The chart represents everyone who has scored 20+ goals in the listed competitions.
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter Scarecrow
- Start date
“This award says I’m the best player in the world, but I’m not even the best player at Barcelona,"
Ronaldinho when he received the Fifa award for the best player in the world back in 2005
It's not surprising that Messi has eventually learnt to adapt in a post-Alves-Xavi-Iniesta Barça.
He often relies on other strikers to score (Suárez), but mostly he creates his own chances.
Valverde's false 4-4-2 (an attacking MF often playing as a third striker) actually works wonders with current +30 yo pure-striker Messi.
He often relies on other strikers to score (Suárez), but mostly he creates his own chances.
Valverde's false 4-4-2 (an attacking MF often playing as a third striker) actually works wonders with current +30 yo pure-striker Messi.
If you've got 50 minutes free
This is his best ever season, and has single-handedly carried Barca.
Source: https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...nt-than-ever-and-barcelona-is-more-dependent/
Source: https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...nt-than-ever-and-barcelona-is-more-dependent/
Did the same last year, the single bad game he had cost them the CL. They learned though, Messi is playing less in the league now.
I like this beard growing now. I presume he will have horns and tail in a season or two until he is unquestionably the goat.
They're more reliant on him then ever but I'm not sure about it being his best ever season. He did score like 75 goals in all competitions for Barcelona once... 91 in the calendar year between Argentina and Barcelona. Dont think it's possible even for Messi to beat that.
And I know just posting his stats doesnt do him justice... but 91 fecking goals
Someone would have to score 30 a season for 20 years to match his goals record... mad when you think about it.
He's still not finished yet either!
He's still not finished yet either!
It's not his goalscoring record that I find impossible to understand. It's the fact that one player is a genius at so many different things. He's arguably the best passer (definitely as a creative passer) I've seen combined with an all time great goalscoring machine combined with the best dribbler I've seen (by a considerable distance) combined with arguably the most on field split second intelligence/vision I've seen. That's why you get charts like the one posted above. He's an absolute freak. The one footballer who defies logic, for me.Someone would have to score 30 a season for 20 years to match his goals record... mad when you think about it.
He's still not finished yet either!
I really think it's not an exaggeration to suggest that he could score third of the goals he did and win half the trophies he won and he still would be rightly considered one of the best players in history.
Yes I agree, that is the most impressive thing no doubt. Nobody has ever combined that kind of goal scoring ability with that type vision for playmaking/passing ability ever. It's astonishing that you can be in the conversation for greatest goal scorer ever and at the same time be considered one of the best playmakers/passers ever. I still have a hard time comprehending how it's possible to be so good at both. You would think that when a forward concentrates so much on one aspect of the sport such as scoring, that it would naturally diminish his concentration for passing or playmaking. The same could be said for a player that is constantly thinking about playmaking/passing and trying to develop his style to feed others, it would practically be impossible to develop elite goal scoring capabilities at the same time. Such has been the case so far as I can remember until Messi came a long, he defies that. The fact that he could be an elite finisher in one instant and an elite passer in another is the most impressive thing. The way he could switch his mindset between the best goal scorer and the best playmaker so successfuly at such a high level has never been done.
Yeah goal scoring is just part of it. Said it few times, for me he is GOAT, best player in the world, best passer, dribbler, playmaker and now also free kick taker.
Was that free kick against Liverpool his best ever free kick? Was insanely good that.
In my opinion this one is much better, from a similar distance, the placement is so perfect, it's impossible to stop once the keeper made a little step to the right. You can't blame the keeper in a shot like that.
Last year was incredible, amazing in la Liga. He was saving Barcelona every single time. I remember him playing vs Sevilla coming up from being a sub with Barcelona losing 2-0, and he got the 2-2 goal with a great shot. Then he did the same v Valencia I think.
Thing is they were about to win La Liga unbeaten I think for the first time in their history and they lost to Levante in the last game. Guess who didn't play in that game
Last year was incredible, amazing in la Liga. He was saving Barcelona every single time. I remember him playing vs Sevilla coming up from being a sub with Barcelona losing 2-0, and he got the 2-2 goal with a great shot. Then he did the same v Valencia I think.
Thing is they were about to win La Liga unbeaten I think for the first time in their history and they lost to Levante in the last game. Guess who didn't play in that game
From an Argentinian perspective, has Messi finally overtaken Maradona in the GOAT list?
