It's not a jibe. United's midfield has, on occasion, gone missing this season and left the back line exposed as it is a tad slow and ponderous. Good on the ball but not on the press. I'm not here to big-up Wanyama but it is shaky ground for a United fan to start taking the piss out of a player who would actually do a job in United's current midfield. He'd get in over MF any day of the week.
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
1) In the midfield 3 that Van Gaal is implementing, no, Wanyama wouldn't get in in front of our current options, that's how good our buying in that sector has been this summer.
2) People weren't taking the piss at Wanyama who's a decent player. They were taking the piss at you, really.
2) People weren't taking the piss at Wanyama who's a decent player. They were taking the piss at you, really.
He's started started less than half their league games (four), of which they only won one, a 2-1 victory over QPR.
Oooh
Seriously though. Wanyama was poor whenever I saw him last season. He might have improved this, but I doubt it.
You're stuck in the 2013/14 season mate. We don't have Cleverley anymore, we have Blind, Herrera and Di Maria.
I've found a gif of our Liverpool posters after any of their losses.
You're right! It's almost as if I wasn't around when we finished 7th or when we lost to Palace or Chelsea.
Absolutely not. Gerrard should not retire anywhere else. Comparing Gerrard and Lampard isn't right either. Gerrard is a one club man, a life long Liverpool supporter and our captain.
You won't be able to attract players of that class though. You'll have to go back to Southampton and buy Wanyama.
We'd easily be able to pick up a Portuguese club's biggest talent. Fabregas probably not.
The first two are upgradable to be fair. That said, I don't think Wanyama improves you. Schneiderlin would have been a better example.
He can't even get into the Southampton midfield at the moment!
(Barring the odd cup outing.)
Now Schneiderlin I would take. Think he is a very good player.
Good to see you back by the way.
I can only assume you're a poor judge of a player then.
No, it's not. It's relatively average, but it certainly isn't abysmal. The italicised players are ones who could end up being sold for more money than we paid for them, so while they haven't performed for us (either due to a lack of chances or just for being average) they haven't been awful signings if you can turn a profit. The ones with * next to their name indicates that so far they have shown enough while they've been here (or on loan) even if they've all played less than 15 games (so obviously this could also change).
Good:
Joe Allen
Sturridge
Coutinho
Ok:
Mignolet
Toure
Sakho
Cissokho
Bad:
Borini
Assaidi
Sahin
Aspas
Alberto
Moses
Undecided:
Yesil
Teixeira
Ilori*
Lambert
Lallana*
Can*
Markovic
Lovren
Origi*
Manquillo*
Moreno*
Balotelli
Allen and Cissokho both move down one for mine. Though I realise Cissokho wasn't there long, but he was poor like Moses.
That seems very generous to Allen, Toure and Cissokho. I'd have Sturridge and Coutinho under great and then a sizable gap. Sakho, Mignolet and Allen under okay, and the rest in the bin.
The ones you've asterisked seem accurate, though I don't think Ilori will make it.
The ones you've asterisked seem accurate, though I don't think Ilori will make it.
Nah, Moses was abysmal. Cissokho did a job and considering we got him for nothimg on loan he wasn't bad. Awful attacking, but solid defensively.
Allen has definitely been a good signing for us. If you gave Rodgers £15m to spend again and asked him would he sign Allen if he could do it over, I would and he probably would too.
Toure, like Cissokho, was exactly what was advertised. He's done a solid job (with a couple of comedy errors thrown in). Why don't you think Ilori will make it? I also think Markovic will make it here, but he's not shown enough yet.
Allen is bang average. Good work rate and that's literally it. He just runs around like a headless chicken and panics when he gets on the ball.
More Like:
Good:
Sturridge
Coutinho
Ok:
Joe Allen
Bad:
Balotelli --- Yes, already.
Mignolet
Toure
Cissokho
Borini
Assaidi
Sahin
Aspas
Alberto
Moses
Undecided:
Sakho
Yesil
Teixeira
Ilori*
Lambert
Lallana*
Can*
Markovic
Lovren
Origi*
Manquillo*
Moreno*
Thats a pretty terrible record. Even Sturridge is injury prone and Coutinho suspect to consistency.
Good:
Sturridge
Coutinho
Ok:
Joe Allen
Bad:
Balotelli --- Yes, already.
Mignolet
Toure
Cissokho
Borini
Assaidi
Sahin
Aspas
Alberto
Moses
Undecided:
Sakho
Yesil
Teixeira
Ilori*
Lambert
Lallana*
Can*
Markovic
Lovren
Origi*
Manquillo*
Moreno*
Thats a pretty terrible record. Even Sturridge is injury prone and Coutinho suspect to consistency.
