Lionel Messi | PSG Watch

dan1509 said:
The fact they think the Copa win is equivalent to Ronaldo's euro win is astonishing. Actually, I think am mistaken, they actually believe its superior due to the stats you posted :lol:

A tournament that has 10 teams (4 of which are shite), where he plays for the 1st/2nd best team of the tournament in every edition. You essentially start this tournament as a quarter finalist and just need to win 3 knockout matches considering it starts with a group of 5 where 4 go through and one of the 5 teams is Bolivia/Venezuela. Keep in mind he has had 6 attempts (4 in the last 6 years!!) at it. A real underdog story.
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Don't think it is better than Euro, but Portugal were far more jammy than Argentina, and Ronaldo didn't even play in the final. He's been quite underwhelming in NT finals. I'd take the average Messi final performance over the average Ronaldo finals performance. Portugal were as jammy as 2004 Greece. Which is fine, history only remembers the winners.
 
GinobiliTheGOAT said:
Don't think it is better than Euro, but Portugal were far more jammy than Argentina, and Ronaldo didn't even play in the final. He's been quite underwhelming in NT finals. I'd take the average Messi final performance over the average Ronaldo finals performance. Portugal were as jammy as 2004 Greece. Which is fine, history only remembers the winners.
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Messi was average in the copa final. He was injured though.
 
Lionel Messi has become the FIRST player in history who hits 1100 Goals & assists in his career. 769 Goals, 331 Assists in 974 appearances.

90 more assists and 45 goals less than Cristiano Ronaldo in 147 less games.
 
Needham said:
Well my point is that since leaving Barcelona he's got shorter. You don't think this hasn't impacted his game?
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Ben Yedder is 0.1 inch taller than him, that explains the gap between their productivity this season.
 
GinobiliTheGOAT said:
Yes, but I’d still comfortably take Messi’s performance in NT finals over Ronaldo’s. Messi wasn’t amazing but Ronaldo was worse
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Ronaldo barely played because he went off injured. Hard thing to blame him for.
 
GinobiliTheGOAT said:
I’m including nations league final and 2004 euro final as well
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Criticising him for the Nations League final is fine but Euro 2004? He was 19.
Basically analysis of Ronaldo's performances in finals with the National Team is just the Nations League final.
 
dan1509 said:
The fact they think the Copa win is equivalent to Ronaldo's euro win is astonishing. Actually, I think am mistaken, they actually believe its superior due to the stats you posted :lol:

A tournament that has 10 teams (4 of which are shite), where he plays for the 1st/2nd best team of the tournament in every edition. You essentially start this tournament as a quarter finalist and just need to win 3 knockout matches considering it starts with a group of 5 where 4 go through and one of the 5 teams is Bolivia/Venezuela. Keep in mind he has had 6 attempts (4 in the last 6 years!!) at it. A real underdog story.
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Some of you guys sound as if you've never played football yourself.
 
DaGOAT said:
Lionel Messi has become the FIRST player in history who hits 1100 Goals & assists in his career. 769 Goals, 331 Assists in 974 appearances.

90 more assists and 45 goals less than Cristiano Ronaldo in 147 less games.
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How many assists did Pele have?
 
dan1509 said:
The fact they think the Copa win is equivalent to Ronaldo's euro win is astonishing. Actually, I think am mistaken, they actually believe its superior due to the stats you posted :lol:

A tournament that has 10 teams (4 of which are shite), where he plays for the 1st/2nd best team of the tournament in every edition. You essentially start this tournament as a quarter finalist and just need to win 3 knockout matches considering it starts with a group of 5 where 4 go through and one of the 5 teams is Bolivia/Venezuela. Keep in mind he has had 6 attempts (4 in the last 6 years!!) at it. A real underdog story.
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This is Portugal's results on the way to winning the Euro's.

Group Stage (where they finished 3rd and only qualified due to a rule change)

Portugal 1-1 Iceland
Portugal 0-0 Austria
Portugal 3-3 Hungary

Round of 16

Portugal 0-0 Croatia (after 90 minutes) won 1-0 after extra time.

