Titanic Egos right there.

Regardless of who is in what job at what time, the membership of the transfer committee is the first team manager, the head of recruitment, and the head of performance and analysis. The committee is chaired by the CEO and reports to Tom Werner who is the club chairman.

All transfer decisions are taken by the transfer committee. They have to be unanimous. If they're not, the first team manager has the final say. As current first team manager, Brendan Rodgers is a member of the transfer committee - not its victim, or a supplicant. He is involved in all its decisions - he is not presented with take it or leave it deals - and, as he has said, he has both the first word and the final word on all transfers - other than Werner's final financial decision.

Rodgers identifies the kind of player he wants, often he tells the rest of the committee who he wants. They then search for the right player or assess Rodger's recommendation. Fabio Borini was recommended by Rodgers.

To say that Mario Balotelli was not a Brendan Rodgers' signing is simply untrue - unless you are going to say that NO signings are Brendan Rodgers' signings. If at the late stage of the transfer window, the committee felt that Mario was the only acceptable candidate, then Rodgers was part of that process and had to approve the decision. He should bear his fair share of the responsibility for leaving it so late to sign a striker and for the decision to sign Mario.

As coach he should also take responsibility for his failure to make decent use of the player so far.

My opinion - for what little it's worth - is that Mario may still come good for Liverpool but whether he does or not, Rodgers and his apologists cannot claim credit for every good decision and pass the buck on the ones that don't pay off. Three months ago, people were blaming The Committee for everything. Now that most of the signings are bedded in and beginning to pay off, they're praising Brendan Rodgers for turning it all around and forgotten all about the Committee.

To be fair, I don't think I've ever seen Rodgers claim that Mario was "forced" on him. Although he may did leak as much through his regular mouthpiece James Pearce at the Echo. The most I've seen from him was something to the effect that signing Mario was a "calculated gamble" given the club's need.

You can't be arsed ? Well in that case neither can I. *consigns unread drivel to the trash*

 

[RexHamilton]

Bollocks we would. We have said right from the beginning he was a Committee purchase. Suggest you read or search the thread before jumping in at the deep end where the water is way over your head.

 

[Barney]

Great result. Such a controlled performance. Henderson was the best player on the pitch by a mile. Don't think anyone performed badly. Lovren has had another decent game. One pass that left me wondering what he was thinking, but other than that he was sound. Annoying that all of our rivals won as well, but it's important that we managed to win too. Onto the FA Cup.

 

[Alex99]

Sanchez was the player that we aimed to replace Suarez with. If we had managed to sign him, then it would have been at the expense of Balotelli, not Lallana. I think Balotelli is the closest you could come to calling any of our signings a "Suarez replacement", but even then, I think the idea was that the responsibility would be spread around the team. We needed additional attacking players whether Suarez stayed or left.

Yes, the responsibility has been spread around the team, and Lallana was signed to take up some of that responsibility, which is exactly what I said. Balotelli was also signed to take on some of that responsibility, as were Lambert and Markovic to a lesser extent.

You may have needed additional attacking players, but I'm not sure you'd have necessarily managed to sign them. Had you not sold Suarez, I reckon you'd have had a transfer budget of about £30 million. There is no way Adam Lallana would have been joining if that was the case, and I think your window would have looked something more like Can, Lambert, Moreno and Manquillo, with the possible addition of a different winger for ~£10 million.

I'm not convinced Liverpool have that much left to spend on transfers anymore, and if you don't make CL football this season you're going to really struggle to invest for next season. Rodgers has been given a fair wedge to spend on the squad since his arrival, and a lot of his signings have been okay at best, no matter how you want to dress it up.

I don't think there was ever any real interest in Sanchez, which is why he signed for Arsenal fairly quickly. I've seen it argued that it would have been a wage issue, but even then I don't buy that as an excuse to be honest. Suarez must have been earning a pretty decent amount, having signed a new contract during the season, and Balotelli, Lallana, Toure and Lovren must be earning a fair amount between them. I fail to see how a club that had just shifted one of their top earners for £75 million can claim that they couldn't spend ~£40 million on a top class player and pay him the going rate, when they spent £117 million on 9 players, and presumably pay them to play football, such is the tradition. That said, had you signed a Sanchez-type player, I don't think you'd have been seeing Lallana as well because your financial structure wouldn't have allowed for it.

I think Liverpool are still in need of a decent central defender (join the queue), as well as another decent full-back, central midfielder, striker, and possibly a goalkeeper too. Rodgers won't be afforded another £100 million+ summer, and frankly he's wasted a great deal of the funds that have been made available to him.

Back on track though, United fans consider Blind a success because he does the job he was signed to do very well. I don't think the same can be argued for Lallana. I also don't think taking the Balotelli gamble was a bad idea, given the needs of the squad at the time, but Rodgers' management of him as been awful.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

Glad to hear Coutinho did not score, I couldn't take another one of Brenton's sermons anointing him the best thing to happen to mankind since shaved vagina.

