Messi was shite. John O shea could have done a better job with his big frame.
No, Just kidding about the JoS part, but Messi was terrible.
No, Just kidding about the JoS part, but Messi was terrible.
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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Aye, please keep telling me what i think.
After I saw El Clasico on the weekend and saw how poorly the second best team in La Liga defended, I felt convinced that Ronaldo would have scored 100+ goals every season in that league.
Messi's first goal was a horrible defensive mistake (class finish though!), and his second when Heinze completely forgot about Messi and instead tried to run into a crowded situation where the Madrid-defenders already outnumbered Barca was equally attrocious.
I still have no clue who's the "better player", but let's be honest, that boy Ronaldo is.
Messi's first goal was a horrible defensive mistake (class finish though!), and his second when Heinze completely forgot about Messi and instead tried to run into a crowded situation where the Madrid-defenders already outnumbered Barca was equally attrocious.
I still have no clue who's the "better player", but let's be honest, that boy Ronaldo is.
He was far from "terrible" to be fair.
He clearly wasn't terrible. In fact I thought he kept ball very well when surrounded by Blue shirts.
All I ask for is a bit of perspective.
All I ask for is a bit of perspective.
Kept it exceptionally well at times, his passing was a huge let down though. Always trying to play the killer ball.
To be fair, you are correct.
But for the hype that surrounded him before the match, you have to agree he didn't live up to it.
No. But that doesn't mean he's not a fantastic player. He's different to Ronaldo. Ronaldo clearly can't retain possession like him nor does he have his dribbling skills. However he's faster(that breakaway goal was amazing). Also has a better shot on him and he's great in the air too. I'd say they're equal, but if Ronaldo pulls off another master performance in the final, he'll get my vote.
Passing and crossing were awful. He's clearly not the finished article, but he's only 21.
It did last long .
He's 21 though and he can only get better.At his peak he'll peak very hard to stop
He's 21 though and he can only get better.At his peak he'll peak very hard to stop
Again, I was only talking about this match. I've always maintained that Messi is a supremely talented footballer.
Seasons and performances are periodic gauges of how efficiently a footballer users his talent. This is no fair way to judge a footballer, but hey it's a team game, and that's the fairest way yet.
And Messi is amazingly quick in short bursts. Perhaps he's quicker than Ronaldo in the first 5 meters.
Messi's new theme tune:
He was absolutely stunning last night, not a single other player who could layed that ball to Iniesta last night, it was a good shot, but let's not kid ourselves that was one of the classiest passes you are ever gonna see.
When Maradona would have done a bit more with the ball while said blue shirts would be breaking his kneecaps right under the ref's nose. I think the Maradona comparisons people keep raising are unfair....on Maradona.
Saying that I still think Messi is one in a generation type of player. But to reach the top echelons he needs to move to the best league around at the moment - the prem.
There's only one Addictyeah, Messi's low centre of gravity no doubt helps him with the quickness of his feet and dribbling in tiny spaces as well as his burst of pace and acceleration, all helpful when dribbling with speed. Ronaldo would deffo beat him in a longer distance race.
Aye over long distances he really isn't super fast, he's quick but not that quick. Kakas goal for Brazil against Argentina shows that, Kaka could run faster with the ball than Messi without it.
Saying that Messi can run as fast with the ball as he can without it too.
You know nothing about Boca Juniors or the Argentine league of the early 80's.
Football, and league structure, was nothing like it is now back then. Domestic leagues in South America were easily the match of anything Europe had to offer.
i dont believe that for a second and yes i know nothing of the argentine league of the early 80s. Still don't believe that. Money was really coming into the game more in the 80s so good players tended to end up where the money was.
However i imagine it's probably simelar to today but doesn't get any half way decent prospect shipped off to europe at the earliest opportunity.
By the mid 80's things had started to change, but most players could comfortably stay in their home leagues without the need to prove themselves in Europe.
Argentina were world champions at the time Maradona broke through. How many of those world cup winning players do you think played in Europe?