Quarter Final

Portugal 1-1 Poland (Portugal win on penalties).

Semi Final

Portugal 2-0 Wales

Final

Portugal 0-0 France (after 90 minutes) won 1-0 after extra time, without Ronaldo.


Of the 7 teams Portugal played, only Croatia and France were actual good teams. In 7 games, they won 1 game without it going to extra time

Portugal won 1 game in normal time featuring Ronaldo. The first 5 games they struggled even with Ronaldo and relied on a rule change, an extra time winner by his team mate and penalties just to scrape through to the semi final where they played the mighty Wales.

Portugal then won the final, playing 105 minutes without Ronaldo.
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
This is Portugal's results on the way to winning the Euro's.

Group Stage (where they finished 3rd and only qualified due to a rule change)

Portugal 1-1 Iceland
Portugal 0-0 Austria
Portugal 3-3 Hungary

Round of 16

Portugal 0-0 Croatia (after 90 minutes) won 1-0 after extra time.

Quarter Final

Portugal 1-1 Poland (Portugal win on penalties).

Semi Final

Portugal 2-0 Wales

Final

Portugal 0-0 France (after 90 minutes) won 1-0 after extra time, without Ronaldo.


Of the 7 teams Portugal played, only Croatia and France were actual good teams. In 7 games, they won 1 game without it going to extra time

Portugal won 1 game in normal time featuring Ronaldo. The first 5 games they struggled even with Ronaldo and relied on a rule change, an extra time winner by his team mate and penalties just to scrape through to the semi final where they played the mighty Wales.

Portugal then won the final, playing 105 minutes without Ronaldo.
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The old finished third argument. The rule was not changed on the spot to qualify Portugal, it was made clear prior to the tournament. Do you realize that teams would play differently if only the top 2 qualified? This absurd logic of "Portugal would have been eliminated if not for this rule change" is hilarious.

I do not get what you are trying to say with the rest of the results you posted. I can understand claiming penalty shots to not be a "real victory" (I agree with this), but trying to claim extra time isn't? Please explain why an extra time win is not a "real victory"?

Also, saying only Croatia and France were good teams just proves that you are a hater with an agenda. I will leave you with a summary of Portugal's euro and Argentina's Copa:
  • Group Stage: It was a pretty weak group, but still more difficult than a Copa America group, which involves a "bye" to the quarter finals for 4 of the 5 teams not named Bolivia. :lol:
  • Croatia: Topped a group that included Spain and were seen as one of the tournament favorites at the time. Even went on to be world cup finalists in the next competition
  • Poland: 2 wins and a draw against Germany in the group stage. They were a good team in 2016, not sure why you make them out to be Bolivia. Portugal won in penalties so if you want to discredit this win feel free too.
  • Wales: Solid defence, with Bale and Ramsay in fantastic form. Topped a group that included England and then went on to decisively beat a stacked Belgium team.
  • France: pre tournament favorites and the most "stacked team" at the euros WITH home advantage
Argentina's Copa America:
  • Group stage: Pointless matches. You automatically qualify since you have Bolivia in your group. Like I stated in my original post, you start this tournament as a quarter finalist.
  • Ecuador: They went 0W-3D-1L in the group stage, unable to even defeat Venezuela. They have had good teams in the past, but this year was definitely not one of them.
  • Colombia: Definitely better than Ecuador, I found them to be quite a solid team in this tournament. Luis Diaz was playing out of his mind, and they even gave Brazil a relatively close game. Argentina won this in penalty shots, so I guess you would classify this as a "fake" win?
  • Brazil: Great win against a very good team in their stadium. However, like Ronaldo, Messi did nothing in his teams continental cups final.
 
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dan1509 said:
The old finished third argument. The rule was not changed on the spot to qualify Portugal, it was made clear prior to the tournament. Do you realize that teams would play differently if only the top 2 qualified? This absurd logic of "Portugal would have been eliminated if not for this rule change" is hilarious.