 

[Rafateria]

Glad to hear Coutinho did not score, I couldn't take another one of Brenton's sermons anointing him the best thing to happen to mankind since shaved vagina.

Ha Ha - well I don't there has ever been a player to compete with that However on the BBC (or is it Sky ? I forget) poll, Coutinho was leading the Player of the Season poll 38% to Cazorla's 35%, (no-one else near of course). I wonder how the real voting will go - hasn't it been decided already, like last month or something ridiculous ?

 

[Rooney in Paris]

What? Not Sanchez?

 

[B20]

http://www.footytube.com/video/liverpool-burnley-mar04-339943?ref=tchan_ov_vidgrid

That move on 30 seconds.

 

[Rafateria]

What? Not Sanchez?

He's been generally excellent hasn't he. But I think I'd go along with Cazorla as their most influential player this season. Close though.

 

[RexHamilton]

Ha Ha - well I don't there has ever been a player to compete with that However on the BBC (or is it Sky ? I forget) poll, Coutinho was leading the Player of the Season poll 38% to Cazorla's 35%, (no-one else near of course). I wonder how the real voting will go - hasn't it been decided already, like last month or something ridiculous ?

I'm pretty sure that was Player of 2015 so far, not the season. Still good though, as he has been very impressive in the last few months.

 

[Barney]

I'm pretty sure that was Player of 2015 so far, not the season. Still good though, as he has been very impressive in the last few months.

That would make more sense.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Yeah cos the other one makes no sense at all.

 

[Dumbstar]

http://www.footytube.com/video/liverpool-burnley-mar04-339943?ref=tchan_ov_vidgrid

That move on 30 seconds.

Just like the old days except with Suarez-lite Lallana to Sturridge. You can see Sturridge's sharpness is returning. I pity the fool standing in his way.

I think everyone's had some serious shooting training from outside the box, even Allen tried it and nearly scored. We've found a workaround for teams putting 9 men in their penalty box stopping our 1-2s.

 

[redman5]

And as soon as you're ready, you can let me know how any of that relates to a discussion on Rodgers' transfer record with Liverpool. Or if you prefer to deflect into something else entirely different, then feel free.

Who exactly sets the criteria for what constitutes a good, bad, or indifferent signing ? It's highly subjective anyway, & highly polarised, because you've got different 2 sets of supporters who see different things in a player. Adam Lallana for example. Brendan Rodgers most expensive signing at £25 million. When you watch him play do you factor in the amount of work he does off the ball by pressing the opposition ? Or is your opinion purely based on what he does when he has the ball ? Seeing as 'pressing' is a key component of how our manager sets his team out to play, I feel that Lallana is a very good buy. He may not fit into your football team, but for us he's a very good player. It's the 'whole being greater than the sum of it's parts' concept.

 

[B20]

Lallana is a good player, whom we haven't seen the best of so far, that also needs to brush up his game a bit for this level (generally, he takes far too many touches on the ball), but is doing fine so far.

He was well overpriced, but as a player I am quite happy to have him in the squad. Think we won't see him kick on properly until next season. There is a big difference between being the trusted fulcrum of a team like southampton and having to deliver for a club like liverpool in whatever role you get thrust into and I think he might not be quite there yet mentally. Stepping up from a smaller club to a bigger one is often a bigger adjustment than coming to a new league.

Wouldn't say he's been very good for us. But he's exactly the sort of player you want to have in the squad when looking at squad depth - A player just about good enough to be a regular starter who can push himself into that contention with a bit of improvement.

 

[Barney]

The charity match on March 29th has been confirmed. Gerrard and Carragher will captain each team. Suarez, Alonso, Reina, Kuyt, Arbeloa and Torres are just a few of the ex-Liverpool stars who will play. Henry, Drogba and Terry will also be playing. Fair fecks to them for supporting this. Liverpool players who are not on international duty will also play. Much rather watch this than the international friendlies.

 

[Barney]

Balotelli is an idiot. He posted a picture of the team celebrating on the pitch after last night's win with the caption "Someone doesn't Like me But differently of what they say about me im a team player and im so proud of my team,of this win and of these fans! let's keep going bravi ragazzi!!! YAWN !!!

Wonder who that's aimed at?

 

[Boycott]

Is Owen involved in the charity match?

 

[cesc's_mullet]

The charity match on March 29th has been confirmed. Gerrard and Carragher will captain each team. Suarez, Alonso, Reina, Kuyt, Arbeloa and Torres are just a few of the ex-Liverpool stars who will play. Henry, Drogba and Terry will also be playing. Fair fecks to them for supporting this. Liverpool players who are not on international duty will also play. Much rather watch this than the international friendlies.

Great stuff

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Balotelli is an idiot. He posted a picture of the team celebrating on the pitch after last night's win with the caption "Someone doesn't Like me But differently of what they say about me im a team player and im so proud of my team,of this win and of these fans! let's keep going bravi ragazzi!!! YAWN !!!

Wonder who that's aimed at?

Gerrard or Rodgers?