Ray Hudson
Lionel Messi
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Yes that wanker. I posted about him on the Worst Commentator thread. fecking hate him. I would rather watch a game in Spanish than listen to that useless fat bastard.
Di Stefano is no Messi though.
Why the hate? I find him entertaining and funny.
Funny? He should be no where near the commentator's box. How could you possibly find him entertaining? Commentary is not for everyone. And it is certainly not for him.
So Xavi > Maradona? And Cannavaro should win BPITW in 2006??
If you're calling the club football the "comfort zone" for the great players, then I'm calling the World Cup the "lucky zone" for players who "hit form at the right moment, and get a little lucky".
Also, if the World Cup is the real measure for how good a player is, then I don't know why is there much debate about who's better, Maradona or Pele. Looks like an easy question to me. 3 > 1.
Ray covers the sport like an enthusiastic kid and he expresses the same sort of enthusiasm regardless of who is playing. Despite being a self professed Madridista, the Geordie does show a lot of joy in watching Barcelona
Pelé had slightly better team mates in fairness, and really he himself only won two World Cups.
So I'm not allowed to enjoy the commentary you don't enjoy?!
There are many commentators that should stay away from the commentary box, he is definitely not one of them.
Agree, and this is the point.
For me it's refreshing to have different type of commentators, not the same boring shit. He's unique in that respect, and I like his enthusiasm and sometimes he does crack me up with his metaphors.
I'm not sure I understand the point. No-one's saying he needs to win 3 World Cups like Pelé or take them to consecutive World Cup finals like Maradona, they're just saying that questions will be asked if he's unable to show anything like his best form at international level. If he stars in a tournament but his team-mates let him down then it'll shut up most of the critics, I don't see how that's unfair in any way.
I particularly enjoy the moments he ridicules his partner, whom I can't stand, Phil Schoen. Not often you hear a commentator rubbishing the comments of their on air partner
People are talking about "winning" the World Cup, not showing up.
Also, he has proved that he can perform with his national team (when he's played in the right role).. However the World Cup is IMO too small a field to be able to judge a player.. It's all about how Messi will play in those 3 weeks. And then he will only get another chance when he's 30.
Do you know that Rooney hasn't even scored a single goal in the World Cup? I mean even Heskey did! Should we judge them based on that?
Messi has only 13 goals in competitive internationals.
He has only scored 2 goals in the Copa América finals.
His international record isnt great at all. Its the only weakness that anybody can point to in the debate on his greatness.
Yes it should be held against Rooney.
The World Cup might be a short competition but that's it's beauty. Everything is on the line and there isn't another chance next week like in a league or next year like in the cls. That additional pressure and the fact that its the most coveted prize in the sport make performing in it important.
oh joy the tiresome world cup debate once again.
I know i'm late to finding these but i'd rather admire these than have that boring nonsensical discussion over and over
I know i'm late to finding these but i'd rather admire these than have that boring nonsensical discussion over and over
I agree. His total records with the international team have to be considered. And when I said "when he's played in the right role" I was referring to his run of games since Sabella took charge. Will be interesting to see if he can keep it up.
^
This
People forget Messi didn't scored a single goal on the last WC and Argentina has better players than any other team(players but not a team). Best is upthere for me with the greatest and I mean Pele and Maradona his problem was playing for a weak national team.
That goal just makes me think of Baresi's comments on Maradona:
It really is that simple. He's already lost the battle when Messi slowed it down and took him head on. Insane acceleration there. It's the perfect finish but because it's Messi it's barely even impressive any more.
The thing is, Leo almost routinely goes to his left, as well. So as a defender, even shepherding him to his right doesn't give you the advantage you'd imagine. And that lob over the keeper, has anyone used that more than he has?
I do enjoy the relationships/friendships he strikes with opposing keepers as well. There's massive respect even at the end of big matches between them. Abbiatti, for example, came over for a handshake with Leo with a big grin at the end of the match the other night
I do enjoy the relationships/friendships he strikes with opposing keepers as well. There's massive respect even at the end of big matches between them. Abbiatti, for example, came over for a handshake with Leo with a big grin at the end of the match the other night
That goal is insanely good.
I watched that gif last night about 20 times.
I watched that gif last night about 20 times.
Based on what?