I do not get what you are trying to say with the rest of the results you posted. I can understand claiming penalty shots to not be a "real victory" (I agree with this), but trying to claim extra time isn't? Please explain why an extra time win is not a "real victory"?

Also, saying only Croatia and France were good teams just proves that you are a hater with an agenda. I will leave you with a summary of Portugal's euro and Argentina's Copa:
  • Group Stage: It was a pretty weak group, but still more difficult than a Copa America group, which involves a "bye" to the quarter finals for 4 of the 5 teams not named Bolivia. :lol:
  • Croatia: Topped a group that included Spain and were seen as one of the tournament favorites at the time. Even went on to be world cup finalists in the next competition
  • Poland: 2 wins and a draw against Germany in the group stage. They were a good team in 2016, not sure why you make them out to be Bolivia. Portugal won in penalties so if you want to discredit this win feel free too.
  • Wales: Solid defence, with Bale and Ramsay in fantastic form. Topped a group that included England and then went on to decisively beat a stacked Belgium team.
  • France: pre tournament favorites and the most "stacked team" at the euros WITH home advantage
Argentina's Copa America:
  • Group stage: Pointless matches. You automatically qualify since you have Bolivia in your group. Like I stated in my original post, you start this tournament as a quarter finalist.
  • Ecuador: They went 0W-3D-1L in the group stage, unable to even defeat Venezuela. They have had good teams in the past, but this year was definitely not one of them.
  • Colombia: Definitely better than Ecuador, I found them to be quite a solid team in this tournament. Luis Diaz was playing out of his mind, and they even gave Brazil a relatively close game. Argentina won this in penalty shots, so I guess you would classify this as a "fake" win?
  • Brazil: Great win against a very good team in their stadium. However, like Ronaldo, Messi did nothing in his teams continental cups final.
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The problem when a team has the “best” player they abuse the passes to them when they are heavy marked and reason why they don’t do anything, the only player I remember who still good in finals was Maradona.
 
barros said:
The problem when a team has the “best” player they abuse the passes to them when they are heavy marked and reason why they don’t do anything, the only player I remember who still good in finals was Maradona.
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he wasn’t any good in both finals 86 and 90.
 
Pocho said:
he wasn’t any good in both finals 86 and 90.
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Maradona literally gave a great pass to Burruchaga so he could score the 3-2 for Argentina to win the trophy.

He might not have had the best game ever, but that superb assist to score the winner and win the World Cup, worths more than all what Messi did in World Cups.
 
barros said:
The problem when a team has the “best” player they abuse the passes to them when they are heavy marked and reason why they don’t do anything, the only player I remember who still good in finals was Maradona.
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I see what you are saying but tbh it was just a bad day at the office for him against Brazil. Happens to even the best of players. I by no means hate Messi, I think he's fantastic and a top 5 player of all time. It just really irks me how his fanboys have this snobbish attitude towards Ronaldo where they discredit his achievements and act as if he doesn't deserve to be even mentioned in the same sentence as him. Its often extremely hypocritical takes too. For instance, discrediting his euro win because he didn't play the final, but then fully crediting Messi's first champions league win where he did not play a single minute of the quarter, semi and final.

For what its worth, I do actually think Messi is better due to his ability to create something out of nothing, but as Sir Alex stated, Ronaldo is much more adaptable in terms of slotting into any teams tactics, whereas Messi requires specific tactics and teammates to suit his way of playing.
 
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Gehrman said:
Watching the highlights he's still not got his best dribbling ability back despite scoring 5 goals. Anyway it's just Estonia. I don't expect Messi to kill it at the WC at 35.
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Idk who can expect that. The real possibility resides in the ability of argentina to be a real good team instead of a bunch of good attacking players.
 
FrankFoot said:
Maradona literally gave a great pass to Burruchaga so he could score the 3-2 for Argentina to win the trophy.

