Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense

Lovren/Sakho/Skrtel. Can't say I'm too bothered as to which two of the three are picked - they're all similarly above average, yet nothing special defenders.

More than anything, I'd like to see consistency in selection which enables a long term partnership to form. Maybe then we will achieve some defensive stability.
 
BarneyLFC said:
It's not a difficult case at all. Gerrard should play as he's still our best midfielder in that position. How on Earth has it been to limited success? That is nonsense. He was one of our best performers last season and from the Villa debacle onwards, he was better than any midfielder excluding Toure. We don't need another defensive midfielder. No top quality midfielder will be happy rotating with Gerrard and we've already got two (and possibly very soon three) midfielders that can cover him (Lucas, Can and Rossiter). Lucas is more than capable to come in and play games when we want to rest Gerrard. If Gerrard was in the team for his defensive capabilities then he'd be lacking. He's not though, he's in there because he can pass as well as anyone except for Fabregas from a deep position and his passing is brilliant for cutting open tight defences. His set piece delivery is second to none too. He is adequate defensively, but on the ball he is still brilliant.
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You are definitely in the minority there mate. Anyone can see (and the stats are there - I'll just have to drag them up) that SG is not a DM. A lot of our issues are that he either drops deep and comes between the CBs but then moves forward and they don't narrow the gap between them (a CB issue too - but SG shouldn't be there) or he pushes up and leaves a gaping hole where he was. SG has never been known for his positional discipline, and this coming from one of his biggest fans, though I quite agree with you on his passing and dead-ball delivery.

We can't afford to neglect our defensive duties (our biggest issue at the moment) simply to add another attacking option, we would be far better off pushing him forward - and as if the Echo is mirroring my thoughts there is an article in it today discussing just that, with two options for him at a) RM and b) #10. Personally I think he would be fantastic at #10. Then there would be the DM issue, and who to play there, and although Can & Rossiter could be future solutions nobody can seriously suggest that they are ready to step up yet without having even once played there for the 1st team.

As for Lucas, well I am with the majority on the Liverpool fan sites I inhabit - he isn't good enough to start though is a decent squad filler (and the fact BR was willing to let him go to Napoli in the Summer but Lucas decided not to, tells us what BR's thinking on this is too, I think BR sees Can as his replacement). We need a dedicated DM for that slot sooner rather than later. I'm certain BR will leave Gerrard there for this season, but he is already finding it tough to last the full 90 mins if he's not rested. January, or more likely next Summer, I'm certain we'll see a DM transfer to fill that slot and SG will either have to move forward or to the bench and rotated in as required.
 
I think Sakho and Lovren are considerably better than Skrtel. Skrtel is a very reactionary defender though so if Rodgers wants to partner him with one of our proactive defenders then that makes a bit of sense. Skrtel also offers a bigger goal threat (at least he did last season).
 
peterstorey said:
I looked very closely at Sahko when he was at PSG and decided just wasn't a very good defender.
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In that case you were watching a 21/22 year old CB. One that was nevertheless made captain of PSG and has become a regular in the French national team. 21/22 is extremely young for a CB, or any player really, but especially a CB, and so it's no surprise that consistency is something that's absent from his game from time to time, all youngsters lack that.

It's also far too easy to blame the CBs for the majority of goals that we concede. The same could be said for every team from Real Madrid to Southport. I watched Bayern vs. City the other night and every CB made errors, Benatia, Kompany (3 or 4 times), Demichelis (1-2) but because they got away with them there is not so much emphasis or hullabaloo - except maybe on their equivalent fan forums.

To expect a CB to be perfect for 95 mins is asking far too much. If they make 1-2 errors per match I would guess that would be closer to average for a top CB, and if their luck holds they will get away with most, or if they are capable of recovering their error (as often seems to be the case with e.g. Sakho) or if the GK saves the day. However every now and again one of those errors will inevitably lead to a goal of course.

It is more important that the coaching re. positional sense and how to defend different situations, is drilled into them .. and the rest of the team ... I'm far from certain this is not a major contributing factor to our above average (for a Top 4 team) goals conceded column.

I think the consistency will come - but BR has to play Sakho and Lovren together. There is also a difference between their styles, Sakho is more like Skrtel whereas Lovren often pushes upfield fast, if his partner isn't aware then this can lead to a lot of space for the opposition to exploit, space that the DM should be covering in those instances but again only if he were used to Lovren's forward pushes. I'm sure this will improve greatly no matter the pairing as the season progresses.
 
