[Pronewbie]

Seems like our CB pairing for the start of the season is either Maguire + Lindelof or Martinez + Varane. Here's hoping it's the latter.

 

[Borys]

True, I imagine he'll be away one scott and Fred injury away from starting there.

Injury is one, but also in the past McTominay used to play every second game. Back then we used to rotate McFred with Matic-Pogba, and it seemed like Scott needed more time to recover after a game.
Van de Beek, Zidane or de Jong (if...) can take Fred place if he needs to recover, but in general he used to play almost every game for us.
But if McTom is out, our midfield is lacking that body.
This is why I've been banging all summer that we need Matic replacement. There is no scenario a DM isn't needed.
Martinez wasn't brought to be that DM, but since there is no talk about us getting another midfielder than de Jong, I expect Lisandro to end up in both CB and DM roles quite soon.

 

[sherrinford]

Injury is one, but also in the past McTominay used to play every second game. Back then we used to rotate McFred with Matic-Pogba, and it seemed like Scott needed more time to recover after a game.
Van de Beek, Zidane or de Jong (if...) can take Fred place if he needs to recover, but in general he used to play almost every game for us.
But if McTom is out, our midfield is lacking that body.
This is why I've been banging all summer that we need Matic replacement. There is no scenario a DM isn't needed.
Martinez wasn't brought to be that DM, but since there is no talk about us getting another midfielder than de Jong, I expect Lisandro to end up in both CB and DM roles quite soon.

McTominay isn't playing the holding role, Fred is.

 

[sherrinford]

Exactly why I’m not a fan of either of them. Frenkie in that role and he turns and punishes their press.

Eriksen is generally a very progressive player.

 

[Cassidy]

Exactly why I’m not a fan of either of them. Frenkie in that role and he turns and punishes their press.

Even Fred would to be honest

 

[Borys]

McTominay isn't playing the holding role, Fred is.

Actually nobody is playing the holding role, but I don't see how it changes anything from my post?
Fred might be the deepest player on paper/on heatmaps, but "holding" he is not.

 

[Idxomer]

Actually nobody is playing the holding role, but I don't see how it changes anything from my post?
Fred might be the deepest player on paper/on heatmaps, but "holding" he is not.

Ten Hag described him as the connector which is the role he intends for De Jong.

 

[sullydnl]

Injury is one, but also in the past McTominay used to play every second game. Back then we used to rotate McFred with Matic-Pogba, and it seemed like Scott needed more time to recover after a game.
Van de Beek, Zidane or de Jong (if...) can take Fred place if he needs to recover, but in general he used to play almost every game for us.
But if McTom is out, our midfield is lacking that body.
This is why I've been banging all summer that we need Matic replacement. There is no scenario a DM isn't needed.
Martinez wasn't brought to be that DM, but since there is no talk about us getting another midfielder than de Jong, I expect Lisandro to end up in both CB and DM roles quite soon.

ETH's intention appears to be to play Fred or FDJ in the deepest midfield role as the connector between defence and attack with two more advanced midfielders ahead of them.

So you say there's no scenario where a DM isn't needed but ETH's midfield set-up quite literally doesn't have room for the type of DM I think you mean.

 

[kouroux]

ETH's intention appears to be to play Fred or FDJ in the deepest midfield role as the connector between defence and attack with two more advanced midfielders ahead of them.

So you say there's no scenario where a DM isn't needed but ETH's midfield set-up quite literally doesn't have room for the type of DM I think you mean.

Matic is that sort of player you just described tbh

 

[Kag]

ETH's intention appears to be to play Fred or FDJ in the deepest midfield role as the connector between defence and attack with two more advanced midfielders ahead of them.

So you say there's no scenario where a DM isn't needed but ETH's midfield set-up quite literally doesn't have room for the type of DM I think you mean.

I think I argued this with the @Borys yesterday. Ten Hag clearly doesn’t want to bring in the profile of midfielder some supporters think we need. They might disagree, and that’s fine, but they are going to have to accept that this is what’s happening.

 

[Borys]

ETH's intention appears to be to play Fred or FDJ in the deepest midfield role as the connector between defence and attack with two more advanced midfielders ahead of them.

So you say there's no scenario where a DM isn't needed but ETH's midfield set-up quite literally doesn't have room for the type of DM I think you mean.

Connector when in possession, Defensive Midfielder out of possession (sounds like a younger Matic?). How else are we going to accommodate two AMs on the pitch at the same time?

I think I argued this with the @Borys yesterday. Ten Hag clearly doesn’t want to bring in the profile of midfielder some supporters think we need. They might disagree, and that’s fine, but they are going to have to accept that this is what’s happening.

I believe it's a huge risk if we are going to play with two AMs in front of him (and by him I mean De Jong, because I've never heard of any other players being mentioned in that position).

I am afraid this setup will be a complete train wreck in EPL, as we've learned already only industrial midfield (McFred) can be functional in current United side, and now we're going to make it the exact opposite and make it super lightweight. I can't recall any team which plays holding + two no10s, do you? I believe we will be good on the ball, but I also keep thinking what happens when we don't have the ball?
Anyway, ETH might have an idea to make it work so I'm very curious how this goes. Expectations are low anyway so that's the right time for experiments.

