Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense

langster said:
It's not a logical argument, and not one you will hear from me. If you look at my join date and post count, you will see i'm still a newbie. It's a shame I can't access my posts in the newbies to quote. I guarantee you though, although I defended Moyes at times, I was never a fan and certainly never agreed with the chosen one status and although I supported him, I didn't believe in him.

Moyes was destined to fail for many reasons but mainly because as pointed out above, he didn't rectify the problems that Sir Alex managed to gloss over and that was mainly in midfield and too many mediocre players. But that has all been covered time and time again. I'm also not one for bold statements. I am hugely superstitious when it comes to football and United. I never predict scores or wins etc, and I made a bit of an exception with my comment, but it was based on fair reasoning.

Liverpool sold their best player and replaced them with below par, average players. Some have potential agreed, but others look to be below standards. Lallana for instance looks like another Andy Carroll/Adams and was bought based on one good season in the prem. I admit he is a decent player, but he is not world class. Liverpool sold the worlds best striker and one of the top 5 players in the world. Not only that, but your only truly world class player. After finishing runners up last season and to compete against the worlds best in the CL you needed to strengthen. Defence was obviously key, especially considering Agger was sold. Midfield needed bolstering and as proven, Gerrard needed replacing and of course you needed a striker to replace Suarez.

Liverpool spent over £100 Million in the window and if you look at the number of players and quality, they don't really seem to be what was required or up to standard. Look at the quality your rivals have bought, on top of what they already have in their squads. Chelsea adding Fabregas and Costa, Arsenal bought Suarez and City who didn't need much have got rid of a couple and upgraded slightly and one with true world class potential in Mangala. We all know who United bought. Liverpools money could have been spent on better players and used to pay the wages of those players. Less is more. Certainly in Liverpools case this summer. Similar to Tottenham last year, although personally I think Tottenham did the better business. 3 or 4 top quality signings would have been far better than the 10 you did get. I think Rodgers fell in to the needing a huge squad to compete in all competitions trap. Ironically he has effectively nullified your chances of competing in any of them.

I agree it is too early to say either way about United or Liverpool, but one thing is perfectly clear and that is United have the better squad and now with a manager who has experience and history of winning major honours coupled with players who have also done so, and quite a few of those players won those trophies while at United. Then you add to the fact that Suarez leaving and Gerrard suffering badly AND having to bed in new players with a relatively inexperienced manager. That is the basis of me saying I can't see how anyone could say Liverpool will finish above United this season.

If I am wrong I will stand corrected and admit it, but looking at it objectively and rationally it would take a cock up of Moyes proportions for me to be wrong.
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I could address any one of @thegregster, @gasmanc, etc, who keep saying your world class squad and LvG's credentials will see you through this season but I will reply to you as you posted honestly and with good detail.

1. Brendan informed LvG the premiership is a different beast from all that he has seen before. Here the teams from the lower half of the table act like they are CL champions in all games they play (Burnely, West Ham, Leicester). Brendan was laughed at.

2. Utd's (Woodward's) answers to Utd's defensive problems were to sign world class attackers. The rest were padded out with Blind, Herrera and Rojo. All three I was confident would be defensively inept (certainly in the first season in the premiership). The 4-0 result against QPR had me whooping in silent joy when Armand Traore made Blind look like a not so speedy Mertersacker. A sign of things to come against Leicester I told myself. I just hope you keep persisting with Herrera and Blind in the middle for the bigger teams too. In fact you don't have much choice, the window's shut. Nice one Woodward.

3. Liverpool outscored opponents and finished 2nd to make up for their defensive frailties and Gerrard's leginess. But Brendan didn't do that in his first season at Liverpool. He finished 7th in his first season. LvG needs time, as do the players who have never seen a manager like him.

Like I said, its early to be making bold claims. I believe you now share that opinion? Yes?
 
You should be making progression with each game, Brentan has taken your defense nowhere, it's actually worse and he's had time and four windows to fix it.
We all know United is a work in progress, go look in the football forums, the "false dawn" thread gives a good indicator of who thinks what.
The bold claims have come from Liverpool fans and so far your 1 point ahead of a work in progress, if you want a not so bold claim, that point wont last very long.
 
