Lionel Messi

Boom. Record holder if true. As stellar as VVD has been, Messi is stil on another planet.
 
The Barca/Messi fanboys will be in full force now after previously labelling the award a farce when Ronaldo was winning.
 
MrEleson said:
The Barca/Messi fanboys will be in full force now after previously labelling the award a farce when Ronaldo was winning.
Click to expand...

Is and was a farce. It’s awarded to the most prominent player of the team that won the CL, so by that criteria it goes to Virgil.
If it goes to Messi, it will have meant a shift in criteria, which I‘m not a fan of. Messi is the best, but this award isn’t meant for the best, which is evident in Ronaldo’s five wins.

If Messi wins, I’ll be happy for him because he values this award, but that’s it. The award doesn’t change facts. If Messi wins, I’ll be very interested to hear what he had done to be promoted from No. 5 to No. 1 in one year. Ridiculous publicity stunt of an award.
 
zkap said:
Is and was a farce. It’s awarded to the most prominent player of the team that won the CL, so by that criteria it goes to Virgil.
Click to expand...
Van Dijk was hardly great in groups especially away from home or in Barcelona. Allison saved them from going out of the groups. Origi, Wijnaldum also very key at crucial stages. He was not anymore important than Allison, Mane or Salah.

Van Dijk is a very good player, a key player but its a myth that's he's the most important and the signings of Allison and Robertson were also key.
 
Funny thing is that the season before, Messi was just as good, but still placed 5th.

GOAT gonna GOAT.
 
zkap said:
Is and was a farce. It’s awarded to the most prominent player of the team that won the CL, so by that criteria it goes to Virgil.
If it goes to Messi, it will have meant a shift in criteria, which I‘m not a fan of. Messi is the best, but this award isn’t meant for the best, which is evident in Ronaldo’s five wins.

If Messi wins, I’ll be happy for him because he values this award, but that’s it. The award doesn’t change facts. If Messi wins, I’ll be very interested to hear what he had done to be promoted from No. 5 to No. 1 in one year. Ridiculous publicity stunt of an award.
Click to expand...


This. Still a joke award. Was already beyond repair before the Messi/Ronaldo era.
 
Zehner said:
This. Still a joke award. Was already beyond repair before the Messi/Ronaldo era.
Click to expand...

It was a joke ever since a United or Bayern player didn't win it in 99. Both were going for trebles in the CL final, no World Cup that year either. The criteria is made up to be honest. Cannavaro wins it for a World Cup but in 99 they decide that neither Bayern or United players deserve it. They make it up as they go along. Sneidjer didn't win it with Holland and Inter either but Modric does. If it's just about the 'best player' then Messi and Ronaldo win it every time until they retire but they seem to change criteria year on year.
 
I don't see why Messi winning has some of you up in arms about the validity of the award.

That should have occurred last season when Messi WAS FIFTH.

He absolutely deserves this award. He was the best player in the world by far last season. Dominated La Liga and had better performances in the UCL than Van Dijk too.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I don't see why Messi winning has some of you up in arms about the validity of the award.

That should have occurred last season when Messi WAS FIFTH.

He absolutely deserves this award. He was the best player in the world by far last season. Dominated La Liga and had better performances in the UCL than Van Dijk too.
Click to expand...

It's up in arms because either Messi and Ronaldo are the only ones who can win it until they retire because they are so much better than everyone regardless of trophies or else the criteria is recognising the best players of the most successful teams. Cannavaro and Modric win it but Sneidjer and 99 United aren't recognised? What's the criteria?
 
kidbob said:
It's up in arms because either Messi and Ronaldo are the only ones who can win it until they retire because they are so much better than everyone regardless of trophies or else the criteria is recognising the best players of the most successful teams. Cannavaro and Modric win it but Sneidjer and 99 United aren't recognised? What's the criteria?
Click to expand...

Modric is literally the last person who won it.... The part in bold makes no sense. Messi was fifth last season. He wasn't even top 3 in the voting.


People can say what they want, but Sneijder IMO did not deserve to win the Ballon D'Or in 2010. He was arguably not even Inter's most valuable/important player(their defense, and Militto would be my arguments) and his world cup performance was good, but not great.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Modric is literally the last person who won it.... The part in bold makes no sense. Messi was fifth last season. He wasn't even top 3 in the voting.


People can say what they want, but Sneijder IMO did not deserve to win the Ballon D'Or in 2010. He was arguably not even Inter's most valuable/important player(their defense, and Militto would be my arguments) and his world cup performance was good, but not great.
Click to expand...

