The scout department should be scrapped and replaced if they're not up to the job. Hopefully it's just a case of an entirely new direction in who we'll need to scout.
Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United
- Thread starter darioterios
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I still think he might be bought to play in between CB and De Jong, maybe we are looking at signing a CB and him
Looks a lot like this is who we're moving onto after de Jong and Malacia.
Don't feel strongly about it in either direction, I do really like the passing compilations that I've seen though.
Don't feel strongly about it in either direction, I do really like the passing compilations that I've seen though.
If we do end up with him, we are likely playing three at the back.
I would fancy this but we still have not sold anyone, and next one in should be Antony. Only then will he look at CB or DM
This isn't the only thread where people are complaining about lack of height or physicality. Even in the Timber, Malacia and Antony thread you see lots of people complaining about their lack of height, while in the De Jong thread lots of people are claiming that he is not strong enough to play in PL. Even back then in the Bruno threads people were claiming that he is not buffed enough for PL. And when they talk about our young players they always talk about how the player needs to bulk up more or grow taller. It's weird.
I’ve have seen neither play but I’d prefer Timber over him on the senseless basis that having an Argentinian in the team will be another disaster.
Yup it does look likely that we will try to wrap up Eriksen and Martinez once the De Jong and Malacia deal completes. Reckon Antony might take some bit of negotiation with Ajax.
The Woodward double-bid for Baines and Fellaini (when we were Champions, FFS) is the butt of jokes
But is it worth doing a similar thing here with Ajax for Martinez and Antony? Assuming the budget will stretch that far.
But is it worth doing a similar thing here with Ajax for Martinez and Antony? Assuming the budget will stretch that far.
Perhaps but I do have a sneaking suspicion that we might try to have a go at de ligt if he becomes available.
Whatever happens I'm gonna be content as I like all of our center back candidates .
Am I the only one that sees him more as a DM signing than a CB ?
I feel like if we do sign him to play in defence that means we're going back 3.
I feel like if we do sign him to play in defence that means we're going back 3.
I’ve read that a bit but he hasn’t played there in 3 years.
Think this is a very good post and was how I was thinking with regards Arsenal.
There's no doubt his height is a concern, but it's not just about height. I take our own Ben White for example, not the tallest for a defender, and he did seem to get bullied a few times, I'm thinking about against the likes of Toney, Callum Wilson specifically.
But, I don't think he is intelligent enough at times to compensate for this. He also could be more aggressive, anticipate better etc. Defenders can always play someone bigger than them, top defenders are intelligent enough to know how to handle that, compete more for 2nd balls etc.
To be fair to White, his team mates didn't help him in those games as we were passive all over the pitch, but Martinez seems to have that aggressiveness over White. Ironically, I believe our conceding from set pieces was very good last season, so it shows it can be worked on tactically and it's not all about height.
Like you say though, there's another way to play against these teams, and that's more the Man City way, of raising the technical floor of the team, to keep the ball much better and squeeze them further up the pitch away from your goal. That's why I think we are interested, and why Ten Hag will be interested as well. Our worst performances against Brentford, Palace, Newcastle, Everton, Spurs etc, was where teams were aggressive and pushed right on us, but we brought that on by being unable to play our way out and play under pressure.
Our technical level of our team drops massively when our first choice players are out, so watching the likes of Tavares, Holding etc try and play out was scary. I think thats the thing Arteta is trying to raise most this summer, and I think ETH will be doing likewise at Utd.
I do agree with you, however if you look at the Liverpool and City defenders, they are technically skilled AND have the presence and height to deal with the Stoke City type tactics. I just don't see Martinez playing in a 2 at the back at a team that will end up winning the epl. DM maybe, a CB in a back 3 maybe, not in a 2 at the back.
We'll get him too eventually.
So you’re saying wood gets you up?
Exactly. What better way to defend than not really having to defend much by controlling the football? Malacia will work in unison with this, I’d feel. Sure, average height goes down (though you’d think it’s Tinder with how so many fans are going off about it) but the ability to have a few hyper aggressive defenders and camp up the pitch a little higher would be a massive change to how we want to play.
Hijack FC
Fernandinho played CB in a side that absolutely pissed the league
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For a team with above average height, we do concede a lot from corners and score little from them.
Is there any Ajax fan here, who could tell us more about Lisandro? What are his strengths? Seems he's way too short for a CB in Premier League.
We moved away from that after LvG's first transfer window. The scouting team has led our recruitment for years.
quite physical, good on the ball, great long pass, decent pace, aggressive and a surprisingly good in the air. Better than Timber, for now.