He might not have had the best game ever, but that superb assist to score the winner and win the World Cup, worths more than all what Messi did in World Cups.
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good pass its true but he was missing in both finals. It was more a mistake from German defenders than a great play by Diego.
 
Absolutely phenomenal stats by both. In a league of their own. This isn't to stimuli some eternal debate. I'm posting this merely to frame some context to Messi's career performance and to particularly focus on what an outstanding achievement his career is when you consider this is all accomplished in something like 10,000 fewer minutes than Ronnie. Regardless, we are winding down and era, unfortunately, and so we ought to enjoy what they've both done, and indeed what they will continue to give so long as they have left.

Ronaldo

Career minutes: 76,176
Goals: 698
Assists: 230
Pens: 128
Mins per goal: 109
MOTM awards: 167

Messi

Career minutes: 66,199 (roughly 111 complete 90 minute games less played)
Goals: 681
Assists: 331
Pens: 84
Mins per goal: 97
MOTM awards: 297
 
I really miss watching them break the game week in week out but I guess in some ways I'll be relived of watching their fan boys quarrel over the most meaningless minute details possible as well .

I doubt whoevers gonna replace them is going to reach the same heights they did while playing in the best teams in the world in the very same league like they did.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Absolutely phenomenal stats by both. In a league of their own. This isn't to stimuli some eternal debate. I'm posting this merely to frame some context to Messi's career performance and to particularly focus on what an outstanding achievement his career is when you consider this is all accomplished in something like 10,000 fewer minutes than Ronnie. Regardless, we are winding down and era, unfortunately, and so we ought to enjoy what they've both done, and indeed what they will continue to give so long as they have left.

Ronaldo

Career minutes: 76,176
Goals: 698
Assists: 230
Pens: 128
Mins per goal: 109
MOTM awards: 167

Messi

Career minutes: 66,199 (roughly 111 complete 90 minute games less played)
Goals: 681
Assists: 331
Pens: 84
Mins per goal: 97
MOTM awards: 297
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Mad isn't it, when you consider how many clubs Ronaldo has done it at.
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Absolutely phenomenal stats by both. In a league of their own. This isn't to stimuli some eternal debate. I'm posting this merely to frame some context to Messi's career performance and to particularly focus on what an outstanding achievement his career is when you consider this is all accomplished in something like 10,000 fewer minutes than Ronnie. Regardless, we are winding down and era, unfortunately, and so we ought to enjoy what they've both done, and indeed what they will continue to give so long as they have left.

Ronaldo

Career minutes: 76,176
Goals: 698
Assists: 230
Pens: 128
Mins per goal: 109
MOTM awards: 167

Messi

Career minutes: 66,199 (roughly 111 complete 90 minute games less played)
Goals: 681
Assists: 331
Pens: 84
Mins per goal: 97
MOTM awards: 297
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Crazy goal stats for Messi especially considering that the guy is not even a striker and seen as one of the greatest playmakers/dribblers/creative players ever.. The guy would still be a legend without scoring much..
 
The holy trinity 68 said:
This is Portugal's results on the way to winning the Euro's.

Group Stage (where they finished 3rd and only qualified due to a rule change)

Portugal 1-1 Iceland
Portugal 0-0 Austria
Portugal 3-3 Hungary

Round of 16

Portugal 0-0 Croatia (after 90 minutes) won 1-0 after extra time.

Quarter Final

Portugal 1-1 Poland (Portugal win on penalties).

Semi Final

Portugal 2-0 Wales

Final

Portugal 0-0 France (after 90 minutes) won 1-0 after extra time, without Ronaldo.


Of the 7 teams Portugal played, only Croatia and France were actual good teams. In 7 games, they won 1 game without it going to extra time

Portugal won 1 game in normal time featuring Ronaldo. The first 5 games they struggled even with Ronaldo and relied on a rule change, an extra time winner by his team mate and penalties just to scrape through to the semi final where they played the mighty Wales.