But was Modric deserving or Cannavaro? If not then why did they win it? My point was the award either celebrates a player from a successful side (ala Modric and Cannavaro) or it celebrates the best player in the World (which has been Messi or Ronaldo for a decade). So if it's the best player then only Messi and Ronaldo should have been considered since 08 or if it's the best player from a successful team then it's a travesty that a 99 United player didn't win it. They need to have consistency in what the award means.
 
kidbob said:
It was a joke ever since a United or Bayern player didn't win it in 99. Both were going for trebles in the CL final, no World Cup that year either. The criteria is made up to be honest. Cannavaro wins it for a World Cup but in 99 they decide that neither Bayern or United players deserve it. They make it up as they go along. Sneidjer didn't win it with Holland and Inter either but Modric does. If it's just about the 'best player' then Messi and Ronaldo win it every time until they retire but they seem to change criteria year on year.
Click to expand...


That's exactly what I mean, only that I was way too young in 99 to get it. For me, it went to shit when Cannavaro won it over Ronaldinho or Zidane.

Thing is, journalists - and they are the main voters - are interested in great stories which is why they loved the Cristiano and Messi rivalry. So they ignored the rest of the bunch who would've deserved it as the best players of their respective teams (Sneijder/Robben/Ribery/Iniesta/Xavi, primarily). The moment they got the feeling people were getting bored by that everlasting Messi/Cristiano debate, they decided to go back to the old criteria and placed Messi fifth and granted it to Modric because of his WC performance.
And yes, for a few years managers and captains were among those voters but honestly, everyone who's taken a look at their choices knows how neutral their decisions are.

I actually kind of like the idea that the award goes to the best player of the winning team because it means variety. But the award is ruined because they switched between the two criteria as they pleased so that you can't compare past and new records anyway.
 
VVD shouldn't be anywhere near an award. What got Liverpool to where they are is the coaching of Klopp and not VVD's performances as a player. Liverpool beat Barca 4-0 and in dominant style with Shaqiri, Milner, Henderson, Origi and Matip. Laughable to then pick out VVD for an award like he is responsible for Liverpool's success. He is part of it, he contributes to it but he isn't the main reason for it. You switch Messi's and VVD's teams and Liverpool win the tie 8-0 with Messi upfront.

If it's individual performance only - it's Messi.
If it's individual performance and trophies - it's still Messi. League title + CL semis while being the top scorer and performer of the competition.
If it's hipster "we're bored of Messi/Ronaldo" choice - it's VVD.

At the end of the day no one should care so much though. No one thinks Hacksaw Ridge is a better movie than Shawshank Redemption based on Oscar wins, so who cares. Modric winning with Messi voted 5th is a great meme now. "Not bad for the 5th best player in the world" phrases every single matchday.
 
MrEleson said:
The Barca/Messi fanboys will be in full force now after previously labelling the award a farce when Ronaldo was winning.
Click to expand...
It'll always be just an award. But given people are so obsessed with it and treat it as some sort of confirmation of somebody being the best, I suppose it's only right that Messi the best player of this era has the most.

If he wins it I'd say it's deserved. Although I'm skeptical despite the rumours. It's almost always been the CL award.

I'll definitely always believe it's importance is ridiculously overstated.
 
Cait Sith said:
VVD shouldn't be anywhere near an award. What got Liverpool to where they are is the coaching of Klopp and not VVD's performances as a player. Liverpool beat Barca 4-0 and in dominant style with Shaqiri, Milner, Henderson, Origi and Matip. Laughable to then pick out VVD for an award like he is responsible for Liverpool's success. He is part of it, he contributes to it but he isn't the main reason for it. You switch Messi's and VVD's teams and Liverpool win the tie 8-0 with Messi upfront.

If it's individual performance only - it's Messi.
If it's individual performance and trophies - it's still Messi. League title + CL semis while being the top scorer and performer of the competition.
If it's hipster "we're bored of Messi/Ronaldo" choice - it's VVD.

At the end of the day no one should care so much though. No one thinks Hacksaw Ridge is a better movie than Shawshank Redemption based on Oscar wins, so who cares. Modric winning with Messi voted 5th is a great meme now. "Not bad for the 5th best player in the world" phrases every single matchday.
Click to expand...

great post
 
zkap said:
Is and was a farce. It’s awarded to the most prominent player of the team that won the CL, so by that criteria it goes to Virgil.
If it goes to Messi, it will have meant a shift in criteria, which I‘m not a fan of. Messi is the best, but this award isn’t meant for the best, which is evident in Ronaldo’s five wins.

If Messi wins, I’ll be happy for him because he values this award, but that’s it. The award doesn’t change facts. If Messi wins, I’ll be very interested to hear what he had done to be promoted from No. 5 to No. 1 in one year. Ridiculous publicity stunt of an award.
Click to expand...

