Lionel Messi

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amolbhatia100 said:
Why compare him to the worst performers in the Barca shirt ? In fact he wasnt much better. How was he a threat really? A couple of asthetically pleasing dribbles means nothing. He just showed that hes talented with the ball at feet. In terms of hurting the opposition and helping his team constructively in doing so, he did nothing.
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There were times when he threaded passes and you could hear the gasps from the chelsea fans, but for fantastic last gasp sliding tackles by alex and terry they would have created clean opportunities. Then the time he burst through the middle and was synically hacked down, that happend twice and the ref ignored one.

I honestly just think this is a typical over-reaction because he wasn't outstanding, which as soon as chelsea scored early i knew he wouldnt be. Cole man marked him and Cole does that job brilliantly. Then when messi did cut inside Malouda was slotting in at left back so that cole could follow him around.


amolbhatia100 said:
Obviously, but were talking about the very best players here. It wasnt an excuse for Ibra and it shouldnt be for Messi. And infact, Messi is aiming a lot higher than the likes of Ibra. Its in these situations that the best prove themselves. I still remember how Ronaldhinio produced that magical goal out of nowhere to get Barca the advantage against Chelsea a few years ago.
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No denying that, and i'm not saying Messi was great, or even good i just think he was a threat in a simelar way to Ronaldo, things were not always going his way but he still looked dangerous. Like when he blazed a shot over after making space for himself or burst past cole a few times, cole actually didnt tackle him once, or maybe just once...

Anyway Messi in his first uninjured year and his first as the number 10 has had a brilliant season. he's 21 and played to a fantastic level all year. He could play a blinder in the final or he could play like he did against Chelsea, we'll have to wait and see. I just think it's daft to even think about writing a player of his talent off already.
 
No one with writing him off, just pointing out that not only it is very debatable who's the best player in the World this seaosn (Ronaldo delivers when it matters most!!!).

It is certainly very premature to compare Messi to the likes of Maradona like some of you have done earlier in this thread.
 
Cal? said:
No one with writing him off, just pointing out that not only it is very debatable who's the best player in the World this seaosn (Ronaldo delivers when it matters most!!!).

It is certainly very premature to compare Messi to the likes of Maradona like some of you have done earlier in this thread.
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Which is a fair point cal.

As for the maradona comments i've said he is potentially as good. Given Messi could decide the biggest game in club football whilst Maradona was still at boca in argentina leads me to still have these opinions. He's 21 ffs.
 
Cal? said:
No one with writing him off, just pointing out that not only it is very debatable who's the best player in the World this seaosn (Ronaldo delivers when it matters most!!!).

It is certainly very premature to compare Messi to the likes of Maradona like some of you have done earlier in this thread.
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Agree. Both great players no doubt but i think this whole thing stems from people claiming Messi to be in a league of his own. And i've always maintained that 'while it may be possible becauase he is insanely taltned, he is yet to prove it'. And last night he didnt prove it, he proved that hes just like the rest. Infact Ronaldo has taken a few steps forward this season in terms of turning it on against the best. As far as im concerned its all in the balance, and it if any of these two is a league ahead of the rest they will have to prove it over the next few years, they havent as of now.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Which is a fair point cal.

As for the maradona comments i've said he is potentially as good. Given Messi could decide the biggest game in club football whilst Maradona was still at boca in argentina leads me to still have these opinions. He's 21 ffs.
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Potentially... well, Cristiano Ronaldo could be potentially better than Pele, I prefer to talk about the now rather than the future.
 
Cal? said:
Potentially... well, Cristiano Ronaldo could be potentially better than Pele, I prefer to talk about the now rather than the future.
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Aye in your opinion. I'm not getting into a Messi/Maradona/Pele/Ronaldo argument again. It's one of the most rediculous arguments i've ever let myself get involved in and i've had more than my fair share of rediculous arguments on the caf.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
Agree. Both great players no doubt but i think this whole thing stems from people claiming Messi to be in a league of his own. And i've always maintained that 'while it may be possible becauase he is insanely taltned, he is yet to prove it'. And last night he didnt prove it, he proved that hes just like the rest. Infact Ronaldo has taken a few steps forward this season in terms of turning it on against the best. As far as im concerned its all in the balance, and it if any of these two is a league ahead of the rest they will have to prove it over the next few years, they havent as of now.
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Agreed, I think that's the point most of us have taken offence to...

No one is doubting the fact that Messi is a supremely talented player, but just cannot agree with statement.
 
Cal? said:
Agreed, I think that's the point most of us have taken offence to...