Yesterday was fun, today reality kicked in.

I stick to my pre-season predication, Liverpool will finish ahead of us.
 
Brwned said:
Agger wanted to leave because he couldn't cope with the intensity of playing at the top level any more - nothing Rodgers can really do about that.
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He's gave an interview to Danish media tonight that contradicts all of that, which was probably just media friendly stuff for the official website.

It's all translated from Danish but the gist of it is that he and Rodgers didn't see eye to eye, he thinks Rodgers didn't like his honesty when asked about his thoughts and that he wasn't appreciated enough. Says he had enough so had to go.

More worryingly, says Brendan didn't speak to him for his last 8 months and a lot of his "injuries" were made up by the manager.

Really scathing interview, unsurprisingly from Agger who never holds back.

(He did also say that he thinks Rodgers is a great manager, just not one he sees eye to eye with).
 
Dumbstar said:
I could address any one of @thegregster, @gasmanc, etc, who keep saying your world class squad and LvG's credentials will see you through this season but I will reply to you as you posted honestly and with good detail.

1. Brendan informed LvG the premiership is a different beast from all that he has seen before. Here the teams from the lower half of the table act like they are CL champions in all games they play (Burnely, West Ham, Leicester). Brendan was laughed at.

2. Utd's (Woodward's) answers to Utd's defensive problems were to sign world class attackers. The rest were padded out with Blind, Herrera and Rojo. All three I was confident would be defensively inept (certainly in the first season in the premiership). The 4-0 result against QPR had me whooping in silent joy when Armand Traore made Blind look like a not so speedy Mertersacker. A sign of things to come against Leicester I told myself. I just hope you keep persisting with Herrera and Blind in the middle for the bigger teams too. In fact you don't have much choice, the window's shut. Nice one Woodward.

3. Liverpool outscored opponents and finished 2nd to make up for their defensive frailties and Gerrard's leginess. But Brendan didn't do that in his first season at Liverpool. He finished 7th in his first season. LvG needs time, as do the players who have never seen a manager like him.

Like I said, its early to be making bold claims. I believe you now share that opinion? Yes?
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Liverpool were challenging for the title last year. Now they are miles of it. They are going backwards fast. LVG will get it right. LVG is lucky this season that Liverpool,Everton,Spurs are just such ordinary teams. It will give us an excellent chance of 4th. Long term we will be fine. If Liverpool were as good as last season they would already be 7 points ahead of us. They are not and they have dropped 6 really bad points.
 
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Agger: The manager and I probably weren't at the same side last season, at least for the majority of the season. I felt very distanced to him, and to me that was just enough. I feel he didn't appreciate my qualities and my contributions. And when I feel this way it's time to get home

Interviewer: Is it true that the manager and you didn't speak properly for the whole of last season

Agger: Well, there weren't many conversions, let me put it that way

Interviewer: At the press conference for your return to Brøndby, you mention that when you weren't happy every time you went to practice, then it was time to leave. Why didn't you feel happy?

Agger: When you been a part of the starting eleven for several games in a row and the team have performed well, and you feel that you have played well yourself, then when you're left out of the team and don't feel appreciated, it starts to get into your mind, you wonder.

Interviewer: Did you feel angry?

Agger: Yeah, you get a little annoyed, and when you at the same time see the statistics from your game, which are so important all around the world of football, then you don't understand why you weren't used more often. It's all about being able to talk with all of your players and get them to perform as well as they can

Interviewer: Do you think Rodgers is a bad manager?

Agger: I think he is a great manager, you can't take that away from him. He's good in the way he trains the team and he is great at setting up the team. The things that went wrong between us is that I say things the way they are and I expect others to treat me the same way. Maybe it is wrong to always expect this

Interviewer: You showed great loyalty to Liverpool FC. Did you feel that Rodgers wasn't loyal to you?

Agger: At least I have learned a lot from last year. I have learned that a lot of players in the world of football only think of what is best for themselves. I haven't done that for the biggest part in my career. But with all that has been said and done and understand why players think think this way, even though it has been something I couldn't relate to in the past. It has been an eye opener.

