Yup the way he absolutely battered Ajax sure showed Leo... oh wait.
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter Scarecrow
- Start date
Yup the way he absolutely battered Ajax sure showed Leo... oh wait.
I hear you. Those still hurt a lot. That United team would win the CL every year if they were around now. SAF could have ended up with 4 or 5 of them and caught Liverpool. Just happened to come up against the best club side in history.
Maradona? His CV is loaded with non-events as is pretty much every top footballers ever.
Even Maradona did in the European Cup. I remember the 87/88 two leg affair when Real Madrid comfortably beat Napoli. Maradona didn't inspire them to win. The same was so against Spartak Moscow in 1990 over two legs.
I agree, Messi has papered over what appears to be a rather shaky side. They have a monumental task ahead of them when he eventually calls it a day.
There is a difference between creating chances when you are coasting the tie, and when your side is under the pump. Messi was fantastic in first half but once Liverpool turned up the heat in the 2nd half, he disappeared. One moment of genius in 2nd half when they really needed him and this thread would be a different story. Unfair you may call it, but football is like that.
For such a clutch player he's been pretty terrible in most of his Champions League finals.
Undeniably a wonderful player but an awful captain imo.
Leader's like Keane, Robson, Adams, Terry and Kompany are priceless in winning teams.
A strong captain would never have allowed that inept Barca performance.
Leader's like Keane, Robson, Adams, Terry and Kompany are priceless in winning teams.
A strong captain would never have allowed that inept Barca performance.
I like him but that painful look at 3:0. Just standing there helpless.
Felt for him??
This is the guy who denied us two CL trophies.
Good riddance, Messi. You had enough trophies, thanks.
Now we should just pray for Ajax.
This is the guy who denied us two CL trophies.
Good riddance, Messi. You had enough trophies, thanks.
Now we should just pray for Ajax.
Shat his pants today, the little coward.
Slightly different note, but I remember hearing quite a bit that people think Messi will transition into a CM role later in his career. Are there any people that still think that?
You seem to be missing the point. Probably on purpose. I know it's heresy round these parts to point out that these things cement legacy just as much as the positive does.
Exactly, don't know what the hell people on here are going on about. He created more than enough chances but they were finished by his team mates.
How many capitulations can you document? It's not about winning or losing, as that happens for every player, but just slipping tamely off into the night is not something you would ever associate with the other contenders for top spot.
His lack of movement is the main reason they crumble away from home in Europe.
They're lucky they faced us and Lyon so they could pad their poor, recent record
They're lucky they faced us and Lyon so they could pad their poor, recent record
Oh well, the bottler couldn't do it.
My point wasn't that Maradona featured in a team that lost, but rather than Maradona, like any other top player in history had crucial games at the elite level whereby he not only didn't score, but didn't play particularly well at a time when they required him to do so.
Historical revisionism looks back on great players and forgets that even they at times "slipped tamely off into the night". Those playing now are judged in ways that those in the past are not, retrospectively.
Oh well, the bottler couldn't do it.
I don't understand this. He scored 2 goals in the tie and took his team to a 3-0 lead, have some context - the defence was the problem.
He wandered around the pitch as if he was walking his dog when his team was 3-0 down and the tie was in the balance.
I'm not saying trying harder would definitely have helped, but he let his head drop (as usual) and couldn't be bothered.
I'm not missing the point. Does losing to Ajax cement Ronnies legacy? Nope, not a bit. And its happened many times in his career. Does having two complete non-events in his only CL appearances against competent teams cement Maradona's legacy? Not a bit.
It's a common thing to post about any footballer when things go wrong for the team but its not a bit true. Messi has saved plenty of games and let many more slip away, the same as every other top footballer.
Delusion at its finest. Please explain how Cristiano is more clutch than Gerd Muller. Scorer of 10 goals at WC 70, 2 goals to win WC 74 final against Cruyffs Holland, scorer in Euro Champs 72 final, scorer in 2 Euro cup finals to boot. Goals in the biggest tournaments, at ALL levels. Where are Cristianos clutch goals at WC and European Champs level?