You expect me to back up my throwaway opinions? Madness! I dunno, it's based on very little, a gut feeling perhaps. He is only young, but doesn't seem to have gotten much football on his loan spells. I just think he's less likely to make it than the others that you've asterisked.
It doesn't really matter that they were 'exactly what was advertised' when what was advertised was poor. They were both poor signings.
Toure has been a good fourth choice centre back and Cissokho was a solid left back defensively. They weren't bad.
Cissokho was solid? Feck me that's a claim!
Never gets old.
I can tell we won't agree on this. For the simple reason that, even if I completely accept that list as you've put it and with the caveats you make, I think that's really poor. Forget the details for a moment, and just step back and look at the bigger picture - 25 new players, £220M spent in two years - and just 3 clear successes. You think that's even average?
Even then, in the first section, Joe Allen as 'good' is entirely relative. He's a useful squad player. You paid £15M for him. I don't think he's a failure because he fills a certain role, but neither do I think it counts as a particularly good business.
The fact that you can sell a few players at a profit is irrelevant. That only counts as good transfer business if you bought them in order to sell them at a profit. As far as I know the only reason Liverpool have bought the players above is to perform well on the pitch. They were, or will be, sold because they failed to do so.
In the undecided section are most of this season's buys, who of course you can't judge properly. However you can look at someone's trajectory based on performances so far. Put it this way, if we did this exercise with United players, you'd be putting Di Maria, Blind and Herrera in the 'good' section. With caveats of course, as 6 games is too few to be sure. Maybe we'd make a new category called 'Good So Far'. But I don't think it would be particularly contentious to say they've been successful.
But when you look at the Liverpool new buys, none of them can be said to be looking good yet, even allowing for the tiny amount of time we're talking about. Lallana and Moreno look the most likely, but even then the mediocre or poor at least matches the good. Manquillo and Lambert look like they'll be forgotten real soon. Markovich looks a huge waste of money & Balotelli, while better than his reputation, is not on course to be a success by any means. Lovren looks really poor whenever I see him and at the price Rodgers paid, even more so. Can, can't really say.
Beyond that you have a few young players who I think are out on loan. However only Origi seems reasonably likely to come back and go into the Liverpool first team squad in the future. The rest seem to be 20/21 years old and more likely to leave than get into the senior squad, and hence will probably sit firmly in the 'Bad' camp.
In the end its subjective of course. But all I can say is that I'd be delighted if Rodgers kept spending money at the rate he has been, and on the players he's been buying. Maybe we're both happy then?
Only Sturridge has been consistently good as well. Coutinho disappeared for a while.
First off, with a lot of those players it's been to soon to say whether they are successes or not. How the feck can you say that Emre Can is or is not a success when he's played less than five games for the club? Saying there's been 25 players brought in doesn't account for the players that we cannot judge yet. Bit misleading. Same with saying 220m has been spent with only 3 successes. 120m of that was spent this summer and, really, it is too soon to tell who out of that group will and won't be a success.
I think it would be very contentious to say a signing has been successful at this point in the season. Rojo looks awful, but I don't think it would be fair to write a defender off when he's played less than ten games for his new club. I won't be doing that with any signing just yet, I'd give them at least a season and even then you have to keep in mind that players can turn bad seasons around (see Henderson and Lucas).
Lallana, Moreno, Can, Manquillo and Origi (for Lille) have all looked good out of this summer's business. I'm not sure what you mean with Manquillo being forgotten soon, he's looked a very good addition and one that I and most other Liverpool supporters hope we make permanent. You're judging a 20 year old Markovic when he's played less than five games in a new league and missed most of pre-season. That is ridiculous.
As for players on loan, you've just gone and massively made that section up. Origi and Ilori are both rated massively by the club. You've not seen any of Ilori, have you, so how can you say he is or isn't likely? Ibe is also rated massively and he will definitely have a big future at the club. Teixiera has been a late developer for his entire career and has been one of the very few bright spots at Brighton. He likely won't make it here because we already have a lot of talent in his position, but we'll turn a profit on him quite comfortably I expect.
Balotelli in the bad camp already...Coutinho was still very good last season and his first half-season he showed brilliant form. Yes he's inconsistent, but what players not named Ronaldo, Messi and Suarez aren't?
First off, with a lot of those players it's been to soon to say whether they are successes or not. How the feck can you say that Emre Can is or is not a success when he's played less than five games for the club? Saying there's been 25 players brought in doesn't account for the players that we cannot judge yet. Bit misleading. Same with saying 220m has been spent with only 3 successes. 120m of that was spent this summer and, really, it is too soon to tell who out of that group will and won't be a success.
