Two good months for Chelsea and Costa is the greatest of all time. fecking knee jerking cockneys.
Lionel Messi
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almost thought someone was really that brainless to post Diego "Costa" in here!Yep, we should go to the Ronaldo thread and start a Ronaldo v Pele debate!
Fixed for you amol
Contributed to 4 goals today in a 6-0 drubbing. I know he hasn't had the same goalscoring record so far but when you look at his assists and his impact on Barca so far, he has been absolutely ridiculous. With Xavi gone and Iniesta not being the same player he once was, he has taken on the mantle of being the main playmaker whilst also providing an excellent goal-threat. I know many will be blinded by Ronaldo's 13 goals from 9 games but Messi has 5 goals and 7 assists in 7 games. Also need to remember that Ronaldo has scored 7 of those in 2 matches. Not trying to downplay Ronaldo here but I think Messi has been more consistent and has been more instrumental to Barca's great start than Ronaldo with Real. Just using Ronaldo as a reference point, not trying to turn it into a Messi vs Ronaldo debate.
He has probably assisted just about every goal of Neymar who has 6 goals so far in the la liga. He has had an assist/goal and was MOTM in every game he played barring the Malaga game. He is just simply running the show as he always does but I think he might not get the plaudits he usually gets if his goal-return diminishes slightly and his assists/control of the game increases. That would be such a pity...
He has probably assisted just about every goal of Neymar who has 6 goals so far in the la liga. He has had an assist/goal and was MOTM in every game he played barring the Malaga game. He is just simply running the show as he always does but I think he might not get the plaudits he usually gets if his goal-return diminishes slightly and his assists/control of the game increases. That would be such a pity...
Playing like a #10 and despite pressing more than I can recall for a couple of seasons, looks like he's barely breaking a sweat. Probably should've had a hattrick as well as the offside call was harsh. It'll be interesting to see how Lucho uses Suarez since he will require double marking and create more space
Loved his header goal, all one touch - Xavi, Dani & Leo
Loved his header goal, all one touch - Xavi, Dani & Leo
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6 games, 5 goals 7 assists. Had a hand in 12 of Barcelona's 18 goals this season and heavily involved in two others.
Sadly Ronaldo and Messi are judged on goals only to your average fan.
Given Messi is now the central playmaker for club and country, has lost that little burst of acceleration and has changed his game significantly, I figured it's a good time to revisit this debate. Does the fact he's shown he's capable of doing this elevate Messi in your opinion, particularly given he's now done it on the international stage too?
Oh well, I understand your point but there seem to be some strong favouritism here...
Anyways both are truly great players and are on great form, their performances in the early season have been nothing short of amazing.
dont waste it. Spoony has a man love for Maradona
He hasn't lost his acceleration at all, it's a myth born out his lazy performances over the past 12 months, much of it where he was injured, could even put allot of it down to becoming a new dad. He's just had a role change. Argentina have a non existent midfield with an overloaded attack and the same could be said of Barcelona.
Speaking of which, I thought Xavi had his best game yesterday for about two years, infinitely better than Iniesta has been this season
Speaking of which, I thought Xavi had his best game yesterday for about two years, infinitely better than Iniesta has been this season
Disagree. I think he's definitely slower. Even when he stole the ball for his second goal, he was just about caught up by the time he shot, from memory he was quicker than that a couple of years ago.
Fair enough, RedRonaldo
I will admit I am biased but you got to admit that Messi has been absolutely sensational and consistent so far, probably more than any other player. He has won the man of the match award for every game barring the Malaga one and has been tremendous so far. I will admit that Ronaldo has been deadly as well and was better than Messi in last season whilst deservedly winning the Balon D'Or. Right now both are on great form and probably on equal footing but I will probably give the slight edge to Messi due to my bias.His "creative" passing is something else. Over the last 5 years I'd be surprised if anyone's created as many chances as him. I think he created the most chances at the world cup as well.
Yeah while I was saying he's lost some speed, I'm not having a dig at him. I do think it's incredible how he's suddenly made himself the main playmaker for club and country. Always thought he could though given his game intelligence and incredibly passing ability.
He's not doing anything differently though. His ability to carve defences through his passing has been there for ages. It's just a positional shift where the dropper he deeps he'll get to show it more often. I doubt he'd have any problems dropping even deeper into a midfield three when he gots older.