Portugal then won the final, playing 105 minutes without Ronaldo.
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dan1509 said:
The old finished third argument. The rule was not changed on the spot to qualify Portugal, it was made clear prior to the tournament. Do you realize that teams would play differently if only the top 2 qualified? This absurd logic of "Portugal would have been eliminated if not for this rule change" is hilarious.

I do not get what you are trying to say with the rest of the results you posted. I can understand claiming penalty shots to not be a "real victory" (I agree with this), but trying to claim extra time isn't? Please explain why an extra time win is not a "real victory"?

Also, saying only Croatia and France were good teams just proves that you are a hater with an agenda. I will leave you with a summary of Portugal's euro and Argentina's Copa:
  • Group Stage: It was a pretty weak group, but still more difficult than a Copa America group, which involves a "bye" to the quarter finals for 4 of the 5 teams not named Bolivia. :lol:
  • Croatia: Topped a group that included Spain and were seen as one of the tournament favorites at the time. Even went on to be world cup finalists in the next competition
  • Poland: 2 wins and a draw against Germany in the group stage. They were a good team in 2016, not sure why you make them out to be Bolivia. Portugal won in penalties so if you want to discredit this win feel free too.
  • Wales: Solid defence, with Bale and Ramsay in fantastic form. Topped a group that included England and then went on to decisively beat a stacked Belgium team.
  • France: pre tournament favorites and the most "stacked team" at the euros WITH home advantage
Argentina's Copa America:
  • Group stage: Pointless matches. You automatically qualify since you have Bolivia in your group. Like I stated in my original post, you start this tournament as a quarter finalist.
  • Ecuador: They went 0W-3D-1L in the group stage, unable to even defeat Venezuela. They have had good teams in the past, but this year was definitely not one of them.
  • Colombia: Definitely better than Ecuador, I found them to be quite a solid team in this tournament. Luis Diaz was playing out of his mind, and they even gave Brazil a relatively close game. Argentina won this in penalty shots, so I guess you would classify this as a "fake" win?
  • Brazil: Great win against a very good team in their stadium. However, like Ronaldo, Messi did nothing in his teams continental cups final.
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So you are saying that Portugal and Ronaldo were deliberately crappie in the group stages so that they could finish third and still make it to the quarters?

BTW you are clutching at straws in Cr7"s favour. His individual performances other than vs mighty Hungary were quite mediocre to awful. On the contrary, Messi had a brilliant tournament not only in 2021 but also in 2015, 2017 and 2007 even without winning. Far better than anything Ronaldo has ever produced for Portugal.

And for the argument regarding South American teams, guess which team eliminated Portugal in the last WC?
 
mshnsh said:
So you are saying that Portugal and Ronaldo were deliberately crappie in the group stages so that they could finish third and still make it to the quarters?

BTW you are clutching at straws in Cr7"s favour. His individual performances other than vs mighty Hungary were quite mediocre to awful. On the contrary, Messi had a brilliant tournament not only in 2021 but also in 2015, 2017 and 2007 even without winning. Far better than anything Ronaldo has ever produced for Portugal.

And for the argument regarding South American teams, guess which team eliminated Portugal in the last WC?
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Portugal got eliminated in the group stage by "mighty" USA in WC 2014, by Chile in 2017 Confederations Cup as the last EC winner, and by Uruguay in WC 2018.
 
Red the Bear said:
I really miss watching them break the game week in week out but I guess in some ways I'll be relived of watching their fan boys quarrel over the most meaningless minute details possible as well .

I doubt whoevers gonna replace them is going to reach the same heights they did while playing in the best teams in the world in the very same league like they did.
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Football feels boring without these 2. They both made history all the time. Now we just are just back to the status quo
 
Hopefully can do it in Ligue 1 next season and improve after settling in the last one.

No idea who the manager is though or if he is any good.
 
mu4c_20le said:
One has always had the entire team built around him, the other doesn't.
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Barca wasn't build around Messi until he was the best in the world, same as Ronaldo(and yes the teams were built around him). To suggest otherwise is kind of infantile.
 
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