I wonder if they'll be given so many penalties this season?
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
So will your new manager and signings and given the terrible performances from a large amount of United players last season they will have to 'click' into gear very quickly as well. Is this not a big concern for United fans or is it only Liverpool who will have to adjust to new circumstances?
He is talking about Liverpool in that post and not comparing anything.
Fair enough, but given that Liverpool's top 4 fate is also, in part, reliant upon the form of immediate rivals I believe the direct comparison is necessary and has been brought up by many posters already when discussing why Liverpool will struggle.
Yes, we will have to click as well. It's not such a concern for me because I know LVG is quality and proven for years. Hence I say it's interesting and challenging season for B-rod, pull this thru he's a very good manager, if he's back to 5-6th and people will take last season as a fluke
The difference is that with the United you have a bunch of players with a history of success and 1 poor season behind them. A good number of our squad have multiple PL winners medals lest we forget. They've not turned into puncbags off the back of one season. The trick for LVG is about getting them back into the groove, not making them winners for the first time. And LVG has a decent record of getting his players playing well.
With Liverpool most of the players have no history of success and 1 good season behind them. That might be about natural progression upwards, or it might be a nicely timed run of form that's now come to an end, with the club reverting back to type.
Either way, if we see regression to the mean for both clubs, it'll see Liverpool having a harder time than United.
How can you all make such sweeping predictions when there is still so much of the window to go and so so many unknowns for next season?
I do find this an odd qualification as to why United are in better shape. LvG's track record is great but also a tad dated in terms of club management. He's never managed in the PL and is inheriting a squad in need of repair. There's work to be done. By contrast Rodgers begins his third season in charge of a team that he has built and whose individuals have impressed in the past 12 months, mainly due to Rodgers' apparent ability to improve players - Suarez, Henderson, Flanagan, Gerrard, Sturridge all seemed significantly better players last season than in previous seasons - add to that the way he has handled Sterling's rise.
The notion that LvG is a better pair of hands in the PL than Rodgers is a bit black-and-white and simplistic.
I don't know - many have already written us off before either the window closes or a ball is kicked.
I think this notion that our squad is filled with sleeping giants is a bit far fetched. Even the last season we won the title, there were a lot of tag-along's. The squad needs a good trimming down.
Yep you are correct in many things you say pickle but managers will only do so much. And the transfer window will have a big say imho on how teams shape up. So far Liverpool have lost their best player and their second most influential player Gerrard is slowing down. United have lost the experience of Rio Giggs Vidic. Whoever buys best will be favourites to finish higher imo and so far both have done just above decent.
You're being written off because you've lost a special cnut of a player. You won't have the fear factor that you had with Suarez in the team last season, that's obvious. Teams sat back because of him and he could make things happen out of nowhere. Even the most delusional of your fanbase will be half admitting that you are a significantly worse team without him.
Your signings so far have also been underwhelming.
I think this attitude is music to the whole league's ears. Plus, I very much doubt LvG will share such a basic opinion of his squad as he gets going - "well they have won loads of stuff before so they'll do it again" - I just don't see it.
In 1991 the majority of Liverpool players had won loads of stuff but the spell had been broken and a new manager failed to sustain the success of the ancient regime. While I think United's infrastructure is much better than Liverpool's in the early 90's (so recovery is more feasible) the same trap is there waiting for the club. I honestly think the current squad (without the new signings) wasn't good enough anymore. It needs revamping and LvG will not do his clear out based on each player's medal count. In fairness, I think Moyes was well aware of this and had plans to make big changes. On that issue, I think Moyes was dead on the money, but wasn't the man to carry it out.
I know football fans tend to be in the business of making predictions with little basis in fact but its so so early.
We don't know how Liverpool's signings will do or how so many of them will settle in quickly. We don't know how Rodgers will handle the expectations now of a title challenge and juggling multiple competitions. I'm sure teams will approach them differently as well.
We don't know how LVG will fit in at Man Utd and what proportion of last season was a) from the managers side and from the players side and b) can be reversed in just one season.
We don't know if the trophy win and adding another excellent player will push Arsenal on from 4th.
We don't know if a lot of the Spurs players that underperformed last season will do this season with a year in this country under their belts and a less tumultuous relationship of the higher ups.
We don't know how Martinez will do in his 2nd season at Everton, how he will cope with the Europa league etc etc.
I genuinely think all of the top 7 teams next season could finish in the top 4 and any of them could drop out. Of course, some of them are far more likely to be finishing in the top 4 (I'm finding it very difficult to look beyond Chelsea for the title at the moment and Man City are the other ones who are unlikely to drop out) but I think it will be a very interesting battle at the top next year.
We don't know how Liverpool's signings will do or how so many of them will settle in quickly. We don't know how Rodgers will handle the expectations now of a title challenge and juggling multiple competitions. I'm sure teams will approach them differently as well.
We don't know how LVG will fit in at Man Utd and what proportion of last season was a) from the managers side and from the players side and b) can be reversed in just one season.