___________

Let me add that BR only owes loyalty to Liverpool. That will often contradict with that which players feel is owed to them for their longevity at the club.
 
thegregster said:
Liverpool were challenging for the title last year. Now they are miles of it. They are going backwards fast. LVG will get it right. LVG is lucky this season that Liverpool,Everton,Spurs are just such ordinary teams. It will give us an excellent chance of 4th. Long term we will be fine. If Liverpool were as good as last season they would already be 7 points ahead of us. They are not and they have dropped 6 really bad points.
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After five matches that claim is absurd especially as you're using the same amount of games to suggest United will get it right.
 
PickledRed said:
After five matches that claim is absurd especially as you're using the same amount of games to suggest United will get it right.
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They have lost three games already. They hadn't lost three games till around Xmas last season.
 
Don't think Liverpool are going backwards. Without Sturridge they are clearly not the same team though, he makes such a difference. Similar to United though, until the defence is sorted nothing will be won.
 
ZDwyr said:
Don't think Liverpool are going backwards. Without Sturridge they are clearly not the same team though, he makes such a difference. Similar to United though, until the defence is sorted nothing will be won.
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Do you really think they will challenge for the title up to the last day or win it? If they don't could it not be argued they are regressing?
 
gasmanc said:
You should be making progression with each game, Brentan has taken your defense nowhere, it's actually worse and he's had time and four windows to fix it.
We all know United is a work in progress, go look in the football forums, the "false dawn" thread gives a good indicator of who thinks what.
The bold claims have come from Liverpool fans and so far your 1 point ahead of a work in progress, if you want a not so bold claim, that point wont last very long.
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The new liverpool back four has never played together. 2 of them are new to the premiership. It will take a while for them to adapt to each others games and the new league. I'm quite worried about Gerard though. I think he should be used sparingly and certainly not in three games in one week. All teams are a work in progress. It's how quickly you make that progress that matters. I don't think united are making a false dawn. I think Di Maria is class but they've made a large number of signings like liverpool and trying to find a balance is key. Liverpool have lost a focal point in attack and are trying to learn how to play with a Balotelli up top who is a completely different player. I think we'll both find our way but whoever sorts a run out faster will be top 4. I hope Rodgers gets the back 4 playing better and sticks with the same players for a while even if they make mistakes.
 
thegregster said:
Liverpool were challenging for the title last year. Now they are miles of it. They are going backwards fast. LVG will get it right. LVG is lucky this season that Liverpool,Everton,Spurs are just such ordinary teams. It will give us an excellent chance of 4th. Long term we will be fine. If Liverpool were as good as last season they would already be 7 points ahead of us. They are not and they have dropped 6 really bad points.
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I don't think liverpool will challenge for the title but I think it's a bit early to suggest we're miles off the pace. Sure it's only september.
 
ZDwyr said:
Don't think Liverpool are going backwards. Without Sturridge they are clearly not the same team though, he makes such a difference. Similar to United though, until the defence is sorted nothing will be won.
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Yeah I agree with you. We both have a ridiculously soft centre at the moment.
 
thegregster said:
Do you really think they will challenge for the title up to the last day or win it? If they don't could it not be argued they are regressing?
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Yeah, fair point. They have regressed. I don't think they are going backwards fast though, which is what was originally suggested. It was always going to be hard to improve when they lost the 3rd best player in the world though.
 
thegregster said:
Do you really think they will challenge for the title up to the last day or win it? If they don't could it not be argued they are regressing?
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But you're arguing it September. While I don't think Liverpool will challenge this year based on the strength of city and chelsea, I certainly wouldn't make predictions on a title run for any of the potential top 4 clubs in September.
 
ZDwyr said:
Yeah, fair point. They have regressed. I don't think they are going backwards fast though, which is what was originally suggested. It was always going to be hard to improve when they lost the 3rd best player in the world though.
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As I've mentioned numerous times I predicted we'd drop around 12 points for Suarez leaving alone. We've dropped 4 of those points from last seasons's results already. :(

Edit: Just realised we lost to Southampton at home last season, and we beat them this season. So that's a deficit of 1 point. Not sure I'm feeling any better.

The only saving grace is the likes of Everton and Spurs are also finding their feet. As are Man Utd. All this is just about buying us time to get Sturridge back fit again (yes we are quite reliant on him).
 