I think it would be very contentious to say a signing has been successful at this point in the season. Rojo looks awful, but I don't think it would be fair to write a defender off when he's played less than ten games for his new club. I won't be doing that with any signing just yet, I'd give them at least a season and even then you have to keep in mind that players can turn bad seasons around (see Henderson and Lucas).
Lallana, Moreno, Can, Manquillo and Origi (for Lille) have all looked good out of this summer's business. I'm not sure what you mean with Manquillo being forgotten soon, he's looked a very good addition and one that I and most other Liverpool supporters hope we make permanent. You're judging a 20 year old Markovic when he's played less than five games in a new league and missed most of pre-season. That is ridiculous.
As for players on loan, you've just gone and massively made that section up. Origi and Ilori are both rated massively by the club. You've not seen any of Ilori, have you, so how can you say he is or isn't likely? Ibe is also rated massively and he will definitely have a big future at the club. Teixiera has been a late developer for his entire career and has been one of the very few bright spots at Brighton. He likely won't make it here because we already have a lot of talent in his position, but we'll turn a profit on him quite comfortably I expect.
Coutinho was still very good last season and his first half-season he showed brilliant form. Yes he's inconsistent, but what players not named Ronaldo, Messi and Suarez aren't?
One thing i'll give you about the undecided list is that they're all young players who are still improving (Lambert aside
)i'd imagine the average age is prob only 22 or 23.
One thing i'll give you about the undecided list is that they're all young players who are still improving (Lambert aside
i'd imagine the average age is prob only 22 or 23.
Our side is a very young one. Sturridge, Origi, Balotelli, Sterling, Ibe, Suso, Henderson, Coutinho, Can, Markovic, Allen, Manquillo, Moreno, Ilori, Sakho and the likes of Wilson and Rossiter who should make it here.
How many premier league goals has he scored this season?
After looking that up perhaps you can understand why some put him in the bad camp, I am not saying that is my opinion but your laughing smiley suggests you cannot possibly understand why somebody would put him in the bad camp so soon.
If zero premier league goals in the first seven games is what you want from your strikers then fair enough but it is my opinion that even a mid table club like Liverpool (average position of 6th across the last 5 seasons, medium position of 7th) should be expecting at least one goal from their striker in 7 premier league games.
Should we expect more? Obviously. Is it ludicrous to call a signing a bad one after 10 or so games? Absolutely.
Balotelli has played 233 career games, you do not expect posters on here to completely ignore his time before Liverpool do you?
It is a different story if the player had been impressive however these 10 or so games simply are consistent with the predictions made by all but Liverpool fans when he was signed. It is not ludicrous (so foolish, unreasonable, or out of place as to be amusing) to call him a bad signing.
Agger would have been a better fourth choice centre back, he'll I'd have agger as first choice if I was a liverpool fan [shudder]
Yeah I do when they're judging whether or not he's been a good signing for Liverpool. It is absolutely ludicrous, foolish and unreasonable to call anyone a bad signing at this point.
Paying Agger £120k a week to be fourth choice isn't an option. Not to mention he wouldn't accept that.
maybe don't have agger as fourth choice, aside from his injuries he was your best defender, better than toure for sure, and sahko and skertl in my book, if I was rodgers I'd play agger and lovern rather than freezing agger out. Sell toure and skertl and promote one of the youth....
Anyway, no way agger is on £120k now.....
Sakho is a better defender and Lovren last year wwas better than Agger has been at any point under Rodgers. Agger at his best was top class and one of my favourite players, but sadly he hadn't shown any type of form under Rodgers.
Not anymore, but when he was here he was.
The judgement started before he had played even one game.
Posters looked at his history, you seem to be suggesting arriving at Liverpool completely wipes away what he has done in the past, if not then you must accept judging a player after 233 career games is not ludicrous.
Most players do not go from being (relatively) average to world class when they join Liverpool therefore one can judge whether he is or is not a good signing based on his history.
He has performed exactly as expected. That is not to say he cannot improve but simply unless he shows a major improvement to what he has done in his career then he will be a bad signing.
So you judge a player as a bad signing for a team before he's played a game for them and based only on his history? What?
He was invisible after his good start. Yes he had a good first half, but what about the second half? That is beyond just inconsistent.
This is just rewriting history in my view. Agger has looked worse under Rodgers than at any other (non-Hodgson) time at his career but that's down to Rodgers' failings. Despite that he's still been our best centre back since Rodgers took over, and who boasts the most impressive clean sheets/goals conceded recorded of any of our centre backs.
Not sure what relevance Lovren's form last season has? It wasn't any better than Agger at his pre-Rodgers best, all it shows is that under him, defenders turn to shit.
The injuries were a problem, but otherwise Rodgers' treatment of Agger (and our defence as a whole) has been dreadful. It's definitely the one area I think he needs to improve at the most.