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Rafateria said:
You are definitely in the minority there mate. Anyone can see (and the stats are there - I'll just have to drag them up) that SG is not a DM. A lot of our issues are that he either drops deep and comes between the CBs but then moves forward and they don't narrow the gap between them (a CB issue too - but SG shouldn't be there) or he pushes up and leaves a gaping hole where he was. SG has never been known for his positional discipline, and this coming from one of his biggest fans, though I quite agree with you on his passing and dead-ball delivery.

We can't afford to neglect our defensive duties (our biggest issue at the moment) simply to add another attacking option, we would be far better off pushing him forward - and as if the Echo is mirroring my thoughts there is an article in it today discussing just that, with two options for him at a) RM and b) #10. Personally I think he would be fantastic at #10. Then there would be the DM issue, and who to play there, and although Can & Rossiter could be future solutions nobody can seriously suggest that they are ready to step up yet without having even once played there for the 1st team.

As for Lucas, well I am with the majority on the Liverpool fan sites I inhabit - he isn't good enough to start though is a decent squad filler (and the fact BR was willing to let him go to Napoli in the Summer but Lucas decided not to, tells us what BR's thinking on this is too, I think BR sees Can as his replacement). We need a dedicated DM for that slot sooner rather than later. I'm certain BR will leave Gerrard there for this season, but he is already finding it tough to last the full 90 mins if he's not rested. January, or more likely next Summer, I'm certain we'll see a DM transfer to fill that slot and SG will either have to move forward or to the bench and rotated in as required.
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I'm not bothered whether I'm in the minority or majority (I don't actually think I am in the minority). What stats are these? His role in the team is not to be a defensive midfielder. He plays as the deepest, but he's not in the team to do what Mascherano or Javi Martinez would do for instance. I think Rodgers has clearly told him to drop between the centre backs.

We finished second neglecting our defensive issues. We've added three better defenders than what we already had to our squad which will instantly make a difference (at both ends of the pitch). If Rodgers is going to go with a diamond (he will have to as Sturridge and Balotelli are too good to leave out) then Gerrard won't play at the tip of the diamond as Sterling is better than him there. He's also not got enough energy to be in one of the positions ahead of the deepest midfielder. We spent £10m on Can, he should be re to play games. Rossiter in the next couple of years should also be starting to make the step up.

Wasn't it you that said you hoped Lucas didn't play for us again? Gerrard has been fine thus far and hasn't looked leggy at all. Lucas is good enough cover for him. I don't think we'll see a pure defensive midfielder sign at all.
 
peterstorey said:
I think Shagger is better than Scrotum, Sackof or Loveruns.
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He had his own weaknesses, but yeah he was. Shame he was made of glass.

Oh what I'd give for a Terry/Kompany at Anfield...

BarneyLFC said:
I think Sakho and Lovren are considerably better than Skrtel. Skrtel is a very reactionary defender though so if Rodgers wants to partner him with one of our proactive defenders then that makes a bit of sense. Skrtel also offers a bigger goal threat (at least he did last season).
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Lovren has been all over the shop since he's signed. Early days but he doesn't look like the upgrade we thought he'd be.

Sakho is a monster for France according to every man and his uncle but I'm yet to see this for Liverpool.
 
peterstorey said:
I think Shagger is better than Scrotum, Sackof or Loveruns.
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The Agger of 5 years ago perhaps, but the Agger of today seems to disagree with you .. since he said himself when he left the club that his injuries have taken a heavy toll (or words to that effect).
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
He had his own weaknesses, but yeah he was. Shame he was made of glass.

Oh what I'd give for a Terry/Kompany at Anfield...



Lovren has been all over the shop since he's signed. Early days but he doesn't look like the upgrade we thought he'd be.

Sakho is a monster for France according to every man and his uncle but I'm yet to see this for Liverpool.
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Sakho I like a lot, saw him play really well for you a couple of times last year (can't remember which games though...) - great passing, touch and tackling, everything he does somehow looks awkward mind.
 
Parry Gallister said:
Sakho I like a lot, saw him play really well for you a couple of times last year (can't remember which games though...) - great passing, touch and tackling, everything he does somehow looks awkward mind.
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Yeah, he looks ridiculously unnatural, but he's a good defender.
 
