Not sure what your definition of universal is but in the UK Maradona obviously established himself firmly in their history books, and for people who grew up watching footy in the 80s, I’d say the majority would say Maradona was better. And that was passed onto many people in the generations after. It’s far from a universal belief that Pele was the best.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
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Not sure what your definition of universal is but in the UK Maradona obviously established himself firmly in their history books, and for people who grew up watching footy in the 80s, I’d say the majority would say Maradona was better. And that was passed onto many people in the generations after. It’s far from a universal belief that Pele was the best.
Play makers elevate performances of people around them. Messi doesn’t. The players I mentioned on the post does. And if you believe Messi can match Iniestas play making then I don’t know what to tell you. Messi can match his passing and chances creation sure. But not dictating play .He makes plays. The defitinion is the gotdamn word
It just so happens that he's the most agressive and efficient playmaker of all time, he goes forward 99% of the time unlike anyone on your list, because he can, they cant.
Advanced play makers other than Requelme you have people like Totti. I’ll be happy to get the names of a couple of players that play better with Messi more than anywhere else.
Not sure from where you got the "elevate performances of people around them"= playmaker thingy.
A playmaker is someone who starts a move in attacking phase with a vision to create a goal, and if you think Messi is not that guy, I am not sure how your playmaker definition is.
So you equate playmaker and game-manager? Totti wasn't a game manager, nor was Zidane.
Luis Suarez, Neymar, Iniesta, Dani Alves, Jordi Alba, Pedro, Paulinho. You can't be serious if you believe Messi doesn't make players around him better. The guy tops every chance creation stat since years. Assists, pre-assists, chances created, forward passes, xGBU, key passes, dribbles and so forth. That's such an absurd narrative that I don't know what to say. I mean, Messi scores his goals while not even occupying typical striker habitats so he can play alongside traditional strikers without their goal outputs taking a hit.
Curious stat.
Messi had 16 MOTM performances in 20/21 season. Next nearest was Lewandowski at 8.
Speaking of the number 16. This is also the number of goals he has scored outside the 18 yard box in 2021. His highest in his career.
Messi had 16 MOTM performances in 20/21 season. Next nearest was Lewandowski at 8.
Speaking of the number 16. This is also the number of goals he has scored outside the 18 yard box in 2021. His highest in his career.
fecking hell 16 goals from outside the box in a year. He seriously makes difficult things so fcuking simple, that when he does it, people are like it is normal
Zidane managed many games in his playing days.
I can't even tell if people are just making these things up now.
In his later years but the vast majority of his career wasn't as a game manager and no one would suggest that he wasn't a playmaker.
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Expected goals by United. Obviously. How doesn't everyone know that. Blatant dig at Ronaldo.
Man, I've been saying this for ages. I think a lot of people don't quite grasp how much more difficult it is to maintain your goalscoring rate whilst increasingly playing deeper and deeper in the field. It's just assumed that Messi should match Lewandowski or Ronaldo, goal-for-goal, whilst simulataneously playing near the halfway line and taking on all of the creative burdens and responsiblities that those two don't need to.
By that logic Ronaldo is the best playmaker the champions league has ever seen? Or at least up there? I’m sure even Ronaldo doesn’t think that .
Oh that also makes Modern fullbacks playmakers because a lot of team attacks starts with them. Chance creation and play making aren’t the same thing.
You can google it, very good metric to measure offensive impact outside of goals
Yes. It's almost as if context matters, right?
I can't follow that train of thought. Why should he be?
That's not entirely true. Having a free CAM role as Messi does is incredibly advantegous to your goalscoring and playmaking opportunities. Messi wouldn't have even remotely the same output playing on the wing.
because he created more goals than anyone in the champions league.
Like I've said in this thread once Psg clicks you'd see Messi back in form. He's not washed. Mbappe is crazy good though. Looks destined for number 1.
Try and look up the definition of a playmaker.
He's spent quite a lot of his career on the RW.
Eh, not really. From what I remember only under Rijkaard which was what? 2 years? He only became profilic when Guardiola switched his position and moved him in the middle.
Like the first 4 years of his career...not even all 4 years at that
I dunno what the stats are but his position isnt fixed. I dunno if you remember that Pelé said Messi only has one trick which is to cut inside from the RW and score.
Should i quote Romario?
Should i quote Romario?
Sure
Pelé is a poet - when he keeps his mouth shut
I dunno if there are any opta stats on how many games Messi started on the wing or something. During MSN he was on right again.
Eh, yeah in 2015 he played mostly through the right half space, sometimes moving even wider to the wing. The compromise needed to make it work
It’s a good point. I mean Suarez won the European golden shoe playing with Messi. If you’re a striker and you play in a team with Lewa or Ronaldo, you’d better forget about trying to win the golden boot. It ain’t happening.
Assists or key passes=/=playmaker.
Yes modern fullbacks like TAA, Cancelo and earlier the likes of Baines or Dani Alves in Sevilla are/were playmakers. Because the whole creativity of those teams were in a way dependant on them.
It’s one of the things that makes him remarkable. However Pele had a similar quality, he was not an out and out striker at all, which many people seem to think he was. And as he got older he got further and further away from the goal.
Same with Zico, Puskas, Di Stefano and Cruyff. All sensational players.
Still scored and assisted galore.
Absolutely
I think its a fraught term. A bit like was Giggs the winger a playmaker? High on close control/dribbling, chance creation and assists. Same with Nani.
He gets a pen with Mbappe on a hattrick?
I’ve noticed that happening a lot more these days and I can’t understand it for the life of me.
Pretty sure he’s given away pens himself in the same situation. Mbappe just returning the favour maybe?