Cannavaro did deserve it. He won his domestic league and was key in a world cup win in a world cup year.
Which would still make you wrong. Pele and Maradona didn't get lucky to perform and win a world cup by being the key player. Neither did men like Cruyff, Platini or Zidane who shone at world cups without winning them.
This notion that men like Messi or Ronaldo will obliterate all at club level, do little of note at international and world cup level and be considered in the same bracket as Pele and Maradona is simply a pipe dream.
Furthermore denying that club football is tailor made for the best to succeed is simply burying the head in the sand like an ostrich.
That is because you simply don't understand the arguments being made. The argument is the greats are separated by how well they have done at international level and at world cups.
That is why Pele is rated above Maradona and every one else as the greatest. Not only did he perform at club level, like the other greats did, he was the business at international level, at 3 world cups and unlike them key in 3 world cups wins.
Thus, it is not a mere matter of ''the real measure for how good a player is''. Rather it's a measure of who amongst the greats is greatest. For international level and world cups are largely a level playing field for all greats. It's up to them to carry or inspire their teams.
In addition, If club level was all that counted Di Stefano would be rated as the greatest bar none easily. Having been key in 5 Champions cup wins in arguably the greatest club side ever. Not to mention the league titles he won for that same side.
I have never seen anyone who uses so much and so efficiently.Messi chips the ball over keepers while running at a high pace, the control it takes to do that consistently is crazy.He can even do it on his right foot
No. You simply misunderstand their arguments.
He was played in the right role at the Copa America and was utterly awful.
That is why people repeatedly talk of international football. International football is not only the world cup. It has more than enough games to judge any player on.
One of the reasons why he wont ever be considered amongst the football greats. If he doesn't sort it out.....
I'm convinced he is the best at lobbing the ball in football history.
Not sure about that.
He already is, a huge number of people regularly talk of him as the greatest footballer to have played the sport and that includes many old timers who have seen the rest. He might not be considered to be up there by yourself, but you'll be in the minority. Especially with international football becoming less prestigious and a bigger bore with each passing year.
The only people who believe international football is outdated/irrelevant largely reside in the British isles and small pockets of Europe. Most of the world doesn't share that view. If Messi doesn't have a single international tournament in which he really imposes himself, and possibly wins as a result. Only his fan bois will consider him greater than Pele and Maradona.
And yes, if Rooney doesn't start showing up at big international tournament only the British will rate him as a great.
That's a lot of nonsense mate.
I'm not sure what gives you that impression either. It's certainly not a small pocket and to dismiss them as fanboi's because they don't share your view (which is probably more in the minority) isn't fair.
And for what it's worth, he was excellent at the 2007 Copa America, before his country went into turmoil and started flopping.
It's easy to do great things in possibly the greatest club side ever. Many would like to see if he can replicate his club success when he isn't surrounded with Xavi, Iniesta and co. He needs to win a world-cup to prove the doubters wrong, just like Pele & Maradona did. Until then, he's not quite there.
Easy, sure. Alexis Sanchez thought so too
Sanchez, Ibrahimovic, Villa. Look at all the records they're breaking.
It's easy when Xavi and Iniesta are there to assist something like 10 out of your 73 goals
I don't understand the question about Rooney either?He'll have to win a world cup or he'll never be as great as Fernando Torres, Emmanuel Petit, Stephane Guivarch and Luca Toni. Or he just has to be a big stand out or he'll never be as good as Diego Forlan.
Meh!
Messi is already the greatest player in history in my eyes, based on that I simply cannot comprehend that any player has ever been better than him. He scores picturebook goals every single week. He is an absolute genius of a lifetime and I cannot begin to imagine what his career stats will look like when he does retire.
Whether he wins a WC or not is irrelevant for me. Cruyff didn't win one either, yet he still gets listed amongst the all time greats.
Whether he wins a WC or not is irrelevant for me. Cruyff didn't win one either, yet he still gets listed amongst the all time greats.
Bah, these arguments are tedious & fairly pointless. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, there will never be universal unanimity on anything or anyone so what's the point?
Tune in to watch him each match, you're sure to see something special. Pure joy.
Tune in to watch him each match, you're sure to see something special. Pure joy.
Bollocks, Messi's the greatest ever.
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