BarneyLFC said:
I'm not bothered whether I'm in the minority or majority (I don't actually think I am in the minority). What stats are these? His role in the team is not to be a defensive midfielder. He plays as the deepest, but he's not in the team to do what Mascherano or Javi Martinez would do for instance. I think Rodgers has clearly told him to drop between the centre backs.

We finished second neglecting our defensive issues. We've added three better defenders than what we already had to our squad which will instantly make a difference (at both ends of the pitch). If Rodgers is going to go with a diamond (he will have to as Sturridge and Balotelli are too good to leave out) then Gerrard won't play at the tip of the diamond as Sterling is better than him there. He's also not got enough energy to be in one of the positions ahead of the deepest midfielder. We spent £10m on Can, he should be re to play games. Rossiter in the next couple of years should also be starting to make the step up.

Wasn't it you that said you hoped Lucas didn't play for us again? Gerrard has been fine thus far and hasn't looked leggy at all. Lucas is good enough cover for him. I don't think we'll see a pure defensive midfielder sign at all.
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Yes, SG has looked leggy, both against Villa and particularly against Lego. Stats are the goals we've conceded where SG has not tracked his runner from MF.

We finished 2nd with Suarez. Saying 'we finished second neglecting our defensive issues' is history and not this season's team. We know we are not going to score as many this season and so to partly cover that we need a less porous defence.

Yep, I don't like Lucas - nothing against the lad as he is as wholesome as whole wheat and a fine ambassador for the club. However he is simply not good enough. As BR obviously agrees and demonstrated.

We paid £20m for Markovic, why isn't he starting every match ? Why is how much we paid even a barometer of their readiness ? Maybe we paid for their potential, radical idea I know. I really like what I've seen of Can .. but he needs gently easing into the team, not just throwing him in at the deep end and hoping he can swim or else the team may sink with him.

These two formations from (my mistake Sky not the Echo) today :

liverpool-west-ham-potential_3205591.jpg


liverpool-west-ham-potential_3205591.jpg
 
Liverpool have wasted a feck tonne of money on average defenders.
 
Parry Gallister said:
Sakho I like a lot, saw him play really well for you a couple of times last year (can't remember which games though...) - great passing, touch and tackling, everything he does somehow looks awkward mind.
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And this tends to unfairly, put a lot of people off him. Personally I think he's going to be a monster for us.
 
Interestingly, Benitez was one who believed Gerrard should gradually be moved further up the pitch as his career progresses. But he has as much of a place as Ricky Lambert in our current attacking set up.

Rafateria said:
It's also far too easy to blame the CBs for the majority of goals that we concede. The same could be said for every team from Real Madrid to Southport. I watched Bayern vs. City the other night and every CB made errors, Benatia, Kompany (3 or 4 times), Demichelis (1-2) but because they got away with them there is not so much emphasis or hullabaloo - except maybe on their equivalent fan forums.

To expect a CB to be perfect for 95 mins is asking far too much. If they make 1-2 errors per match I would guess that would be closer to average for a top CB, and if their luck holds they will get away with most, or if they are capable of recovering their error (as often seems to be the case with e.g. Sakho) or if the GK saves the day. However every now and again one of those errors will inevitably lead to a goal of course.
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I'd agree our style calls for a very particular (courageous, intelligent/knows how to manage space, technically capable) type of defender. It's a difficult set up to succeed within.
 
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Rafateria said:
Yes, SG has looked leggy, both against Villa and particularly against Lego. Stats are the goals we've conceded where SG has not tracked his runner from MF.

We finished 2nd with Suarez. Saying 'we finished second neglecting our defensive issues' is history and not this season's team. We know we are not going to score as many this season and so to partly cover that we need a less porous defence.

Yep, I don't like Lucas - nothing against the lad as he is as wholesome as whole wheat and a fine ambassador for the club. However he is simply not good enough. As BR obviously agrees and demonstrated.

We paid £20m for Markovic, why isn't he starting every match ? Why is how much we paid even a barometer of their readiness ? Maybe we paid for their potential, radical idea I know. I really like what I've seen of Can .. but he needs gently easing into the team, not just throwing him in at the deep end and hoping he can swim or else the team may sink with him.

These two formations from (my mistake Sky not the Echo) today :

liverpool-west-ham-potential_3205591.jpg


liverpool-west-ham-potential_3205591.jpg
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Gerrard wasn't leggy at all against Villa or Ludogorets. Can you post these stats please?

