I didn't watch the game last night but Messi has gone shit as I always knew it would happen eventually. Barcelona are going to have to come to terms with the fact that he just isn't the player he was; perhaps now would be the perfect time for a £25m bid to test their resolve.
Lionel Messi
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He's the wrong side of 25 now. We should be investing in youth. I'd much rather we spent double that on Neymar.
Injury? Or the schedule finally catching up with him? In either case they'd play him just because of the fear factor, and because he'll have wanted to play - it'll be interesting to see if he gets rested before the return.
Anyway, here's a really silly graphics in which you too can erase Messi from a match using only your mouse:
http://www.intereconomia.com/noticias-/punto-pelota/barca-mas-decepcionante-20130221
After last night's performance I don't think there can be any question anymore as to which is the better player, but nevertheless I think that Messi for around £25m could still prove to be a wise purchase. Both the player and his agent will know when the time is right to make the move to pastures new; perhaps a change of surroundings will go some way towards him rekindling the form of a few days ago; and thus they'll both have been looking at last night's game with one eye firmly fixed on the Premier League.
That's a bit steep for someone who plays the game like he did yesterday. I think £15m would be a more fitting price.
That still seems a bit too much for a player we'd be taking a risk on, I mean we're not even sure he'd cut it on a cold rainy night in Stoke. And if he can't do it on a crisp evening in Milan, I think it's pretty obvious he couldn't. Do not want.
We've already got Rooney and van Persie, I'm not sure where he is going to play, he could probably replace Valencia on the right but I think he's too selfish for a winger and would cut inside too much and I can't think of anything worse than Rooney, van Persie and Messi all trying to get on the ball around the oppositions box.
What the hell for? Let's start saving and buy Messi's baby!
Milan were indeed perfect defensively and they did a great job of nullifying Messi, but he did an even better job of doing that himself. He has very much been in poor form ever since the turn of the year, don't let the goals fool you. He's been lethargic and uninvolved in build-up for the most part these past two months (aside from a couple of great moments when he drops deep and threads through balls). But it's not only that. Last season marked the start of this trend where he will mostly walk about between the opposition's DMs and CBs and wait for his team-mates to create a chance to be on the end of. As a result, his general play and work rate is miles from what it was in 2008-11.
Of course there are mitigating circumstances, for example he did play a full 90 minutes away to Granada (where he was needed to turn a 1-0 deficit into a 1-2 win) at the weekend. IMO, Iniesta and Xavi were equally poor last night and they were rested. Nobody really looked up for it either. Now, unless they score in the first half in the home leg, they're going out for sure.
Didn't you catch the game last night? There are serious question marks over Messi at the moment; sometimes players fall victim to the hype around them, you never know exactly how they're going to develop, and in Lionel Messi it seems that the talent falls somewhat short of what was expected of him. He was a very good prospect, he's still got something there if he can pull it together; not every player is fully developed by the age of twenty five; but, sadly, things don't always pan out as they might have done for the Messi's and the Riquelme's and the Richardson's of this world.
Of cos... it was the fault of his useless team mates, terrible manager, the dreadful weather and the noisy Italians.
Some of the comments in this thread is 
Messi's fallen victim to his own hype. It's clear for all to see.
He doesn't track back anymore. He's a glorifed Berbatov. Only not as tall or silky!
Messi's fallen victim to his own hype. It's clear for all to see.
He doesn't track back anymore. He's a glorifed Berbatov. Only not as tall or silky!
He needs to bulk the feck up if he wants to be a top player!
Indeed! My bad. However, he still has the technical abilty, so of you mate him with a marathon runner, do you think that would solve the issues? That baby might just be worth a punt!
Wrong side of 25 for that - all he can ever aspire to now is a cross country runner, but he is too lazy for that. Should become a pundit!
Milan got it spot on last night, I can see them winning the second leg too as Barca will have to attack and therefore leave space in behind for Milan to exploit.
Even of you succeeded in mating him with a marathon runner (and that's a big 'of'), I'm not sure what, of anything, would be solved. This is the problem with Messi though; with him it's all ofs and buts.