No, and he's probably never gonna do it. Maradona as a character is way more representative of the argentinian personality, in terms of courage to play and leadership, and in the way he expresses himself. He's a fecking clown outside of football but at anything related to it he's considered a God here, far more than Messi is. Since we're a society that lives comparing and we just fight with each other (Messi fanboys vs Maradona fanboys) we don't realize both are argentine, and people diminish one of them to prove the other one is bigger, all the time.
Thing is, for what Maradona has done at the NT level both in 1986 (specially his match vs england after the war) and 1990 (specially for his play vs Brazil in 1990, and the way he insulted the italians for booing the anthem), for his personality, for how much of an "argentinian" he is, it's almost impossible to be replaced in terms of greatness. Messi personality wise is different, being a humble and shy guy outside the pitch and with many people and journalists critizicing him for not having the leadership and personality he should have. And you must add to that that he hasn't won a major trophy, despite having playing 3 finals in a row and losing 2 on penalties. Here if you don't win you're nothing, and many people don't care about anything else than that, and of course they don't care about what he does at club level.
In the end, in my eyes and I think in the eyes of most people it's impossible to deny that Messi is the best player that was born in the argentine soil, over the likes of Maradona, Di Stefano, Bochini and Norberto Alonso. But it's impossible to match Maradona in terms of greatness in Argentina. Not even winning the WC would get that. But my feeling is that, by the time Messi retires, Argentina will realize how much of a player he really was, and how lucky we are because him and Maradona are both argentinian.
and the kids will grow up hearing about these legends.
Excelente. I think Messi is a much better player than Maradona was. Mundial 86 though...No, and he's probably never gonna do it. Maradona as a character is way more representative of the argentinian personality, in terms of courage to play and leadership, and in the way he expresses himself. He's a fecking clown outside of football but at anything related to it he's considered a God here, far more than Messi is. Since we're a society that lives comparing and we just fight with each other (Messi fanboys vs Maradona fanboys) we don't realize both are argentine, and people diminish one of them to prove the other one is bigger, all the time.
Thing is, for what Maradona has done at the NT level both in 1986 (specially his match vs england after the war) and 1990 (specially for his play vs Brazil in 1990, and the way he insulted the italians for booing the anthem), for his personality, for how much of an "argentinian" he is, it's almost impossible to be replaced in terms of greatness. Messi personality wise is different, being a humble and shy guy outside the pitch and with many people and journalists critizicing him for not having the leadership and personality he should have. And you must add to that that he hasn't won a major trophy, despite having playing 3 finals in a row and losing 2 on penalties. Here if you don't win you're nothing, and many people don't care about anything else than that, and of course they don't care about what he does at club level.
In the end, in my eyes and I think in the eyes of most people it's impossible to deny that Messi is the best player that was born in the argentine soil, over the likes of Maradona, Di Stefano, Bochini and Norberto Alonso. But it's impossible to match Maradona in terms of greatness in Argentina. Not even winning the WC would get that. But my feeling is that, by the time Messi retires, Argentina will realize how much of a player he really was, and how lucky we are because him and Maradona are both argentinian.
and the kids will grow up hearing about these legends.
No, and he's probably never gonna do it. Maradona as a character is way more representative of the argentinian personality, in terms of courage to play and leadership, and in the way he expresses himself. He's a fecking clown outside of football but at anything related to it he's considered a God here, far more than Messi is. Since we're a society that lives comparing and we just fight with each other (Messi fanboys vs Maradona fanboys) we don't realize both are argentine, and people diminish one of them to prove the other one is bigger, all the time.
Thing is, for what Maradona has done at the NT level both in 1986 (specially his match vs england after the war) and 1990 (specially for his play vs Brazil in 1990, and the way he insulted the italians for booing the anthem), for his personality, for how much of an "argentinian" he is, it's almost impossible to be replaced in terms of greatness. Messi personality wise is different, being a humble and shy guy outside the pitch and with many people and journalists critizicing him for not having the leadership and personality he should have. And you must add to that that he hasn't won a major trophy, despite having playing 3 finals in a row and losing 2 on penalties. Here if you don't win you're nothing, and many people don't care about anything else than that, and of course they don't care about what he does at club level.
In the end, in my eyes and I think in the eyes of most people it's impossible to deny that Messi is the best player that was born in the argentine soil, over the likes of Maradona, Di Stefano, Bochini and Norberto Alonso. But it's impossible to match Maradona in terms of greatness in Argentina. Not even winning the WC would get that. But my feeling is that, by the time Messi retires, Argentina will realize how much of a player he really was, and how lucky we are because him and Maradona are both argentinian.
and the kids will grow up hearing about these legends.