Don't get me wrong, I can understand reservations, I think there needs to be balance a bit, again if we had signed him I'd be concerned if it was a White Martinez partnership for instance in certain games, & I'm certainly not advocating for just a team full of midgets, but for me intelligent aggression is probably more important in this day and age.
I said in my previous post, I found him interesting as a left back, but actually rather than overlapping coming in centrally and using his aggression and passing ability in there. Even the likes of TAA has had his game modified so he comes inside more and Henderson will overlap and create overloads.
I'll add this video, sorry its from an Arsenal fan account but he discusses the player with a journalist I think that follows Argentinan football, and he has no worries at all about his height. Said in his few appearances for Argentina he's already cemented himself as almost as being important for Argentina now as Romero.
I like his versatility, he can play DM, LCB and LB if required.
Would be lovely if we can wrap this up for £40 Million all in.
Would be lovely if we can wrap this up for £40 Million all in.
There's no way Arteta was signing him to be a CB.
Both Arsenal and United are most likely interested in him as a midfielder.
Both Arsenal and United are most likely interested in him as a midfielder.
Of course we would prefer him be taller but that part of football is really becoming less and less necessary. More teams keeping the ball on the floor. The rest of his game will need to be very good though.
Haven't really followed this in the past couple days, is Arsenal still leading the race or are we likely to escalate our interest?
They wanted him as left back
Great player. Erik Ten Hag wants to bring his Ajax style of football (the reason we got him as a manager) to play a high-line where the centre-backs cover the left and right back when they bomb forward. Maguire is incapable of playing that way because he's so slow and positioning poor.
Martinez will start mark my words. So will Malacia. Ten Hag is not stockpiling backups like some people weirdly think.. He's getting priority signings that will start because they can play the system and style of football he wants. Which is a high-line and high-press. Watch Manchester City of Ajax last season.. that's a similar distinct style of football Erik Ten Hag wants Manchester United to play.
Martinez will start mark my words. So will Malacia. Ten Hag is not stockpiling backups like some people weirdly think.. He's getting priority signings that will start because they can play the system and style of football he wants. Which is a high-line and high-press. Watch Manchester City of Ajax last season.. that's a similar distinct style of football Erik Ten Hag wants Manchester United to play.
I inherently do not trust Argentinian centre-backs.... and him being short concerns me.
So I'm both a racist and a height supremacist apparently.
So I'm both a racist and a height supremacist apparently.
The thing about height is that in Football I don't know if it's that important outside of maybe goalkeeping and even then a relatively short goalkeeper like Ter Stegen is arguably the best around. Where I have doubts is that people talk about height in relation to aerial duels when there are other parameters that are as important if not more when it comes to how high a player will reach the ball, typically timing, positioning, balance and explosivity.
Agree. He seems pretty aggressive which I think negates a lot of the downside from being a little short.
I wouldn't be surprised if we're targeting Martinez to play alongside Frenkie as 2 deep lying midfielders. The other option would be if Ten Hag considers 3 at the back as our main approach for the season.
I read that as 'shit' and it really made me laugh.
I'd at least feel more at ease then as he'd fit right in!!Or one of the three potential starters in a back four. At the minute we have three CBs that are playable and one of them is getting injured every other games.
That's a good video has some good insight, cheers. His passing stats are incredible.
I see everyone complains about the height and compares to Timber but when you check the stats of two players, it seems it is in favor of Martinez.
Also in the video shared in one of the above posts, an Argentinian expert highly rates him in the air.
Let's take a closer look at how the defenders compare in key areas as Erik ten Hag grows more desperate in his attempts to sign a new centre-back ahead of the 2022/23 season.
Timber vs Martinez per 90 minutes, Ajax 2021/22
Tackles: 2.4 — 2
Interceptions: 1.7 — 1.9
Fouls: 0.8 — 0.9
Clearances: 1.4 — 2.8
Aerials duels won: 1.5 — 3.3
Long balls completed: 1.7 — 5.4
Also in the video shared in one of the above posts, an Argentinian expert highly rates him in the air.
Let's take a closer look at how the defenders compare in key areas as Erik ten Hag grows more desperate in his attempts to sign a new centre-back ahead of the 2022/23 season.
Timber vs Martinez per 90 minutes, Ajax 2021/22
Tackles: 2.4 — 2
Interceptions: 1.7 — 1.9
Fouls: 0.8 — 0.9
Clearances: 1.4 — 2.8
Aerials duels won: 1.5 — 3.3
Long balls completed: 1.7 — 5.4
Why do you think that? Is he a good midfielder? I’ve never really seen him play in midfield.
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