Messi obviously failed in the CL despite being topscorer. Imagine blaming any other attacking player for bottling it in the CL despite scoring 12 goals in 10 games. It's mental that Messi is expected to play sweeper too.
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter Scarecrow
- Start date
Spot on.
Ronaldo & Messi have set crazy standards for attacking players. If Messi doesn’t win this award or Balon dor with the numbers and performances he put out last season a forward should never win it again.
If Salah or Mane has the same numbers there would be no discussion. Wait till both Ronaldo and Messi retire and we look back how phenomenal they’ve both been consistently for years.
Messi being criticised for not defending is bizarre I must say.
If Salah or Mane has the same numbers there would be no discussion. Wait till both Ronaldo and Messi retire and we look back how phenomenal they’ve both been consistently for years.
Messi being criticised for not defending is bizarre I must say.
You really feel the need to have to last say by repeating your point with nothing more to add. Let’s just leave it here.Indeed. People really do speak out of their arse. Scores 2 goals in the semifinals yet is blamed for their elimination.
Not many people talk about what a greedy bastard Ronaldo was in his last ever game for us, taking on shots from 40 yards trying to be the hero in his last game rather than playing for the team.
Why ? I'm bored at work and I do indeed have nothing more substantial to add to the simple thing I said. Having the last say is for kids. We can talk without you having the impression I wanna have the last word. That doesn't matter to me
I wouldn’t say Messi failed in last season’s CL. He created a few sitters for Barca players (most notably dembele) to put the tie away against Liverpool but they missed them. To then blame the fact that they went out after on him is a little bit harsh don’t you think, not to say ludicrous.
He did his job and more but football is a team sport.
He did his job and more but football is a team sport.
A very worthy winner. Hope he takes the silly Balon D'or one as well. He was ludicrous again last season.
Journalists will give it to Van Dijk though, as they have to seem like the smartest men in the room.
Journalists will give it to Van Dijk though, as they have to seem like the smartest men in the room.
Well you know my point and I know yours. The discussion can go on and on but we are merely just keep repeating our own points. I wouldn’t say I disagree with yours, but we are just arguing from different angles.
For me they are both the same, not voting for their biggest threat, their greed/desire on winning these award Just the same. But for you this year Messi has make a good gesture on voting for his long life rival, who doesn’t pose any threat in winning this award, a good gesture indeed, but an insignificance one too, so I don’t see it matter.
I never said he made a good gesture though. From the go, you just assumed it I guess. I just pointed out a fact is all that shows the difference between the 2. I never said anything about said gesture (if it's good or bad)
Well be it a good gesture or not, or whether it is showing difference between the 2, I don’t see it matter as the difference is insignificance.
On the other hand, had Ronaldo won CL last season and become one of strongest contender for these awards, and Messi still vote for him, then we will be talking it differently. It all matters.
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You are completely right.
And also scoring 2 goals and creating multiple goalscoring opportunities in the actual semi-final...
I’m sure his voted for Ronaldo in the past.
Does anyone know who VVD voted for?
Completely wrong, Messi voted for Ronaldo last year as well:
https://www.marca.com/en/football/international-football/2018/09/25/5ba95cf522601dc8278b457d.html
Ronaldo has always been far more petty than Messi
VVD had Messi as #1
Messi created EVERY chance against Liverpool in that second leg.
I repeat EVERY chance.
You say Barca play 5-10 matches a year without him, in recent years especially it’s been a woeful record going their last 6 matches without a win.
For Argentina without Messi they literally needed the last day of qualifiers just to get into a World Cup spot.
I don’t think simply because he doesn’t track back his team lose away matches. Messi has absolutely nothing to do with conceding 4 goals. Blame alba for two of those alone.
Suarez hasn’t scored an away goal in CL in nearly four years, is that messi’s Fault as well?
I agree, it’s a team sport, you can’t but your way to a CL, god knows psg is trying that formula.
Barca were even a spotty away team with Pep (though much worse now obviously)
I'm lucky enough to live in Barcelona and I go watch them as much as I can. Not because I'm a Barca supporter but simply because I want to watch the GOAT. Watching him you think you've seen it all then all of sudden boom, another moment of magic to add to his CV.
Don't get me wrong. I think Ronaldo has been phenomenal but sometimes with him it's like watching a machine playing. He's worked a lot harder to get where he is than Messi but then again Messi didn't need too because he was born a natural footballer. Watching Messi is like watching the worlds best magician. You're left memorised and thinking there's no way I've just seen what I've seen and then he'll go and do something even more radical.
When Ronaldo retires from the game it will be an obvious loss but no big deal. When Messi retires I'll be left wondering if we'll ever see his like again. Something I very much doubt. When that day comes it'll be a very sad day indeed.
Don't get me wrong. I think Ronaldo has been phenomenal but sometimes with him it's like watching a machine playing. He's worked a lot harder to get where he is than Messi but then again Messi didn't need too because he was born a natural footballer. Watching Messi is like watching the worlds best magician. You're left memorised and thinking there's no way I've just seen what I've seen and then he'll go and do something even more radical.
When Ronaldo retires from the game it will be an obvious loss but no big deal. When Messi retires I'll be left wondering if we'll ever see his like again. Something I very much doubt. When that day comes it'll be a very sad day indeed.
Has always been? Do you realise the website you've quoted has contradicted to what you've just said? The previous 7 years before last year, Messi has never voted for Ronaldo, in fact, he only voted for his teammate.
Giving you bit of context, last year Messi wasn't even in top 3, there's simply no chance for him winning it, so whoever he votes for doesn't affect his chance at all. This year the only player who might have better chance winning it is VVD, its between him and VVD, and of course, he doesn't vote for VVD either.