Fabulous post.
Thanks mate. I fogot to add Kempes on the list of our greatest players.
And another massive factor about Messi not being considered as great as Maradona apart fom what I've said, it's the fact that he never played in our league. We always saw him from far away. I think it causes an impact because we have a strong local culture of football and Messi isn't part of it. And the fact that Messi was "rejected" by Newells old Boys or River Plate (who didn't want to pay for his treatment) and that Spain as a country and Barcelona as a Club gave him everything, he still wanted to play with us and he told to the spanish directives who tried desperately to make him play for Spain, that he is argentine and wanted to play for Argentina, should be way more appreciated. There are interviews of Messi being a 14 yo kid saying his dream is to play for Argentina, and many people here treats him as a spanish guy cause he lived there for most part of his life. He actually chose to play for us despite everything, and still does despite everything (the FA being a disaster literally, and the journalists blaming him for everything that happens).
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Funny the thread's not bumped today.
This is why he is not the #1 player for those who have seen the other 2 turn improbable games around at the most key moments.
As good as he was in first leg, he was equally bad tonight.
This is why he is not the #1 player for those who have seen the other 2 turn improbable games around at the most key moments.
As good as he was in first leg, he was equally bad tonight.
um nah, he's still the best player who's ever lived.
A player will never beat a team.
A player will never beat a team.
2 years in a row in this has happened to Barca.
The man for the big occasion?
The man for the big occasion?
To be fair without him Barcelona wouldn’t have gotten this far.
He put Alba and Suarez both in 1 v 1 with clear chances today at 1-0. He was the only Barca player who played well tonight.
Useless
Yes he did. There's another Argentinian who would've then done more should those around him not deliver.
We're talking greatest of all time - there's too many of these non-events in his C.V.
Strange game to criticise him. I thought he was OK but all the others around him were atrocious. He can't win alone.
Messi is greatest in the attacking phase but he is uselss in the defensive one. Laziest great player ever.
Very good on the ball. Very lazy off the ball.
And Coutinho. Three assists
Why exactly? Because his team conceeded 4 goals?
he was literally the only one that keep creating chances. strange game to single him out, but I get it, most of us would love to punch someone atm.
He set up 2 great chances. That would have been more than enough if he was surrounded by a team with even a tiny amount of character.
Football is an 11-a-side sport.
Imagine if he had Ronaldo to feed balls and cross to and not Suarez/Coutinho
Messi is still GOAT but he simply can't influence games as well away from Camp Nou at elite level.
That's been the case for last few seasons now. He still plays well but the postage stamp free kicks into top corner don't seem to occur as much on the road.
That's been the case for last few seasons now. He still plays well but the postage stamp free kicks into top corner don't seem to occur as much on the road.
The one time in my life I ever needed you to win a game, you absolute fecking bottling cnut.
Where are all the objective and rational people in Redcafe? The Messi vs Ronaldo thread is an absurdity. There's no objectivity at all. Hardly anyone is capable of analysing things outside of broad sweeping judgments.
When a team plays poorly, collectively, and the only chances created are by one single player, leading to 2-3 one-on-ones, is that an argument for Messi not showing up? No, of course not. Both shots just wide of the post came from Messi. All chances created came from Messi. Should Messi be held accountable for Suarez, Coutinho not showing up? for Alba and Sergi Roberto's poor showing on both offensive and defensive sides?
Should he single-handedly dribble from midfield, through half-a-dozen Liverpool players and put it in the top corner? Is that what's required for Messi to avoid the label of bottler? If that's the prerequisite then that's just unrealistic, even for Messi.
When a team plays poorly, collectively, and the only chances created are by one single player, leading to 2-3 one-on-ones, is that an argument for Messi not showing up? No, of course not. Both shots just wide of the post came from Messi. All chances created came from Messi. Should Messi be held accountable for Suarez, Coutinho not showing up? for Alba and Sergi Roberto's poor showing on both offensive and defensive sides?
Should he single-handedly dribble from midfield, through half-a-dozen Liverpool players and put it in the top corner? Is that what's required for Messi to avoid the label of bottler? If that's the prerequisite then that's just unrealistic, even for Messi.
If you watch a compilation of all his touches in this game later you will think ''what a fantastic performance'' When does he ever plays bad like, Sanchez bad or Young bad ?