 

[gottho]

Matic is that sort of player you just described tbh

Or modric / Kroos

 

[sherrinford]

Actually nobody is playing the holding role, but I don't see how it changes anything from my post?
Fred might be the deepest player on paper/on heatmaps, but "holding" he is not.

Deepest/ holding - you know what I meant so no need for pedantry.

I find your post contradictory. Fred has been playing as the deepest midfielder, that is the position we lost Matic for and the position we are looking to get de Jong for. I agree we need that player. McTominay has been playing as the second function midfielder and it's his best position. That's also Fred's best position so he can play there, as can Van de Beek, Eriksen and Mejbri. You mentioned Zidane - is that not his position too? And Mejbri? I don't see how we need a body to cover for McTominay being out?

 

[Borys]

Deepest/ holding - you know what I meant so no need for pedantry.

I find your post contradictory. Fred has been playing as the deepest midfielder, that is the position we lost Matic for and the position we are looking to get de Jong for. I agree we need that player. McTominay has been playing as the second function midfielder and it's his best position. That's also Fred's best position so he can play there, as can Van de Beek, Eriksen and Mejbri. You mentioned Zidane - is that not his position too? And Mejbri? I don't see how we need a body to cover for McTominay being out?

I see your point, I think we agree mostly. I ideal world we get a let's call it a holding midfieler (de Jong) and pair him with a supporting midfielder (Fred >> van de Beek/McTominay). Option B would be in that case McTominay-Fred midfield duo, as average as it is, that's the only proven and functional midfield that would probably get us into top 4 (if we could play them week-in/week-out, which we can't). Contrary to popular belief, it's not McFred that failed us badly last season, although it's far from what is required.
I would love to see de Jong-Fred behind Eriksen, that would be a really really good midfield for most games, with McFred-McTominay behind Bruno as a backup. To be honest I don't think we can expect anything more at this point for next season midfield options.
I just strongly oppose the idea of playing de Jong behind Eriksen and Bruno, what seems to be the main idea on the forum.
That is obviously a big IF fdj joins, and as I don't see much happening there, as things stand Martinez in DM is still on the cards.

 

[Trex]

Connector when in possession, Defensive Midfielder out of possession (sounds like a younger Matic?). How else are we going to accommodate two AMs on the pitch at the same time?


I believe it's a huge risk if we are going to play with two AMs in front of him (and by him I mean De Jong, because I've never heard of any other players being mentioned in that position).

I am afraid this setup will be a complete train wreck in EPL, as we've learned already only industrial midfield (McFred) can be functional in current United side, and now we're going to make it the exact opposite and make it super lightweight. I can't recall any team which plays holding + two no10s, do you? I believe we will be good on the ball, but I also keep thinking what happens when we don't have the ball?
Anyway, ETH might have an idea to make it work so I'm very curious how this goes. Expectations are low anyway so that's the right time for experiments.

Man city? If you've been watching the way we set up in Preseason, its actually a lot easier for the holding midfielder than it was for both Mcfred previously because of the Press and the use of the fullback as inverted fullbacks and the positioning of the center backs being high. The shape is quite compact so you're not defending a large amount of territory, it more about positioning (which is well coached within the structure).

 

[Borys]

Man city? If you've been watching the way we set up in Preseason, its actually a lot easier for the holding midfielder than it was for both Mcfred previously because of the Press and the use of the fullback as inverted fullbacks and the positioning of the center backs being high. The shape is quite compact so you're not defending a large amount of territory, it more about positioning (which is well coached within the structure).

Yes ManCity, with Rodri + Silva&de Bruyne or Rodri + Gundogan (CM). MC can do it because a) their AMs are extremely good at keeping possession (Bruno is the exact opposite) and b) their forwards contribute far far more defensively than ours.

This can be done, but not with Bruno and Ronaldo/Martial/Rashford/Sancho.

 

[Trex]

Yes ManCity, with Rodri + Silva&de Bruyne or Rodri + Gundogan (CM). MC can do it because a) their AMs are extremely good at keeping possession (Bruno is the exact opposite) and b) their forwards contribute far far more defensively than ours.

This can be done, but not with Bruno and Ronaldo/Martial/Rashford/Sancho.

Bruno is as good at keeping possession as De bruyne is, and is more hard working than De bruyne, Eriksen also cover a lot of ground as well. The issue about keeping possession is more on the structure and tactics something we are seeing us do in our current fixtures...its pre season but the ATM game for example had more tempo than that community shield.

 

[Borys]

Bruno is as good at keeping possession as De bruyne is, and is more hard working than De bruyne, Eriksen also cover a lot of ground as well. The issue about keeping possession is more on the structure and tactics something we are seeing us do in our current fixtures...its pre season but the ATM game for example had more tempo than that community shield.

I strongly disagree about the bolded part, and I don't take anything from pre-season which we played mostly the same setup as last season, but sure let's give it time.