No one is doubting the fact that Messi is a supremely talented player, but just cannot agree with statement.
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For large parts of the season he really was untouchable though. In the semi finals he struggled. That is two games out of an awful lot. In the final he could make the difference, or Ronaldo could. It'll be a facinating encounter and i'm not ruling out either.

I always maintained that Ronaldo was world class and one of the best, i just didn't subscribe to the ready opinion of him being the best but this is what we've been argueing about for 100 odd pages and it's pointless. they are both brilliant, for me on his day i'd have messi, others would have Ronaldo but that is football. Until one drops his level or the other gets to yet another level it'll be a this close. There are plenty of other players with the ability that these two have as well and it only takes one season of brilliance to win a ballon d'or etc...
 
FranklyVulgar said:
For large parts of the season he really was untouchable though. In the semi finals he struggled. That is two games out of an awful lot. In the final he could make the difference, or Ronaldo could. It'll be a facinating encounter and i'm not ruling out either.

I always maintained that Ronaldo was world class and one of the best, i just didn't subscribe to the ready opinion of him being the best but this is what we've been argueing about for 100 odd pages and it's pointless. they are both brilliant, for me on his day i'd have messi, others would have Ronaldo but that is football. Until one drops his level or the other gets to yet another level it'll be a this close. There are plenty of other players with the ability that these two have as well and it only takes one season of brilliance to win a ballon d'or etc...
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For large parts of the season Messi has been great, in fact I've said many times that upto March Messi was having the much better season. However, his great season is no better than Ronaldo last season, which is what I have been arguing over these 100 pages.
 
kouroux said:
It's amazing, just because you think Messi has performed the best this season it makes you fanboy ?
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Yeah and i'm a barca fan because i've enjoyed watching them this season.

You can't have an opinion which praises a player without being a fanboy. I give my honest assessment of a player in each game and because i don't agree that he was awful in the 2nd game i'm a fanboy, despite saying the first leg was the worst i've seen him all season.

I guess i'll need to go entirely in the other direction, be hyper critical of Messi, disregard barcelona as a good team and focus all my attentions onto United and Ronaldo whilst ignoring football outside of the EPL in order to reverse my fanboy status.
 
Messi the BPITW?

Nah.

We have 2 in our team that are better and more effective. If Rooney and Ronaldo had the time and space he got in most la liga games they'd hit double the amount of goals as him.

Quality player he is, BPITW he most certainly is not.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
hypocrite alert.
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Fanboy alert. :lol:

I mean, here we have, Ronaldo being a no show against Arsenal even though he scored 2 goals, the reason being he was 'anonymous' throughout the game. Messi put on a horror show on both the legs.

For the record, two matches are not enough to judge a player. I think he's been tremendous this season, and he'll most probably get the Ballon D'Or and fittingly too.

There's no shame in us telling 'Messi has been the best player this season', because frankly, he's having a monstrous season. But what we are trying to argue in this thread is statements like 'Ronaldo was never as talented Messi ever was'. That gentlemen, is called taking the piss. They are both supremely talented players, and they are both judged on the season's results. Last season, Ronaldo dicked on Messi and this season, Messi is above everyone else. If next season, Ronaldo has a proper pre-season, blah blah, and turns it up a notch, he'll again be the best player of the season.

The point being, their effectiveness are judged on the basis of a successful football season. It's very hard to call between Messi and Ronaldo in terms of all round football talent, even though they play similar positions. It has been argued to death about how Ronaldo is more complete and Messi being the better dribbler. Since it's very hard to compare both these talented players, we'll have to agree that it's impossible to rate who is the best player among the two.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
Yeah and i'm a barca fan because i've enjoyed watching them this season.

You can't have an opinion which praises a player without being a fanboy. I give my honest assessment of a player in each game and because i don't agree that he was awful in the 2nd game i'm a fanboy, despite saying the first leg was the worst i've seen him all season.

I guess i'll need to go entirely in the other direction, be hyper critical of Messi, disregard barcelona as a good team and focus all my attentions onto United and Ronaldo whilst ignoring football outside of the EPL in order to reverse my fanboy status.
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FranklyVulgar, with all due respect, it's not you alone in this thread. What riles us in this thread is some of the most ignorant statements like 'Messi is the demi God, Ronaldo can never be what Messi is'.

I personally have no problems if a Barca fan bigs up Messi and tells he is better than Ronaldo. Of course, any Barca fan say 30 years old, will treat Messi as his own kid.
 