It was never supposed to be that though. It's an individual award for all of the players in the world. Instead of the last few years it turned into a club player of the season award for the CL winning team. People started calling it a farce when Ronaldo kept winning it despite not always being the best player. That was the shift that shouldn't have happened.

Messi was the best player of 2019 by a distance. He won La Liga on his own. Barca are a very poor side these days. He was even the best player over the Liverpool Barca semi final tie but was left down by Barca's defence. It will be a disgrace if he doesn't get it.
 
kidbob said:
But was Modric deserving or Cannavaro? If not then why did they win it? My point was the award either celebrates a player from a successful side (ala Modric and Cannavaro) or it celebrates the best player in the World (which has been Messi or Ronaldo for a decade). So if it's the best player then only Messi and Ronaldo should have been considered since 08 or if it's the best player from a successful team then it's a travesty that a 99 United player didn't win it. They need to have consistency in what the award means.
Click to expand...

No, it's a player of the year award. You can be the best player in the world without having the best season. A lesser player could outperform you for a year and win the award. It amazes me that people struggle with such a basic distinction.
 
zkap said:
Is and was a farce. It’s awarded to the most prominent player of the team that won the CL, so by that criteria it goes to Virgil.
If it goes to Messi, it will have meant a shift in criteria, which I‘m not a fan of. Messi is the best, but this award isn’t meant for the best, which is evident in Ronaldo’s five wins.

If Messi wins, I’ll be happy for him because he values this award, but that’s it. The award doesn’t change facts. If Messi wins, I’ll be very interested to hear what he had done to be promoted from No. 5 to No. 1 in one year. Ridiculous publicity stunt of an award.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. We've had many example of players not winning the CL and winning the B.O
 
Mark_Barca said:
Van Dijk was hardly great in groups especially away from home or in Barcelona. Allison saved them from going out of the groups. Origi, Wijnaldum also very key at crucial stages. He was not anymore important than Allison, Mane or Salah.

Van Dijk is a very good player, a key player but its a myth that's he's the most important and the signings of Allison and Robertson were also key.
Click to expand...

Don't forget Fabinho! Signing him days after the CL final loss was a huge statement. Sure, the other players you mention have clearly played a crucial role at various times, but that's what a squad is for. Hell, Henderson has played in the CL thrice, made the final twice and lifted the trophy once! But I'd still say that Van Dijk is the most important player for the CL winners and so would be a deserved winner. If you could've chosen one Liverpool player to miss a game against your team last season, who'd you prefer it to have been?
 
Last edited:
SteveW said:
No, it's a player of the year award. You can be the best player in the world without having the best season. A lesser player could outperform you for a year and win the award. It amazes me that people struggle with such a basic distinction.
Click to expand...

My point is that if it's only about the best player then Messi and Ronaldo are the only ones who deserve it since 08. Why the need for random guys like Modric and Cannavaro winning it some years but equivalent cases being ignored other years?
 
Messi must have killed it with Argentina again in 2019. Like he has for the last few years. Or maybe he won a CL? Not that either? Hmm, then I would have given it to my mate who scored 500 goals in 2019 in our Saturday 5 aside kick around. He's Goat.
 
kidbob said:
My point is that if it's only about the best player then Messi and Ronaldo are the only ones who deserve it since 08. Why the need for random guys like Modric and Cannavaro winning it some years but equivalent cases being ignored other years?
Click to expand...

It's about the best performer during a given season. During World Cup or Euro years, the award will take performances during these tournaments into account. Modric won it because he was great for Real Madrid during the entire season and then great for Croatia during the World Cup.
 
kidbob said:
My point is that if it's only about the best player then Messi and Ronaldo are the only ones who deserve it since 08. Why the need for random guys like Modric and Cannavaro winning it some years but equivalent cases being ignored other years?
Click to expand...
Modric and Cannavaro won the World Cup. The situations aren't equivalent at all
 
Dumbstar said:
Messi must have killed it with Argentina again in 2019. Like he has for the last few years. Or maybe he won a CL? Not that either? Hmm, then I would have given it to my mate who scored 500 goals in 2019 in our Saturday 5 aside kick around. He's Goat.
Click to expand...

You can always present your annual Dumb d'or award, no one is stopping you.
 
kouroux said:
Modric and Cannavaro won the World Cup. The situations aren't equivalent at all
Click to expand...

Is winning a world cup better than winning a treble? Also Modric never won a World cup. It's crazy that winning one tournament is treated better than winning 3 especially when most of the teams in the World Cup are worse than a lot of club teams.
 
JPRouve said:
It's about the best performer during a given season. During World Cup or Euro years, the award will take performances during these tournaments into account. Modric won it because he was great for Real Madrid during the entire season and then great for Croatia during the World Cup.
Click to expand...