There are several factors in our poor results so far this term, we haven't had a settled team yet due to injuries coming into the season and 3 players we lost when on International Duty.
However, clearly there are a lot of issues - Gerrard & Lucas should never start a game together, it just doesn't work. Despite Can & Allen being injured the manager should still never have started them both against West Ham.
The protection the back 4 get isn't good enough, and also we have 3 new defenders in the team at the moment.
It is too early to judge but we are still conceding too many soft goals, and until that is resolved we are always going to have problems.

We lost our best player and none of the new players have settled yet. I honestly couldn't name our best starting 11, partly because Lallana has hardly been fit to play & Markovic was injured and hasn't featured much either.
Joe Allen has looked one of our best players but then gets injured playing for Wales and is out for a couple of months.

The fluent attractive football of last season at the moment seems a distant memory, Tottenham game aside.

Sturridge being fit again is obviously going to be a bonus, we must start getting clean sheets otherwise the problem isn't going away.

That all said only Chelsea so far have impressed, so there is plenty of time for things to change.
 
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johnny boy said:
That all said only Chelsea so far have impressed, so there is plenty of time for things to change.
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City absolutely battered Chelsea yesterday. Virtually everything about them was better. Even when down to 10 men. I am sticking with my forecast that City will win the league based on their stronger squad.
 
League Cup vs Middlesbro on Tuesday.

Personally I think we would be fools to put out a full strength team with Everton at the weekend and Basle away next Wednesday, two far more important competitions, when we are already struggling with injuries to key players.

------------------------ Jones ------------------
Manquillo --- Lovren --- Sakho --- Enrique
----------------------- Lucas------------------
-------------- Lallana ------ Rossiter --------
Suso --------------- Lambert --------- Markovic

Subs: Mignolet, Skrtel, Toure, Borini, Balotelli + 2 from Reserves/Academy : Brannagan, O’Hanlon, Ojo, Trickett-Smith, Dunn, Wilson, Kent and not sure if Yesil is fit year ? Academy experts pick two !
 
Liverpool duo Philippe Coutinho and Jordan Henderson will be assessed this week after Brendan Rodgers confirmed today that the pair have picked up groin and hip injuries respectively.

The former was not included in the matchday squad to take on West Ham United on Saturday due to a groin problem and is 'highly unlikely' to feature in the Capital One Cup against Middlesbrough.

Vice-captain Henderson, meanwhile, will have a hip strain monitored as the manager prepares his squad for the visit of the Championship outfit for a third round tie tomorrow evening.

"We just need to assess one or two," Rodgers explained to reporters gathered at Anfield for a pre-match press conference this afternoon. "Jordan Henderson picked up a knock so we need to assess where he's at. And Philippe Coutinho is highly unlikely for tomorrow as well."

Continuing his update on the options available for selection, the boss outlined how the current situation could provide an opportunity for a number of young players.

"We haven't got any guys returning," he said. "Glen Johnson is still out. Joe Allen and Emre Can aren't fit. Daniel Sturridge won't be fit. Young Jon Flanagan has obviously had his operation.

"So we've got a few injuries to cope with but it'll always give a chance to one or two of our younger players, who are doing very well at the Academy, to get a chance to be in the squad. That's my first look."
 
Give Touré a start at right back maybe? Gives Manquillo a rest ahead of Saturday. Agree that we shouldn't be starting many first teamed though, bar those who need minutes (Marković and Lallana) and the centre backs who need some confidence.
 
iBoss said:
Liverpool will struggle with the league cup game, Everton game and then the Basel game.

When is Sturridge back?
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I wouldn't be that bothered about going out of the cup early to be honest. Just as long as it doesn't drain confidence further.

He's back in training this week but dunno if he'll be back for Everton.
 
Rossiter will start tonight 100% 9BR said so) and as Ojo has been warming up with the 1st team pre-Anfield KOs then I reckon we'l see him get some minutes too. Wilson & Brannagan are other youngsters that might see some minutes tonight.
 
Dunno why Sterling is starting tonight. If he's so desperate to manage him tonight was the ideal opportunity to give him a rest ffs.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Dunno why Sterling is starting tonight. If he's so desperate to manage him tonight was the ideal opportunity to give him a rest ffs.
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Absolutely weird management by Brendan.