I've heard that you can't improve stamina once you turn 15 years old, so I think you're spot on about him being best off becoming a pundit.
Some of the comments in this thread is
Messi's fallen victim to his own hype. It's clear for all to see.
He doesn't track back anymore. He's a glorifed Berbatov. Only not as tall or silky!
People have been talking about Messi's work rate for a while now.
The difference in this aspect between him now and in 2009 for example is remarkable and difficult not to notice - the two players are fairly unrecognisable in terms of general play outside the box, work rate, positioning when other players are in position, etc. This is in some part down to his role but talk of tracking back is irrelevant and missing the point. It's been so apparent for a while now that it seems insufficient to say that it's down to tactics or him being conservative.
There's nothing wrong with pointing that out whilst also acknowledging that he is still the best, the most talented and perhaps the most on form player on the planet (I say perhaps on that last count because the form of Iniesta in recent months makes it less clear). Even the greatest of players have their flaws and it'd be pretty blind not to see this one. If you don't watch the games and just see Messi's name come up on the scoresheet every week you'd think he was consistently imperious, but that hasn't been the case in recent months at all.
He'll probably shit all over Milan next time round, mind. Saying anything particularly damning about Messi based on one game alone after the absurd consistency that has been his career so far is mental.
I don't think anyone's doubting Messi has been the best player in the world for the past few years (and still is), but the opening post of this thread asks the question whether we're witnessing the greatest player ever. After the Milan game, I felt his performance was significant in this debate. Others trashed this notion and referred to this as "one game". While no player is omnipotent, it was the manner of Messi's disappearance as Barca limped to defeat rather than his valiant attempt to save them from it, that resounded the most.
And it reminded me of an argument I read 10 months previously by a Barcelona fan on their forums, who felt Messi had a long way to go to be mentioned in the same breath as Zidane and Ronaldinho. Last night's game only seems to have reinforced the opinion, when the opportunity was there to dispel it. This may seem like TLDR, but I think it's a well informed argument:
And it reminded me of an argument I read 10 months previously by a Barcelona fan on their forums, who felt Messi had a long way to go to be mentioned in the same breath as Zidane and Ronaldinho. Last night's game only seems to have reinforced the opinion, when the opportunity was there to dispel it. This may seem like TLDR, but I think it's a well informed argument:
now thats crazy...
Messi = D10S
of course he cant be mentioned in the same breath as Zizou or Dinho... they just wished.
Messi = D10S
of course he cant be mentioned in the same breath as Zizou or Dinho... they just wished.
Most of that post is a load of revisionist rubbish. He's got a long way to go to be considered in the same breath as Zidane? I can't even be bothered to argue. He's quoted about 3 games in 7 years, one in which Messi was 18!
It's probably worth noting that teams didn't quite set their stall out as defensively against Ronaldinho's Barcelona as they do against Messi's. Certainly not 10 men behind the ball for 80 minutes the way most of their games pan out these days.
It's probably worth noting that teams didn't quite set their stall out as defensively against Ronaldinho's Barcelona as they do against Messi's. Certainly not 10 men behind the ball for 80 minutes the way most of their games pan out these days.
That doesn't say too much about his workrate, he can score goals blindfolded in la liga.
Tbf, it's become little bit frustrating, I don't know what Barca's fans have to say about that, he obviously has earned himself to walk through the whole game if he wants, but you expect better effort from him in maybe one of biggest games of the season(so far), especially when your team is losing.
Some of the comments in this thread is
Messi's fallen victim to his own hype. It's clear for all to see.
He doesn't track back anymore. He's a glorifed Berbatov. Only not as tall or silky!
No one said he should track back, he was never doing that, but if you compare some of his performances over last few years in big games with this year, you should easily see the differnce, his workrate(in attacking sense) before was much much better.
They've all done that, Maradona was very poor against Brazil in '82. And of course he topped it off by acting like a spoilt kid with that shocking foul.
Don't agree at all, he got through a lot of defensive work in his teens.
They had football in 1982?
The article is just terrible.
And some of the reaction here.
And some of the reaction here.