That's very true. I think it's admirable though that he's dropped off and isn't getting on the end of as many chances himself. He's really doing his bit for the team. Let's just say I can think of players who wouldn't be happy doing that.
Always been like that, just he has the balance to not get bundled over. Contrary to popular belief, he's never even been that quick anyway, just a good burst of acceleration mixed with great ball control.
Here, this was one of his very first goals back from injury in January:
Does that look like a player losing a yard of pace?
Class yesterday, man of the match stuff, admittedly against cannon fodder. it will be interesting to see if his role changes when Suarez comes in for Munir.
And his assist from the right showed that he most definitely has a right foot.
And his assist from the right showed that he most definitely has a right foot.
He didn't suffer any set backs, and you don't just lose your pace like that in the space of a few months otherwise (unless you're tired).
Barcelona as a team are very lacklustre these days too, defences seem to crowd them and they lack a plan B (see Malaga). Messi's entire game is then effected, only so much he can do in those crowded areas.
Barcelona as a team are very lacklustre these days too, defences seem to crowd them and they lack a plan B (see Malaga). Messi's entire game is then effected, only so much he can do in those crowded areas.
I think the loss of Messi's acceleration/pace has been overstated imo. If you want a more recent example look at Messi outrunning Hummels in the WC final.
I was initially of the opinion that Messi was kinda meh in that game (probably due to that uncharacteristic miss in the game) but when I watched it again he was actually pretty good.
Anyway, I think the point about Messi losing his pace is simply because of his languid style and his lack of directness generally. When you look at the more direct players like Robben, Hazard and Di Maria, whose first option is mostly to take on their opponents, you kinda get the impression that they are faster than the more conservative Messi who tries to retain possession as often as he can. That is obviously due to his La Masia education and well his style of play. Before someone misunderstands my point, I am not saying that Messi is faster than those guys, he is not, just stating that their differing styles of play has a impact on our general perceptions of their acceleration/speed.
Sometimes I wonder how Messi would have turned out under another manager/system. Not saying it would be a better Messi but I don't know, probably a more selfish, risky and direct but less creative Messi. That would have been interesting. Anyway, Messi still has his excellent burst off the mark and good pace but not as much as he was when he was a youngster which is totally understandable.
Hazard is actually similar in that he looks faster than he actually is, great footwork and balance gives him the extra half yard, and he can run at his top speed with the ball at his feet, helps. In a straight up sprint you'd be surprised how many times he's beaten to the ball.
I think Messi would have won Real the league in the last few years if he were in that side instead. They're rarely faced with packed defences and have such a lightening counter attack it does make me wonder just how many goals and/or assists he would have got in that team.
I think Messi would have won Real the league in the last few years if he were in that side instead. They're rarely faced with packed defences and have such a lightening counter attack it does make me wonder just how many goals and/or assists he would have got in that team.
He really made Hummels look like a rank amateur in the video..
He's definitely slower than he used to be. When he beat players before he was gone and couldn't be caught now that isn't the case. He wasn't fast but he had that speed to get away from them.
He really is the best i've ever seen, his ability is ridiculous. A technically perfect player with that tactical intelligence and the flexibility to play various positions. He doesn't need to score 50 plus goals for this team, he will score 30-40 and dictate the game in the final third along with Iniesta.
He really is the best i've ever seen, his ability is ridiculous. A technically perfect player with that tactical intelligence and the flexibility to play various positions. He doesn't need to score 50 plus goals for this team, he will score 30-40 and dictate the game in the final third along with Iniesta.
Maradona was the best and only Ronaldinho got closer but he fecked, I saw Maradona live playing against Sporting (tie I think) and everything he did was from another planet.
Not elevate, per se, but certainly solidifies him and makes clear he can be a top tier force well into his 30's.
In that sense, he's given himself the chance to lengthen whatever legacy it is that he ends up having.
As things currently stand, I'd opt to wait to see how the rest of his career unfurls before trying to rank him - I find it very hard to place him at the moment.