I don't care what you wrote fishfingers15, you're a worse wind up than cal and dippersripper. And you are the ultimate hypocrite and over user of smilies, you have nothing decent to say about anything, even when you try and act like a human being you fail, you're a grade A twat, a total mug and a wanna be wum merchant. I don't have time for that. I see that you now try and come across as objective after your little "why does it have to be this way!!!" thread, sorry but i don't buy that for a second.
 
kouroux said:
It's amazing, just because you think Messi has performed the best this season it makes you fanboy ?
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It's terribly terribly arrogant of me but at this minute i feel that the BPITW tag should not be given to a player who, week in week out, only tests his skills against inferior opposition.

There. I said it. Like i said, terribly terribly arrogant ;)
 
kouroux said:
It's amazing, just because you think Messi has performed the best this season it makes you fanboy ?
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Taking cheap shots at Ronaldo just to make Messi look like a better player and magnifying Messi's achievements and talents does make Vulgar a fanboi.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
I don't care what you wrote fishfingers15, you're a worse wind up than cal and dippersripper. And you are the ultimate hypocrite and over user of smilies, you have nothing decent to say about anything, even when you try and act like a human being you fail, you're a grade A twat, a total mug and a wanna be wum merchant. I don't have time for that. I see that you now try and come across as objective after your little "why does it have to be this way!!!" thread, sorry but i don't buy that for a second.
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I'm glad I made such an impression on you.

:lol: (My trademark smiley at the end of the post)
 
Merman said:
Taking cheap shots at Ronaldo just to make Messi look like a better player and magnifying Messi's achievements and talents does make Vulgar a fanboi.
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I was talking about myself tbh and not FV.
cw1984 said:
It's terribly terribly arrogant of me but at this minute i feel that the BPITW tag should not be given to a player who, week in week out, only tests his skills against inferior opposition.

There. I said it. Like i said, terribly terribly arrogant ;)
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You have a valid point though.The question is what should be worthy of honors, consistency throughout an entire season and in the most important games ?
 
Merman said:
Taking cheap shots at Ronaldo just to make Messi look like a better player and magnifying Messi's achievements and talents does make Vulgar a fanboi.
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I've been highly complimentary of Ronaldo on too many occasions, now and again i rise to the bate and say something over the top, who doesn't? it's a football forum after all and these things happen.

It doesn't matter what i say about your Ron, as long as my opinion remains that i think Messi is better i'll be branded a fanboy but you and everyone else fail to realize i'm not the one bringing Ronaldo into any thread with a mention of Messi.

Uniteds Ronaldo fanboys actually resent Messi and barcelona just because anyone would dare to call them the best in europe or call messi the best in the world.

Ronaldo has had some awful performances this season and i'll admit as much, i'll admit as much when Messi does the same just like i did last week when he was awful against Chelsea.

Honestly it is completely blown out of proportion, it's like watching Scotland when fletcher plays these days, the fans actually want him to be rubbish and ignore anything good he does whilst picking out the bad points. I'll never be like that with any player, even a player i don't particularly like wont get that from me.

Ronaldos best performance this season was against Arsenal in the 2nd leg, i gave him 10/10. I'd give messi a 5 for last week and 6 for this week.
 
kouroux said:
I was talking about myself tbh and not FV.


You have a valid point though.The question is what should be worthy of honors, consistency throughout an entire season and in the most important games ?
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Surely a combination of the 2?

It's unfair to expect a player to perform in every single big game and it's equally unfair to expect the same level of performance all season.

Last season Ronnie tailed off in the final stretch, lucky for us it seems this time he's peaking at just the right time.

I'm putting my neck on the line when i say this, but i genuinely believe there is a pretty large gulf in class between us and Barcelona. They have some quality players and play some lovely stuff, but they simply don't know what to do when the going gets tough. We will stifle their midfield in the final and they will get frustrated, then our quality in the final third will show and we'll beat them 2-0.
 
I think Messi should move to OT so we can judge first hand, I quite fancy seeing Ronnie, Rooney and Messi playing in the same team. :D
 
You don't need to tackle a player to keep him calm. No wonder you think Spanish defences are the best in the world.
 
FranklyVulgar said:
In that case Messi at least beat him twice as many times as he was tackled. Case closed.
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Utter bollocks and exactly the reason you don't win many fans in debates like this. Just because you don't physically tackle and take the ball form someone doesn't mean you haven't done a job on them. And it's absurd to suggest otherwise.

Messi was barely in the game, he made 1 or 2nice passes but most of the time when he had the ball his pass was cut out (because he was trying to thread the ball through a gap that was always going to be closed), it was a wayward shot or he went for safety first because Cole was right up his chuff.

Cole did great against him. Fair play.
 
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