Messi was very poor. Worst game from him that I've seen in at least 2 years. We highlighted him post-match and managed to put together a 1 minuted clip of his failings. His decision making was just off and he was made completely ineffective. Tactics that have been deployed before but not yielded the same performance. The reason is therefor him being shit, defenders being better or a bit of both.
I'd say it was option three. Ambrosini was absolutely everywhere and the center backs didn't falter.
Anyone trying to read something more out of this than Milan having been the better team, their tactics worked to perfection and Messi just had a bad game is simply overreacting. It's not like he hasn't had bad games before. I know it's rare but it does happen. It's just that this was the CL and not just a league game.
Sorry, I ignored his first couple of years while he was playing on the wing, meant in last few years during false 9 role.
Are you on crack?
In fact, I've rarely seen it, bar the few odd exceptions, deployed. Even the 2004 Greek team weren't as intentionally defensive minded. I suspect the degree to which he is marked in such circumstances is unprecedented.
Basically yeah. He's almost always "boxed in" by 4 players (2 holding mids and 2 centre-backs) and all alone by himself.
Fair enough opinion. I strongly disagree.
Messi has never faced a team that executed those tactics with the perfection Milan did. Not even Jose Mourinho were this good. Milan tactics rendered Messi, Iniesta, Alves and Xavi ineffective all at the same time. It was a spectacle to behold.
That is why I have been insisting Messi wasn't having an off night. He was simply made to look bad. Milan's defensive performance was up their with Italy's Vs Holland in the Euro's back in 2000. He won't face many sides that will be able to replicate that against him and Barca. I even seriously doubt Milan will be able to pull it off again.
Ambrosini and Milan stuck to him like flies on shit!
He had no time to think nor touch the ball in any comfort in his favored areas near and around the box. And to make a Messi ruffled on the ball anywhere is some achievement. And he wasn't the only one. How many times have Iniesta and Xavi been made peripheral figures, with Alba and Alves being turned into version of off form Valencia?Fair enough opinion. I strongly disagree.
Messi has never faced a team that executed those tactics with the perfection Milan did. Not even Jose Mourinho were this good. Milan tactics rendered Messi, Iniesta, Alves and Xavi ineffective all at the same time. It was a spectacle to behold.
That is why I have been insisting Messi wasn't having an off night. He was simply made to look bad. Milan's defensive performance was up their with Italy's Vs Holland in the Euro's back in 2000. He won't face many sides that will be able to replicate that against him and Barca. I even seriously doubt Milan will be able to pull it off again.
Ambrosini and Milan stuck to him like flies on shit!
I agree that Milan's performance deserves enormous credit, as it was that good defensively (they nullified Barça in a way seldom seen, unlike Chelsea and Inter who still allowed many shots and chances), but Messi's been off his game since the winter break. He had a couple of notable moments against Málaga and Valencia, but apart from that he'd done little to suggest a great performance would have followed here. I'm not saying that an in-form Messi would have made a difference, but he would have reacted quicker in certain situations and not gotten frustrated so easily as he did. Iniesta, however, was in good form going into this game (so fair to say he was nullified) and Xavi came back from injury. Ambrosini was very impressive on Messi, I agree.
The next 4-5 games will be vital for Barça's season (Cup return against RM, league game against RM and CL return), so they'll need Messi to step it up big time or find a way to not depend so much on him. Starting Villa (maybe even Tello) more often would be an improvement IMO.
Unquestionably the best player of this generation. Do miss his old dribbling though, he's a fecking cobra when it comes to the penalty box but at the expense of some of the runs he went on. Goals are the name of the game I suppose.
the best i've ever seen....
he has raised the bar and its hard to see any young player in world football becoming the player he has become
he has raised the bar and its hard to see any young player in world football becoming the player he has become
Impossible to take the ball off him tonight, they kept kicking him and he kept on running
He hasn't dribbled too much, but some of his touches in tight areas were brilliant tonight, Milan players kept falling on their arse.
That first goal was truly exceptional. Not only deadly accurate but executed from a pocket of space at lightning speed. It's not even a half chance. It's what you get if you abuse the slider settings in Fifa. It's cheating!
Weren't there some saying he hadn't been playing too well lately? Genius.
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