My point wasn't that Maradona featured in a team that lost, but rather than Maradona, like any other top player in history had crucial games at the elite level whereby he not only didn't score, but didn't play particularly well at a time when they required him to do so.
Historical revisionism looks back on great players and forgets that even they at times "slipped tamely off into the night". Those playing now are judged in ways that those in the past are not, retrospectively.
There are degrees to this - losing a game of football isn't the issue, especially when the body of work is strong enough to put him in contention for a spot among the esteemed 3, but to be above them, it's times like these, when players like them showed up more often than not, that count.
It is not good to be on the end of so many tonkings where you, as the supposed greatest player of all time, had less impact on the game the more your team needed you.
i think with how his head dropped, it's just so polaric to Maradona, especially, who thrived in adversity not wilted under it.
You can argue that if the passes he laid on (which were sublime) had been converted, that this would be a different conversation, but they weren't and thus another avenue would be sought be the aforementioned where it wasn't with Messi. This conversation isn't about normal players, it's about glitches in the matrix, who do glitch in the matrix things in times of need.
There's no denying Messi's quality, but it isn't unique, and certainly not enough to put him above the other two, so then, more must be sought, and it's games like this, especially in composition, that really do start to formulate a picture.
I'm not missing the point. Does losing to Ajax cement Ronnies legacy? Nope, not a bit. And its happened many times in his career. Does having two complete non-events in his only CL appearances against competent teams cement Maradona's legacy? Not a bit.
It's a common thing to post about any footballer when things go wrong for the team but its not a bit true. Messi has saved plenty of games and let many more slip away, the same as every other top footballer.
Winning and losing in football is par for the course.
How one loses or wins defines character and cements legacies. Messi looking startled and at a loss when his team are under the cosh in these kind of games when the chips are down is starting to look formulaic and predictable. It's not what you expect from one who people claim is the 'greatest' of them all. The only time you'd see Maradona look so forlorn is... well, I actually don't know. Win or lose, Maradona didn't do it meekly. In terms of strength of character, there isn't a contest to be had.
I shouldn't worry about it. In much the same way 20 years down the line Messi and Ronaldo's ECL failures will be at most tiny blips on two utterly spectacular careers. Legends will always have the dirt swept aside by the passage of time.
Well that's not true. Great players in teams that get smashed have it indelibly printed in their C.V. whether as an objective point in discussions, or, simply to try and place them in these imaginary tier lists.
Messi has won far more than he has lost, (but these CL hammerings are actually racking up now) so of course this won't define him, but it won't be swept under the rug either.
One game doesn't define a person's legacy.
Messi was their best player and all of their dangerous attacks came through him. If Alba or Suarez take their chance, Messi is being praised for making the difference.
His walking about is a problem, but he still created enough chances for them to win.
It certainly determines an order - just ask Baggio, who would've been hailed as something else entirely, and above Romario, but for one game. Or Ballack, or Cruyff, or Puskas, or Zico... the list goes on. but for the one game they lost, their elevation to a higher status was forsaken. Cruyff, the world cup winner, is spoken of in the same breath as Pele and Maradona, not as one of the next few after them.
We're talking the greats here, not normal players. One game can indeed take them up a notch or notches.