He plays and moves like that at 6-0 down, 6-0 up or at 0-0. It was nothing to do with letting his head drop. Messi has his entire career cantered around the pitch for huge swathes of the game. Is that a fault, according to some yes but according to someone like Guardiola 100% not, its hugely intentional to make space.
No he would not have the balls too he would be exposed. Would be the best player wherever he goes bar Italy obviously but he would not be the same Messi as in Spain.
Perhaps there's a reason to St Pep's awful CL record post Xaviesta.
Come on, there's no benefit in being that static no matter how you try to justify it, younger Messi also was never this static . I said it before but his legs are going, one thing he does lack is natural athleticism which is catching upto him. Despite this, he was rested on weekend so has no excuse for not having any energy today though.
Yeah, I mean what would Pep know about football in comparison to you buddy? right.
I shouldn't worry about it. In much the same way 20 years down the line Messi and Ronaldo's ECL failures will be at most tiny blips on two utterly spectacular careers. Legends will always have the dirt swept aside by the passage of time.
He was completely static, all his career, Pep even admitted as much in his autobiography.
“Look at Messi, it looks like he’s walking around the pitch….he sees that he’s alone; when he sees that they’re watching him, he distances himself…
“He spends the game walking, x-raying every single moment. He’s the player who runs the least in La Liga – but when the ball comes to him, he has the complete X-ray of space-time. He knows exactly where everyone is. And Pam!”
Of course Pep is a Messi fanboy but lets not say Messi ran around a lot in his younger days because he simply didn't. He strolls around the pitch until he recieves the ball and always has.
One game doesn't define a person's legacy.
Messi was their best player and all of their dangerous attacks came through him. If Alba or Suarez take their chance, Messi is being praised for making the difference.
His walking about is a problem, but he still created enough chances for them to win.
Messi was their best player and all of their dangerous attacks came through him. If Alba or Suarez take their chance, Messi is being praised for making the difference.
His walking about is a problem, but he still created enough chances for them to win.
He's not the only one. Ronnie strolls around as the highest player on the field when his team are being counter-attacked. Unequal scales in their argumentation.
By that logic, there's no point discussing anything on here, I assume 99% of the football managers around the world know more than the average internet fan.
Don't really care what Pep says I've been watching him year in and year out, he's never been a workhorse but now he just takes the piss it's getting worse as each season passes. Furthermore, in Pep's system there's no room for a single player to be as lazy as he is now. Like I said he was never this bad at the start.
I would say so. But whats the point in arguing you got called out on your rubbish about him dropping his head, then made a dig at Pep as you had no answer to my original point, which you still don't because as I said Messi plays like that whether he's 5 up, 5 down or its a close game.
He wasn't this bad, but he did walk about under Pep too.
He was always lazy in the press, I've watched him too and he plays exactly the same. There was a reason when he played RW for Pep people said Dani Alves did the running for two and when he was pushed in the middle someone like Pedro did his defensive running. Messi was always non-existent without the ball. One thing I'll give Ronaldo over him was Ronaldo at least headed away the odd corner. Leo has never in his career offered anything from a defensive perspective.
As long as you and I fully understand that we know nothing.
Go watch a replay of the game, Messi's head clearly dropped at 3-0 and since then he literally didn't touch the ball.
As @2mufc0 pointed out, he was never going to run around all game, but since Pep left he's definitely running less and less.
Tbf he will be 32 next month, naturally his cardio won't be as good. Ronaldo doesn't run anywhere near as much as he used to either.
Again making a mountain of a mole hill to support your argument. He played exactly the same, walk around got the ball and tried to make things happen. I'd love to see his running stats season by season because to me he looks the exact same Messi albeit less explosive when dribbling.
That's what @padr81 thinks.
Personally, I think a lot of managers are rather clueless. I can see a lot of people doing a better job than Tuchel has this season.