We won't concede as many goals purely on the back of having three (four if Valdes signs) individuals in the defence.

I read Brendan was happy to keep him or happy to sell him if a £10m offer came in. It doesn't speak volumes, but if he was desperate to be rid he would have gone. He's a solid enough squad player. Brendan isn't right all the time (see Sturridge and Henderson).

That was not my argument. You said we can't expect Can to step in yet. Of course we can. He played over 20 games last season for a Bundesliga side that finished 4th. He can definitely fill in as cover for us.

The midfields in both of those graphics look horrific. There is no way I'd be limiting Sterling and Henderson. You'd still have the same problems playing Henderson there too.
 
BarneyLFC said:
Gerrard wasn't leggy at all against Villa or Ludogorets. Can you post these stats please?

We won't concede as many goals purely on the back of having three (four if Valdes signs) individuals in the defence.

I read Brendan was happy to keep him or happy to sell him if a £10m offer came in. It doesn't speak volumes, but if he was desperate to be rid he would have gone. He's a solid enough squad player. Brendan isn't right all the time (see Sturridge and Henderson).

That was not my argument. You said we can't expect Can to step in yet. Of course we can. He played over 20 games last season for a Bundesliga side that finished 4th. He can definitely fill in as cover for us.

The midfields in both of those graphics look horrific. There is no way I'd be limiting Sterling and Henderson. You'd still have the same problems playing Henderson there too.
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05.00 here, I'm off to bed ! I'll find those Gerrard positional errors/stats for you tomorrow.

Can wasn't playing DM. We can't expect him, a youngster, to drop straight into a new country / language / team / position and be all that we expect from the off. He needs time and it would be unfair to expect otherwise.
 
Fifth place, which would be a fantastic outcome given the talent that Rodgers has on his hands.
 
No Studge today either? West Ham are better than Ludogorets and how many dodgy pens can you get per week anyway?
 
vibe said:
No Studge today either? West Ham are better than Ludogorets and how many dodgy pens can you get per week anyway?
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If you're Liverpool? A lot. Gerrard's knocking in about 15 a season these days. Helps mask his overall performances as well.
 
BarneyLFC said:
According to the bib theory the line up will be: Mignolet, Manquillo, Skrtel, Lovren, Moreno, Gerrard, Lucas, Henderson, Sterling, Borini, Balotelli

On one hand the diamond would be back, but on the other hand Lucas and Gerrard would be starting together. If we could get Lallana in there instead of Lucas and Sakho in instead of Skrtel that would be perfect.
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The bib theory lineup there has been confirmed now. Dislike Lucas and Gerrard together too, otherwise happy enough.
 
I had a debate with a fellow United fan, an Arsenal fan and a Liverpool fan this week. Me and the Arsenal fan both believe Liverpool will no doubt drop out of the top 4 this season, while the Liverpool fan and the other United fan believed they'll make it.

Today epitomizes my feelings towards this Liverpool side. Suarez is such a massive loss to them, and replacing him with Balotelli is just a mistake. They aren't the same type of player. Sure, Sterling has improved a lot and he could easily be the one carrying Liverpool at times, but they have no used that Suarez money wisely.

They'll struggle a whole lot more against the mid-table clubs this season, the teams who Suarez absolutely shat on.
 
Our centre backs are showing exactly why I couldn't care less which of the two start. Every single one of them are complete piss.
 
Bob Loblaw said:
Our centre backs are showing exactly why I couldn't care less which of the two start. Every single one of them are complete piss.
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The worry will also be the side of your game which you are suppose to be good it, i.e. attacking, looks limp.

The pacy passing, pressing and countering all look gone.
 
Everything that was good about last year's side has completely gone. We're even worse defensively and going forward we have turned to complete shite. Can't really recall one good bit of attacking play in our last three games.

Moyesian stuff.
 
An absolutely awful display. Don't know why we start with Lucas and Gerrard. Our defence was a shambles and I include Moreno in that. Stop hitting crosses into the box lad. It's clearly not working. Lallana was good when he came on and Balotelli was good too, but the rest of the team was absolutely shite.

Rodgers substitutions brought us back into the game. Not sure why he didn't throw on Lambert and Borini rather than going like for like though. We were down 2-1 with two minutes left. We had nothing to lose.
 
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