You shouldn't stick your neck on the line if you've no clue about the subject matter.
I don't actually know that much about the entire Argentine squad of 78 however doinga quick bit of research concerning the two most important and highly rated players from that squad (Kempes and Passarella) it is evident that both played in europe. Sure Passarella not until 82 but Kempes was at Valencia as early as 77.
I know that the 80s was something of a financial boom in football and that importing stars from further afield was becoming the norm, that's why i would assume a 21 year old Maradona would find his way to europe sooner than later along with a whole host of stars from South America.
I still think the idea of the argentine league being as good as the top leagues in europe as a little far fetched, sure the gap wouldnt be like it is now but it was still there as far as i'm aware.
Of course i'm sure you watched plenty of domestic argentine football in the 1980s and are a firm authority on the matter....
only 1 player from a squad of 22 was playing in Europe at the prior to the world cup win. The strength of Argentine football was easily a match for any league in Europe. You saying Maradona was still at Boca at 21 as if he was at a lesser level is inherently false. He was playing at a level equal to, or better than, anything in Europe.
Serie A's big money boom did not happen until at least the mid 80's and even that is nothing like the true boom in the mid 90's. All domestic leagues of world cup winners or challengers were extremely strong until the 90's because mass exodus of talent to where 'the money' was did not exist.
I know far more about Argentine football of the time period when Maradona played there than you, which is what matters. You spout things so willy nilly and dimissively that it's annoying.
Fair enough, i assume too much. I've read his book and he said as much himself and i dont doubt the strengh i just find it strange that all the big stars from south america ended up in europe, even in the 80s. And th world cup winning side you speak of was in 1978, 4 years later the majority of the squad played in europe at some stage if they werent there already, this is 82. By 86 i imagine it was even greater. So with the majority of the best south american players already playing in europe as early as 82 i just find it hard to imagine the argentine domestic league in the 80s was as strong as the top leagues in europe.
But fair play, you know your 1980s south american domestic football better than me so i'll take your word that the argie league was as strong if not stronger than its euro counterparts.
Some went to Europe - not many, and by no means the majority.
Those leagues produced a lot of talent that stayed in their own league for their whole career or even give or take a season - no different to how the majority of Italian, English or Spanish players stay where they are now.
It shouldn't be brushed over or dismissed like it is on here. You're not the only one who does it, I feel it's important to make clear those leagues were very, very strong and not the pillaged shambles they are now.
Don't know that much about S American football 2 decades ago, but based on the fact that S American teams actually have a BETTER record in the Toyota Cup, I think they must have been quite good back then.
if i'm not wrong the argentinian team that won the 1978 world cup had all his footballers playing in argentina
the one that won in 1986 had around 7 players in europe, the rest where in argentina
so the argentinian tournament in 1980 was very good
Kempes was at Valencia pissing all over La Liga prior to 78wc
He looked painfully like a player still learning how to play the game against Chelsea. Spanish League's too easy for him I think. He didn't know how to deal with a team who actually need to be broken down, and as a result he just looked like a less headless version of Aaron Lennon.
Give it a couple of years and he'll be far better at finding space, in the same way Ronaldo improved his game.
It was a bit gay how he obviously got all of his footballer mates to come out and claim he should be World Player of the Year though. How childish can you get?
Still, suppose you don't get to be that good at something without being an arrogant cock about it.
Give it a couple of years and he'll be far better at finding space, in the same way Ronaldo improved his game.
It was a bit gay how he obviously got all of his footballer mates to come out and claim he should be World Player of the Year though. How childish can you get?
Still, suppose you don't get to be that good at something without being an arrogant cock about it.
ok, then 21 out of 22 players where playing in argentina
i just checked and only in spain, england, italy, france, germany and portugal there are 110 argentinian footballers
we have a lot more in turkey, greece, russia, netherlands, belgium
that's a lot of footballers to lose for a league
Spot on.
