There really wasn't any need for this and I think it's against the rules of the thread. You can praise Messi without Ronaldo's stats.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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I did state that Ronaldo's stats are for context. Keep that in mind.
Should I have chosen, for example, Thomas Muller, then there would be no outcry, however, one would point out that a statistical comparison with Muller would not say anything unique about Messi, since, a number of players usurp Muller in various categories. Information without context, is useless, and to not use the stats of his best competition is really only avoiding for avoidance sake. This is why Sqwuaka Comparison Matrix exists and why when you use those websites you don't look at stats in isolation.
Do those stats read better in isolation, or when presented relative to Ronaldo? The answer is the latter. So, the issue is not that I did this in the right mindset.
The issue, of course, is that you're worried that any statistical comparison, for any reasonable purpose, would result in a score of individuals turning it into a fruitless back and forth, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
False. They both have always had the entire team built around them.
Barcelona always had possession in a different way to other clubs, it’s why i always wanted to see him at a club that carried possession in a different way.
The ball to feet ratio was just unmatchable in comparison to any other club, never mind the way the rest of the league played either.
I personally don’t care who people prefer - it’s all just an opinion, but I always felt Barcelona post Guardiola were able to continue his tactics until the moment xavi, iniesta and Messi left - it leaving the club every time one of the players did.
The ball to feet ratio was just unmatchable in comparison to any other club, never mind the way the rest of the league played either.
I personally don’t care who people prefer - it’s all just an opinion, but I always felt Barcelona post Guardiola were able to continue his tactics until the moment xavi, iniesta and Messi left - it leaving the club every time one of the players did.
This is true but half of the folks on here never watched Madrid regularly and like to think the whole team was feeding him balls.
Ronaldo didn't even turn full striker at Madrid until much later. Messi in reality played in one of the worlds best midfields ever to be seen though he still dominated afterwards but never to that extent.
Kroos-Casemiro-Modric wasn't too shabby either, was it? Anyway, not really the thread for all this. This is Messi's thread.
Big season for Messi ... His last chance to win a WC as well as prove to people he can do it outside Barca (which basically means he needs to win the CL because Ligue 1 should be a given for PSG).
Best case scenario: Ronaldo wins World Cup and is top scorer, PSG lose the league title to some random French team and flop in the CL
Best case scenario: Ronaldo wins World Cup and is top scorer, PSG lose the league title to some random French team and flop in the CL
SAF did not build the team around Ronaldo same as Klopp did not build his team around Salah or Mane.
Can people discussing Messi vs Ronaldo in this (or any) thread piss off?
Seriously.
SAF's United was totally built around Ronaldo. Not when he first came in but definitely after a couple of years. That's why the likes of Rooney had to subjugate their games to serve him and whenever they employed a high press, Ron was the only player who didn't reslly have to do that work so he could concentrate on doing what he does.
Liverpool with Salah and Mane was a totally beast, I'm not even sure why you bring them up.
As usual, wrong. United were built around Ronaldo more than Barcelona were built around Messi and yet Messi has 7 balón dors to Ronaldo's 5, 6 golden boots to Ronaldo's 4, and 8 top scorer awards to Ronaldo's 5.
Ronaldo just isn't going to catch Messi
Because you don't understand football, and only look at the best player in the team and think that team must be built around him.
Funny, isn't it?
The irony of you telling anyone they don't understand football when you're doing the same thing.
There's only one person who doesn't understand football here, and his name is mu4c_20le.
Sure pal, coming from someone who didn't even understand the point.
You were wrong, as everyone has pointed out. Just accept it.
Keep doing everything but re-reading my post and actually responding to the point
Not sure where the old thread is anymore but you're right that's not too shabby but wasn't till 2014 till that duo clicked. No coincidence 2014-17 was Ronaldo's best years in Madrid as well. Still don't think they're Xavi, Busquets, Iniesta level
As usual, wrong. United were built around Ronaldo more than Barcelona were built around Messi and yet Messi has 7 balón dors to Ronaldo's 5, 6 golden boots to Ronaldo's 4, and 8 top scorer awards to Ronaldo's 5.
Ronaldo just isn't going to catch Messi
You could have had a good point and then you say "more". Shame
I'd go so far as to say one has had an entire club built around him (and failed when he hasn't).
Then you'd be wrong as well. If by 'failure' you mean last season, he still got 14 assists to Ron's 3 and won one trophy to Ronaldo's zero. Not his best season, but he just added another trophy that takes him further ahead of his great rival in the total tally.
If you judge things purely on goals, there's always next season, when he will likely score an amount of goals more to your liking, seeing as he hit the post about 10 times this season.
Messi won multiple Ballon D'ors, Golden Shoes, CL top goal scorer award, Pichichis etc. without Neymar, Iniesta, Xavi etc. in poor teams unlike Ronaldo who can't win things outside super teams like SAF's United or Real, the guy couldn't even become a top league goal scorer in the last 7 years more than once as a striker..
Messi does not need other superstars surrounding him to win the top individual awards..
Yeah, I don't think adding the Uber Eats league to your tally pushes you "forward" in the race...
come on now. The only 'poor team' I can think of, is 2019 and 2021, both of which he did not deserve. VVD and Lewa were better respectively. His other wins were when Barca were one of the best teams in the history of the sport.A league title is a league title. I mean Ron went to a team that had won like 7 in a row in Italy and won a couple with them. They all count.
Wait, so no "you were wrong just accept it" ?
You were just trying to support the ringleader of the point (so to speak)
He definitely did deserve it in 2019 and any other opinion is ridiculous. 2021 is more of a debate, but people get Lewa's 2020 and 2021 seasons mixed up in that respect.
Yeah, sure, he did not deserve in your alternative universe by becoming La Liga top goal scorer, top CL goal scorer, winning IFFHS World's best playmaker award, winning La Liga, Copa Del Rey, single-handedly taking that Barca to semis in CL in 2019
all with poor Barca..Yet, the same guy thinks winning the farmers league Bundesliga with superior Bayern (that Bayern has been winning 10 years in a row) as the top goal scorer is enough to win Ballon D'or in Lewa's case in 2021, talk about hypocrisy..
La Liga top goal scorer + La Liga most assists (no.2) + IFFHS World's Best Playmaker (no.2 after Kevin De Bruyne) + Copa Del Rey MVP + Copa America MVP (top goal scorer + most goals) >>>>>>> Bundesliga top goal scorer..
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So you ask others to accept it when they're wrong but you wont
There was talk of VVD being the PL's greatest ever defender that season, and Messi only beat him by 7 points in the voting. So definitely not ridiculous.
I think the most interesting question is, can Ronaldo win these awards or big trophies without a top manager? We know LM can as he hasn't had an elite manager since Pep. Even Enrique, who is obviously very competent, has not won a trophy without Messi in his team.
If they were, then it's because he made them one of the best teams in history.
He definitely deserved both 2019 and 2021 because he was the best player on the planet. Meanwhile, we know that Cristiano didn't deserve 2013 or 2016.
Ronaldo has 1 top scorer award in 7 seasons in English football and 1 top scorer award in 3 seasons in Italy (pipped by Lukaku and iMobile in 2 of those seasons).
He has a combined 5 top scorer awards in all his years of football despite offering nothing more than goals.
It means more than either Seria A title Ronaldo won.
Juventus had won 7 (?) League titles in a row and 4 doubles in a row prior to Ronaldo coming in and immediately weakening the team. Meanwhile, PSG weren't champions prior to the 7 time balón dor winner coming in.
Ok. Now please explain (using logic) why Messi didn't deserve it?