We don't know if the trophy win and adding another excellent player will push Arsenal on from 4th.
We don't know if a lot of the Spurs players that underperformed last season will do this season with a year in this country under their belts and a less tumultuous relationship of the higher ups.
We don't know how Martinez will do in his 2nd season at Everton, how he will cope with the Europa league etc etc.
I genuinely think all of the top 7 teams next season could finish in the top 4 and any of them could drop out. Of course, some of them are far more likely to be finishing in the top 4 (I'm finding it very difficult to look beyond Chelsea for the title at the moment and Man City are the other ones who are unlikely to drop out) but I think it will be a very interesting battle at the top next year.
That's a fair assessment, although I do think the managers will have a big say in the fortunes of their teams.
Of course I agree but the better the tools the easier the job.
Probably not that simple. But it's not that odd, in every job in the world experience and CV counts for something
But I don't think it's absurd to say that at this moment in time LVG >>>> Rodgers for what he has done, and mind you he just finished 3rd in the WC just last week, it's not like he's absence from the game for years.
Probably when I do the United squad this season it will be reflected, but this is not the thread for that.
But..but Rodgers finished 2nd last season and made Stevie G and the fans dream. That surely erases all of LVG's achievements?
Our signings have been good, 2 proven Premier League players who will add depth & quality to our squad. You know a lot about Emre Can and Markovic then do you?
Oh my, How can i forget that. To achieve 2nd with that squad must have been greater than the Italian Job.
But, wasn't it that they have the best squad in the world for every position?
I regard that as compelling evidence as to why Rodgers is someone who should be regarded as quality rather than a point of ridicule. Odd.
Stop talking sense mate.
Isn't the RAWK thread the home of such 'bants'?
I was under the impression that you'd have to finish 2nd for more than one season to be regarded as 'quality'. Even at that it's debatable, seeing as 2nd place doesn't win you any trophies.
I don't get how so many United fans are convinced that Liverpool will fail this year. I hope they do, but I don't see it happening. They have a great manager in Rodgers (anyone who disagrees has been in a coma since the appointment of Moyes), a young and hungry squad, and are adding good players to the team.
More than anything, they have a philosophy to their play. I would have to look back to the United of 07/08 to remember the last time that I watched a team look so threatening on every single attack. The way they demolished team after team last season was admirable, and great fun to watch
.
The one argument that other fans are using to downplay Liverpool's hopes is obviously Suarez. And while he both scored and assisted so many, Liverpool could and should fare well without him. He was a catalyst in their team, but they've gone about their business well. If they can add one more quality striker to their ranks they'll have every chance of finishing higher than us in the table. It's up to Rodgers to make the right decisions and to make sure that his team can still perform week in week out. Europe will provide him with a heavier burden, but he's already proven that he's up for the occasion.
More than anything, they have a philosophy to their play. I would have to look back to the United of 07/08 to remember the last time that I watched a team look so threatening on every single attack. The way they demolished team after team last season was admirable, and great fun to watch
.The one argument that other fans are using to downplay Liverpool's hopes is obviously Suarez. And while he both scored and assisted so many, Liverpool could and should fare well without him. He was a catalyst in their team, but they've gone about their business well. If they can add one more quality striker to their ranks they'll have every chance of finishing higher than us in the table. It's up to Rodgers to make the right decisions and to make sure that his team can still perform week in week out. Europe will provide him with a heavier burden, but he's already proven that he's up for the occasion.
I don't get how so many United fans are convinced that Liverpool will fail this year. I hope they do, but I don't see it happening. They have a great manager in Rodgers (anyone who disagrees has been in a coma since the appointment of Moyes), a young and hungry squad, and are adding good players to the team.
More than anything, they have a philosophy to their play. I would have to look back to the United of 07/08 to remember the last time that I watched a team look so threatening on every single attack. The way they demolished team after team last season was admirable, and great fun to watch
The one argument that other fans are using to downplay Liverpool's hopes is obviously Suarez. And while he both scored and assisted so many, Liverpool could and should fare well without him. He was a catalyst in their team, but they've gone about their business well. If they can add one more quality striker to their ranks they'll have every chance of finishing higher than us in the table. It's up to Rodgers to make the right decisions and to make sure that his team can still perform week in week out. Europe will provide him with a heavier burden, but he's already proven that he's up for the occasion.
Great points. It would be naive to say selling Suarez won't make any difference, however a stronger squad will bridge that gap. Our bench was very weak last season and already I can see that being a problem resolved.
That said it would be still nice to get a quality striker signed up.
Was just biting his sarcasm. LOL
I don't get how so many United fans are convinced that Liverpool will fail this year. I hope they do, but I don't see it happening. They have a great manager in Rodgers (anyone who disagrees has been in a coma since the appointment of Moyes), a young and hungry squad, and are adding good players to the team.