If it's about the best performer then Messi and Ronaldo are the only ones who deserve it for a long time. Modric certainly didn't outperform them. Either make it about the best player of a successful team or give it to the best player. Really simple to be honest. If Modric was deserving then why wasn't a United player in 99 in winning an historic achievement or Sneidjer with Inter? Why bother giving it to Modric if you decide to change the criteria the next year. It's not like Modric was better than Keane or Beckham in the respective seasons.
 
Dumbstar said:
Messi must have killed it with Argentina again in 2019. Like he has for the last few years. Or maybe he won a CL? Not that either? Hmm, then I would have given it to my mate who scored 500 goals in 2019 in our Saturday 5 aside kick around. He's Goat.
Click to expand...

I think this is the dumbest post ive read here in a while.
 
kidbob said:
If it's about the best performer then Messi and Ronaldo are the only ones who deserve it for a long time. Modric certainly didn't outperform them. Either make it about the best player of a successful team or give it to the best player. Really simple to be honest. If Modric was deserving then why wasn't a United player in 99 in winning an historic achievement or Sneidjer with Inter? Why bother giving it to Modric if you decide to change the criteria the next year. It's not like Modric was better than Keane or Beckham in the respective seasons.
Click to expand...

Because it's an individual award and it's based on individual performances, Beckham still finished second at a good distance of third despite the fact that United didn't really had a standout performer since United were very team oriented. As an individual performer I don't think that Rivaldo winning it was shocking, he was arguably the best individual performer that year.
Sneijder was during a time where the Ballon D'or was merged with the FIFA award which turned it into a popularity contest and not based on yearly performances, France Football decided to stop it because they didn't like that turn.

And by the way, I don't get why people work themselves up when it comes to that type of award. It's an individual award in a team sport, it has little value other than massaging people's egos.
 
Last edited:
Hard to argue if he has won it. His performances and numbers across the season have been as insane as always. He's probably scored more free kicks than many strikers have scored goals this calendar year.
 
JPRouve said:
Because it's an individual award and it's based on individual performances, Beckham still finished second at a good distance of third despite the fact that United didn't really had a standout performer since United were very team oriented. As an individual performer I don't think that Rivaldo winning it was shocking, he was arguably the best individual performer that year.
Sneijder was during a time where the Ballon D'or was merged with the FIFA award which turned it into a popularity contest and not based on yearly performances, France Football decided to stop it because they didn't like that turn.
Click to expand...

But my argument is why is it 'team performance orientated' some years and others not. If it's for the best player then why did Modric and Cannavaro win it?
 
Matt007a said:
Hard to argue if he has won it. His performances and numbers across the season have been as insane as always. He's probably scored more free kicks than many strikers have scored goals this calendar year.
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely. In my mind if it's about the 'best player' then Messi should have 8 by now.
 
Ish said:
Typo there kouroux re Modric/Croatia?
Click to expand...
No, read the post I quoted. Modric and Cannavaro are in the same bag for this.
2mufc0 said:
Modric winning that year was really silly.
Click to expand...

kidbob said:
Is winning a world cup better than winning a treble? Also Modric never won a World cup. It's crazy that winning one tournament is treated better than winning 3 especially when most of the teams in the World Cup are worse than a lot of club teams.
Click to expand...

I never judged whether they deserved it or not, just said the situations weren't the same.
 
kidbob said:
It was a joke ever since a United or Bayern player didn't win it in 99. Both were going for trebles in the CL final, no World Cup that year either. The criteria is made up to be honest. Cannavaro wins it for a World Cup but in 99 they decide that neither Bayern or United players deserve it. They make it up as they go along. Sneidjer didn't win it with Holland and Inter either but Modric does. If it's just about the 'best player' then Messi and Ronaldo win it every time until they retire but they seem to change criteria year on year.
Click to expand...
You can't really look past Rivaldo in 1999. Player of the tournament by some distance in Brazil's Copa America win that summer, he was also hugely influential in Barcelona's league win in 1998/99. Even in the Champions League in that group of death between Barcelona, United and Bayern, there was a ball hair between the three sides and without Rivaldo's heroics the Spanish side would have been well off the pace. Comparing the performance levels of the individuals contesting for that award, it looked clear as day that he was well ahead of the pack in all competitions.

All of that said, the criteria has changed over the years and lost its value when it merged with the FIFA Player of the Year award, directly impacting on the winners in 2010 and 2013 IIRC. And Cannavaro's win in 2006 needs a bit of context in fairness. No contender dominated both the club and international games that year - Ronaldinho and Henry were in sensational club form but didn't catch alight in the World Cup, while Zidane coasted into the tournament, performed brilliantly then promptly retired. At least Cannavaro had a rock-solid club campaign as Serie A's best defender in 2005/06 and backed it up with arguably the most influential defensive performance seen at a World Cup.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.