Ronaldo struggles just as much against teams that play that ultra defensive way. Messi is not the only attacking player to be stifled out of a match. It happened to Maradona in 82 and it still continues to happen to Ronaldo and will continue to happen. Teams can defend well and when a team of top class players defend with such organization and tactical astutness then it is difficult for any team or player to break them down.
Now Messi is an arrogant cock?
because noodlehair has decided that messi done the rounds to get his friends to tell the press he's the best? get a grip, like adult footballers cant give an opinion when asked for it? don't you think they are always asked about him or Ronaldo or whoever is being touted as the best?
Messi isn't the one who declares himself the best in the world, prances about in silver hotpants and acts like he's the king of the world. All Messi does is play football and outside of that he says nothing, he's quite boring really, so boring that if he was arrogant it would be pretty hard to tell.
Basically that's one of the most obvious attempts to belittle Messi, basically lying to make yourself look good and a player look bad and making false claims and accusations. Very clever...
Now Messi is an arrogant cock?
because noodlehair has decided that messi done the rounds to get his friends to tell the press he's the best? get a grip, like adult footballers cant give an opinion when asked for it? don't you think they are always asked about him or Ronaldo or whoever is being touted as the best?
Messi isn't the one who declares himself the best in the world, prances about in silver hotpants and acts like he's the king of the world. All Messi does is play football and outside of that he says nothing, he's quite boring really, so boring that if he was arrogant it would be pretty hard to tell.
Basically that's one of the most obvious attempts to belittle Messi, basically lying to make yourself look good and a player look bad and making false claims and accusations. Very clever...
obvious? why?
Obvious? because nobody could actually believe he's the best surely
He clearly gets his mother to phone them all up before they give interviews telling them that if they don't tell the reporters and journalists that Messi is the best he'll cry and leave barcelona
pathetic attempt at belittlement. Messi has never came across as anything but humble in my opinion. Well actually he's had some bad words to say about opposition teams like Rangers FC etc but that's hardly surprising.
Any one with a bit of common sense barring fanbois of Ronaldos wouldn’t find it hard to figure out that Messi had a good match. Cannot figure out the English media's match ratings clearly an insult to the footballing intelligence.
His attacking counterparts were barely able to string three passes together once they moved the ball to the attacking third, Alves was massively shite, Eto anonymous, Iniesta barring the goal was trying to do too much and even Xavi's through balls hit only the opponents.
Unlike Ronaldo in a bad match, Messi maitained his foothold in the attack eventhough he was sourounded by three or four rentboys, never had trouble in going past his marker whoever it was and also set up the winning goal. He wasnt penetrative, as his other attacking team mates were horrible.
Ronaldo scoring two great goals cannot really change the fact he is not as good as Messi.
His attacking counterparts were barely able to string three passes together once they moved the ball to the attacking third, Alves was massively shite, Eto anonymous, Iniesta barring the goal was trying to do too much and even Xavi's through balls hit only the opponents.
Unlike Ronaldo in a bad match, Messi maitained his foothold in the attack eventhough he was sourounded by three or four rentboys, never had trouble in going past his marker whoever it was and also set up the winning goal. He wasnt penetrative, as his other attacking team mates were horrible.
Ronaldo scoring two great goals cannot really change the fact he is not as good as Messi.
You're the biggest fanboi on here. Messi was ok, 6/10 performance. Stop making excuses for him.
Embarrassing, isn't it? Blaming Messi's teammates (the most on-form attacking outfit in Europe) is desperate beyond belief.
Let's face it, it was another Lennon-esque performance from Messi.
- A couple of glitzy dribbles which failed to create anything dangerous, either losing possession or having to pass backwards.
- A failure to put in any dangerous crosses, in fact his crossing was outright woeful with several sailing out of play.
- A failure to test the keeper with any decent shots.
- An assist that any player could have laid on, and apart from that, not a single good chance laid on for a team-mate.
If you ignore all that he was the BPITW by a mile.
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