Plays a 34 year old for 3 games in 7 days but rests a 19 year old for fear of burnout then plays him in a small league cup tie which means he'd have played 3 games in 7 days anyway.

:lol:
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
3 and a half days is enough for Sterling to recover for Saturday.
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Why not take the chance to rest him ahead of 2 crucial games? If he gets injured, Rodgers has a lot of explaining to do.

Makes the Villa decision even more stupid.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Why not take the chance to rest him ahead of 2 crucial games? If he gets injured, Rodgers has a lot of explaining to do.

Makes the Villa decision even more stupid.
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Think he was rested against Villa because he played 4 games in about 11/12? days. The latter two which were under Hodgson who would have made Sterling follow quite a different recovery pattern. i.e doing sprints the day after a game - the reason Studge got injured.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
Think he was rested against Villa because he played 4 games in about 11/12? days. The latter two which were under Hodgson who would have made Sterling follow quite a different recovery pattern. i.e doing sprints the day after a game - the reason Studge got injured.
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The decision to start him looks even worse with hindsight now, no? (Not because of his poor end to the game, because he ended up playing 120 mins ahead of our 2 huge games, and possibly lost some confidence with the mistake).

I should be happy at qualifying but it's hard to be pleased after yet another dreadful performance. Said it before but I'm completely sick of Mignolet, I actually want Brad Jones to start against Everton, that's how bad he's become. He belongs in the circus.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
The decision to start him looks even worse with hindsight now, no? (Not because of his poor end to the game, because he ended up playing 120 mins ahead of our 2 huge games, and possibly lost some confidence with the mistake).

I should be happy at qualifying but it's hard to be pleased after yet another dreadful performance. Said it before but I'm completely sick of Mignolet, I actually want Brad Jones to start against Everton, that's how bad he's become. He belongs in the circus.
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Yeah it's not ideal him playing 120 mins but that's the situation we got ourselves in. Should have been good enough to win in 90. Can't say I'd have been too bothered if we went out though.

Mignolet needs upgrading but he's not the reason we've had such a poor start. Him and Gerrard have definitely become the scapegoats though.

Also, Markovic looks rubbish so far.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
Yeah it's not ideal him playing 120 mins but that's the situation we got ourselves in. Should have been good enough to win in 90. Can't say I'd have been too bothered if we went out though.

Mignolet needs upgrading but he's not the reason we've had such a poor start. Him and Gerrard have definitely become the scapegoats though.

Also, Markovic looks rubbish so far.
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Agree that Mignolet (or Gerrard) aren't the sole reasons why we're so poor defensively but they clearly aren't helping. It's no wonder our centre backs panic when they've got Mignolet shitting himself behind them, glued to his line except when he makes a rare dash forward to give a striker an open net to pass into.

I wouldn't have been overly concerned if we went out either, that's why I was frustrated that Sterling was playing. Glad we went through but it's not worth celebrating.

And agree on Marković but he's only finding his feet, best to judge him in a few months I think.
 
Reckon we could have one of the classic 'who is less shit' races for fourth between United, Spurs and Pool with points dropped everywhere. Pleasing seeing how poor Liverpool are this season though I expect them to do decent again when Sturridge returns.
 
Oh and Lallana was MoM by an absolute mile. He was superb on the ball and with movement like we had once Suso came on we'd have won that a lot earlier. Thought the two lads making their debuts today, Rossiter (17 yrs old) & Williams (18) were very tidy and did their jobs well. Suso should be in every match day squad too, class player.
 
Rafateria said:
Oh and Lallana was MoM by an absolute mile. He was superb on the ball and with movement like we had once Suso came on we'd have won that a lot earlier. Thought the two lads making their debuts today, Rossiter (17 yrs old) & Williams (18) were very tidy and did their jobs well. Suso should be in every match day squad too, class player.
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Enrique MOTM for me, and I say that as someone who really doesn't rate the guy :D

Would have been Sterling if he hadn't lost the plot at the end.
 
He wasn't Rafa, Lucas was outstanding in midfield without Gerrard. He gets my vote.
 
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