Having said that, the way he has switched is a little odd, not to say that as a undermining statement, but rather that others changed their game because they had no choice (Maradona becoming overweight, aged and very injury prone curtailed a lot of his marauding, same goes for Ronaldo) whereas theoretically, Messi's prime should be roundabouts the age he is now. He's not as fast as he used to be and his stamina has seemingly dropped considerably over the last 18 months, so perhaps there is an underlying reason why he's actively changing his play, I dunno, but his transformation - or modification - is somewhat unique for one so young who hasn't experienced major injury especially.
All 401 goals, the guy has too much patience..
Looks a decent player this Messi lad.
Made that finish look so simple.
That move was so fluid and that scooped pass for Neymar later on was so
He kind of faded away in the second half but most certainly wasn't helped by his team-mates poor performance esp Neymar and Pedro. I really really don't understand Alves's persistent high crosses, it is baffling. Fine it got them a goal after poor defending from PSG but 9 out of 10 times you will back the opposing defenders to comfortably head the ball away. Alba had a nightmare today defensively and offensively as well. Iniesta was also kind of okayish today. In fact I'm struggling to pick out players who were good for Barca today bar Messi. Mathieu was pretty good defensively though but other than that most players were extremely mediocre.
He got man-marked by Matudi. Pedro, Neymar and Iniesta had a bad game. Still managed to carve out a few chances for them but overrall Barca were terrible.
They made David Luiz look like a proper defender. Says it all really...
His finish was wonderful.
Was our "best" player tonight relatively speaking.
Barca's problem is we're too slow, too predictable "as usual" , and tonight some terrible defensive mistakes !!
Barca's problem is we're too slow, too predictable "as usual" , and tonight some terrible defensive mistakes !!
I would love to kill a few players tonight - Busquets, Pedro, Alves especially.
And I almost guarantee that the team would be stronger if these players leave. I am convinced that certain players have less IQ than platypus - I am referring to Alves. His crossing is atrocious. Why would you ever do a cross when you have forwards like Messi and Neymar in the penalty box? Total brainfart from this guy.
Has there been a guy who lives a charmed life like Busquets? He neither does any defensive duty, nor does anything in attack. Simply moves around lazily in the whole pitch. He has been a total passenger last 2 years. You pressure him, and he goes numb. Check his WC performance.
Lucho must had some expensive shit today to actually think he could play 4-3-3 in a away CL game.
And I almost guarantee that the team would be stronger if these players leave. I am convinced that certain players have less IQ than platypus - I am referring to Alves. His crossing is atrocious. Why would you ever do a cross when you have forwards like Messi and Neymar in the penalty box? Total brainfart from this guy.
Has there been a guy who lives a charmed life like Busquets? He neither does any defensive duty, nor does anything in attack. Simply moves around lazily in the whole pitch. He has been a total passenger last 2 years. You pressure him, and he goes numb. Check his WC performance.
Lucho must had some expensive shit today to actually think he could play 4-3-3 in a away CL game.
What did you make of Neymar and Pedro? Both horrendous I thought despite Neymars goal, he's far too lazy. And Pedro just hasn't been able to do anything right for the past couple of years, always takes the wrong option.
Just curious what would you have done?
Going by our record of away CL games (just 4 wins in last 13 games), it's obvious that the tactic isn't working. For Barcelona, the mistakes the managers make are easy to rectify. But all these managers are stubborn and inflexible. Started from Pep and now Lucho.
1] 4-3-3 with a defensive mid like Busquets will not work, hasn't worked last 3 years, won't work now. He was lazy previously, now he is a liability. Everyone knows that, and he was exposed badly in the world cup even with a defensive player like Alonso along with him. If he plays (I would rather play Samper), Masche should play next to him.
2] Pedro is worthless, if anyone is willing to pay us around 25m (not worth it, but beacuse of brand name), I will be jumping in joy. Not just beacuse we lost the game, I think he has been complete shit last 2 years. Not any better than Welbeck. With him wide, we simply play with 10 men. Luckily we have Suarez in his place.
3] We can't have 2 full backs bombarding forward at same time. Alves is anyways a complete waste, has been a waste last 2 years.
I would personally liked to go 4-4-2 in a away CL game without Suarez. Pique in defence, Masche in CDM along with Samper/Busquets. Pedro should not even be in the bench. Alves shouldn't be allowed to touch the ball. Montoya should be bang on starter, no questions asked.
With Suarez in the team, I would play 4-3-1-2 or a more traditional 4-2-3-1, with Messi as pure #10.
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