Messi is a victim of his own success over the years in some regards. When you look at 50+ goals and 20 assists in 50 games, you just think that is standard Messi. If you took him out of the equation and put those stats on someone else, it would be considered one of the best single seasons of anyone ever. Ronaldo and Messi have skewed the numbers and skewed our vision of what a great season is.
VVD is a superb player and had a great season, but his ability is slightly elevated by the fact we're in a period of poor defenders generally. Would he stick out 10 years ago when Rio/Vidic/Terry/Maldini/Nesta/Puyol were playing? I'm not so sure he would.
For those reasons I think the right man won last night. VVD seems like the favourite for the Balon D'Or but he is not the world's best player.
VVD is a superb player and had a great season, but his ability is slightly elevated by the fact we're in a period of poor defenders generally. Would he stick out 10 years ago when Rio/Vidic/Terry/Maldini/Nesta/Puyol were playing? I'm not so sure he would.
For those reasons I think the right man won last night. VVD seems like the favourite for the Balon D'Or but he is not the world's best player.
Deserved. Should win the Balon d'Or just like he should've last year. If anyone else (besides C.Ronaldo) would've won the European Golden Boot 3 seasons in a row we'd never hear the end of it. Best player and top scorer in La Liga. Best player and top scorer in the CL. All while providing lots of assists and creating tons of chances. There's no contest really
But but he didn't score hattrick in every knockout game where it mattered and didn't play Cb in defense when they were going down!
Lets be honest, its clear how CR7 tries his hardest to win this individual awards where Messi simply plays his game without really caring that much.
He has been giving away penalties to his teammates for a long time too, both in the CL and la liga. Hell, even on the season he broke the goal scoring record he gave a couple to his teammates.
Its like he really doesnt care about being known as the GOAT or beating anybody on individual statistics, yet he does it anyway, its just natural to him.
You said this was the first time Messi voted for Ronaldo, that was way off. He did it before.
Ronaldo has never voted for Messi, that's a fact.
Lets be honest, its clear how CR7 tries his hardest to win this individual awards where Messi simply plays his game without really caring that much.
He has been giving away penalties to his teammates for a long time too, both in the CL and la liga. Hell, even on the season he broke the goal scoring record he gave a couple to his teammates.
Its like he really doesnt care about being known as the GOAT or beating anybody on individual statistics, yet he does it anyway, its just natural to him.
Spot on, as they say, you can't be the King if you have to tell everyone you are the king
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Lets be honest, its clear how CR7 tries his hardest to win this individual awards where Messi simply plays his game without really caring that much.
He has been giving away penalties to his teammates for a long time too, both in the CL and la liga. Hell, even on the season he broke the goal scoring record he gave a couple to his teammates.
Its like he really doesnt care about being known as the GOAT or beating anybody on individual statistics, yet he does it anyway, its just natural to him.
I agree with your statement about Messi not caring that much about individuam trophees but lets be fair, he gave the penalty away mostly because he's terrible at it. It seems its easier for him to score a 25M FK than a penalty, that's very strange.
He isn't the best penalty taker by any means but terrible is hyperbole. Ronaldo is a great penalty taker and he only has a 5% better conversion rate than Messi. Plus most of the penalties he gives away are usually in games that are over where one of his team mates hasn't scored and where it wouldn't matter if he missed or not so your statement is bollocks.
That's just wrong, there's a couple of articles that show Messi has one of the worst record among top players.
An article from Goal in early 2019 put Messi at 75% throughout his career in liga/CL where CR7 is at 85%.
An opta stat that took into account PK over the past 4 years put Messi at 68% where Lewandoski is at 94, Kane at 85, Neymar at 88 etc.
So it's pretty obvious Messi has lost track of how to shoot them properly (he might just overthink) for a couple of years now.
It doesn't mean he's less of a fantastic player, he just sucks at PK, which isn't a big deal.
Except whenever he gives them away, its when the penalty doesnt really matter and they are winning comfortably, or when a teammate desperately needs a goal, like last year when Suarez had a shit start to La Liga.
Important penalties he shoots them all, what you said its false.
Good news is that his injury is minor. TV3 from Barcelona is saying he’ll come off the bench vs Inter if he is needed but should be good to against Sevilla next week.
No I'm not wrong. Here's a comprehensive breakdown of their penalties throughout their careers and there is a 5.3% difference in their respective conversion rates;
https://michelacosta.com/en/messi-vs-cristiano-ronaldo-penalties-missed-and-scored/
Messi - 77.19% and Ronaldo - 82.52%
Perhaps his record isn't so great in the last 4 years but you originally said he gave away a penalty in his record breaking season because he was terrible at them.. that was back in 2011/12 when there were absolutely no question marks about his penalty taking and he gave away the penalty because Zlatan was on a goal drought if I recall correctly.
So once again, you're chatting bollocks.
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That's right, Messi already had an incredible hat-trick against Zaragoza and Zlatan was struggling. Him giving up that penalty had nothing to do with being afraid to miss and all about leadership and getting his teammate under pressure to feel the ball going in the back of the net.
Don't say such stuff, he's a bad leader, not a great one, and of course terrible at taking penalties.
That was not a penalty.
Has Messi ever played under a great manager other than Pep? I know enrique won the treble, but he had Messi-Suarez-Neymar in their prime years.
Considering there were only about 4 - 5 great managers in the past 10 years the answer is: "no", obviously.
Yeah it just because Valverde is being critized for being a shit manager, but it seems like Barca have hardly needed great manager since Pep to be competetive.
He also scored 2 of the 3 goals of his team. But if the team concedes 4 goals it's his fault.
I’ll take SAF, Zidane, and Ancelotti over a group of Pep, Enrique and valverde