More than anything, they have a philosophy to their play. I would have to look back to the United of 07/08 to remember the last time that I watched a team look so threatening on every single attack. The way they demolished team after team last season was admirable, and great fun to watch
The one argument that other fans are using to downplay Liverpool's hopes is obviously Suarez. And while he both scored and assisted so many, Liverpool could and should fare well without him. He was a catalyst in their team, but they've gone about their business well. If they can add one more quality striker to their ranks they'll have every chance of finishing higher than us in the table. It's up to Rodgers to make the right decisions and to make sure that his team can still perform week in week out. Europe will provide him with a heavier burden, but he's already proven that he's up for the occasion.
not really, I for once didn't think they will fail, it's just that City and Chelsea are getting stronger, and so is manchester United (how stronger, I don't know, but defo not as bad as last year), Arsenal and Spurs are always there or thereabout 4th that is.
There's nothing wrong with suggesting that Liverpool won't hold that runner up spot so easy, even for Chelsea and City is not that easy, just more likely
Depends what you consider fail. I wouldn't expect them to collapse completely, but looking at their squad and then ours and Citys and Arsenals, which would you rather have?
No problem with thinking that. My post was directed to those claiming they'd end up 8th in the table while we would surely be competing for a spot in the top four.
Obviously one of Chelsea's, City's, and Arsenal's. In that order. I was just calling out those claiming that Liverpool were definitely going to end up within 8th in the table.
Agreed. Any potential damage to Sturridge would be worrying.
Fair do's
I think there are gradations to "quality" and I accept that sustained high finishes would be a truer test of a manager's abilities, but to almost use the 2nd place finish against Rodgers seems odd. He's had a remarkable season given the starting point of his squad. I would say that indicated quality in itself.
You look at Liverpool's squad and can't name a single world class talent with Suarez gone. Chelsea have Hazard, Fabregas, Costa, Cech/Courtois, Man City have Silva, Toure, Aguero and Kompany, Arsenal have Ozil and Sanchez and we have Mata, Rooney, RVP and De Gea.
Unless Liverpool bring in another talisman, a player that opponents are going to genuinely fear, I can see them being a total flash in the pan and ultimately repeating Spurs' mistakes.
Unless Liverpool bring in another talisman, a player that opponents are going to genuinely fear, I can see them being a total flash in the pan and ultimately repeating Spurs' mistakes.
To be fair last season most people would say we had a weaker squad than those then too.
World Class is a term used far too often, Rooney & Mata are not "world class" and neither are some of the others.
Meaningless goading.
The reality is that a short term measure is rarely as good as a longer one. Remember, despite our diabolical season last year, by New Years Day the difference between Liverpool and United was only 5 points. The only difference after 5 months and 20 games was the head to head between the two. So even until Xmas last year Liverpool were hardly pulling up trees. When you lost to Arsenal away, there was no sense of it being a big result for them, just another normal Liverpool loss.
What made Liverpool's excellent season was a run of a couple of draws and wins followed by 11 (i think it was) wins on the bounce after Xmas, after which you reverted to type with a loss, win and draw in the last three games. Essentially your view for the coming year is based on that short period. However it might be that the 4 month period was the exception, and the previous 18 months were the norm.
Clearly United need work on the squad, I don't think that's news to anyone, hence our activity in the market so far. However its also true that RvP, Rooney, Carrick, Rafael and Mata all went from being amongst the best in the league to various levels of mediocre in a single season. It could be that each of these players is finished, never to return. Or it could be a poor run of form and they'll revert to the level they've shown through most of their careers.
Similarly, maybe players like Jones, Smalling, Evans, Wellbeck and Hernandez just had a couple of seasons of being good squad options who have finally shown their lack of talent. Or they could go back to the level they've shown throughout their careers and be a decent back up when called upon.
My guess is that the extreme for neither club will turn out to be the case. I think that several of our key players will get back to their typical level and perform well next season. In their case that means being up there with the best in the league. I also suspect that some of our squad players will get their game back on. No doubt some won't, and our success of failure will depend on who performs.
Similarly I doubt that Liverpool will drop back to 7th, but neither do I think they'll be dropping regular 11 game winning runs. I suspect a level of form and consistency somewhere between the pre-Xmas and the post-Xmas Liverpool is what we'll see.
You had Suarez though. I don't think it's totally getting through how big of a deal that is. Rival fans have been begging one of the Spanish giants to take him off you and it's happened.
Happy days.
There's also the argument that teams don't play on paper and that Liverpool as a TEAM looked more fluid than all of those teams for longer periods last season. Fluidity and tempo that I rarely see with attacks coming from all angles and harrying in midfield with great effect. To simply use Suarez as the only reason for that style of play is daft. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts when it comes to Liverpool. Furthermore, last season some of Liverpool's players were better than United's world class players so (AGAIN) the simplicity of the argument ignores more subtle factors that are being wilfully ignored to concoct an image of Liverpool in demise.
Last season:
Sturridge > Rooney & RvP
Sterling & Coutinho > Mata
Quite apart from anything else Sturridge was more effective than Rooney & Mata last season. So is he not "world class too"?
World Class - Ronaldo & Messi. Rooney and some of the other mentioned you are having a laugh.