 

[Trex]

Thee majority of possession lies with the back five and not the front five @Borys

 

[Trex]

I strongly disagree about the bolded part, and I don't take anything from pre-season which we played mostly the same setup as last season, but sure let's give it time.

Its not pre season even in our non pressing/ non possession set up under Ole go look it up.

 

[golden_blunder]

Christ is this still going on? He’s been bought as a CB. End off.

 

[sherrinford]

I see your point, I think we agree mostly. I ideal world we get a let's call it a holding midfieler (de Jong) and pair him with a supporting midfielder (Fred >> van de Beek/McTominay). Option B would be in that case McTominay-Fred midfield duo, as average as it is, that's the only proven and functional midfield that would probably get us into top 4 (if we could play them week-in/week-out, which we can't). Contrary to popular belief, it's not McFred that failed us badly last season, although it's far from what is required.
I would love to see de Jong-Fred behind Eriksen, that would be a really really good midfield for most games, with McFred-McTominay behind Bruno as a backup. To be honest I don't think we can expect anything more at this point for next season midfield options.
I just strongly oppose the idea of playing de Jong behind Eriksen and Bruno, what seems to be the main idea on the forum.
That is obviously a big IF fdj joins, and as I don't see much happening there, as things stand Martinez in DM is still on the cards.

I think Option B would involve Fred as the deepest midfielder, as has been the case in pre-season. McTominay is probably a more likely partner in that scenario than Van de Beek or one of the younger players, again based on what we've seen so far, but not necessarily more likely than Eriksen.

I think both Fred and McTominay naturally complement de Jong's game and you can't say the same for Eriksen given that the strengths of both are what they provide on the ball. They do both work hard and naturally fit different positions though so I don't think they are particularly ill-suited to being deployed together either - it's just they aren't an obvious or stylistically ideal pairing. I think Fred and McTominay have been unfairly criticised in a way over the past few years as they have generally had far too much to do covering defensively for those in front of them. I like to think that Ten Hag will be able to transform us in that regard and it can make a midfield consisting of two playmakers much more viable.

I see no reason why Martinez would be played in midfield. I don't think it's on the cards at all.

 

[flappyjay]

On a scale of 1 to 10 how well does he play in midfield.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

On a scale of 1 to 10 how well does he play in midfield.

Paul Scholes mixed with Gabriel Heinze

 

[Chief123]

Excited to see him if true!

 

[Jacob]

The leaks are still there

 

[kouroux]

It pains me to see Maguire possibly still starting

 

[Adam-Utd]

The leaks are still there

Or just assuming our new signing will be playing alongside the captain? doesn't take a rocket scientist.

 

[TwoSheds]

Paul Scholes mixed with Gabriel Heinze

Violent and mildly talented?

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

It pains me to see Maguire possibly still starting

It pains me that he legitimately deserves to start ahead of Varane. We were supposed to be signing a WC and multiple CL winning Rolls Royce of a CB. Instead we ended up with an injury prone Titus Bramble tribute act.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

It pains me that he legitimately deserves to start ahead of Varane. We were supposed to be signing a WC and multiple CL winning Rolls Royce of a CB. Instead we ended up with an injury prone Titus Bramble tribute act.

I was very excited about Varane’s transfer.. I really hope he turns it around this season! I’m not writing him off yet!

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I was very excited about Varane’s transfer.. I really hope he turns it around this season! I’m not writing him off yet!

Unfortunately he can't stay fit long enough to build any kind of form. Maguire and Martinez will be the starting two for most games this season.

 

[kouroux]

It pains me that he legitimately deserves to start ahead of Varane. We were supposed to be signing a WC and multiple CL winning Rolls Royce of a CB. Instead we ended up with an injury prone Titus Bramble tribute act.

That's actually a good point even if I disagree with it. Maguire doesn't deserve to start any more than Varane IMHO but him being captain gives him some room. Varane has been a dud though that's without a doubt

 

[Irwin99]

I'm excited to see him start with Maguire if the leak is true. I got tired of Lindelof's ultra passive style of defending towards the end of last season but I think I just want to see a different combination than Maguire and Lindelof. As i've said before , we have four first choice centre backs for their respective countries. There must be a good combo in there somewhere.

 

[VP89]

I'm excited to see him start with Maguire if the leak is true. I got tired of Lindelof's ultra passive style of defending towards the end of last season but I think I just want to see a different combination than Maguire and Lindelof. As i've said before , we have four first choice centre backs for their respective countries. There must be a good combo in there somewhere.

Leak?

 

[AlexUTD]

Excited to see him if true!

Hope so since he is in my fantasy team (Martinez)

 

[Irwin99]

Leak?

Sorry, rumour is more accurate.

 

[I Am Zlatan]

Unfortunately he can't stay fit long enough to build any kind of form. Maguire and Martinez will be the starting two for most games this season.

He wasn’t an injury prone player when he was at Madrid, granted the premier league intensity is on another level. I feel like since SAF retired, we have been getting many more players injured, maybe ETH can get it sorted, but he is a very demanding coach, so who knows.

 

[VP89]

Sorry, rumour is more accurate.

Can you share? Must have missed it

 

[Irwin99]

Can you share? Must have missed it

Excited to see him if true!