People are going to blame teams when they do things like appoint Pirlo as the manager, yes.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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He's a butthurt Juve fan I tried to ignore him. Ronaldo failed at United ? What is this guy smoking. He bailed Ole multiple times and Ole was gonna get sacked earlier if not for him. And he makes us go through CL group. As we can see Juve are doing very well without him right ?
I see many United fans in this forum as well as football pundits thinking that United regressed with him just like when he was at Juve, I guess they are all butthurt as well. See where United finished last season and where they are now with him. United lost 6 games in the entire season last year and they already have 5 losses in 12 games this season with him with Bruno, Greenwood etc. all underperforming not to mention the concerning fact that even the lowest ranked teams in PL are able to dominate United this year unlike last year..
Him scoring against inferior La Liga 13th Villareal, Swiss giants Young Boys, and Atalanta with 5 main players missing seems to have clouded your judgment. It was the same story at Juve..Not a single coach lasted more than a year with him in the team, not even Allegri or Sarri..
A loss to Chelsea this weekend as expected, there will be many questioning his contribution in this forum as usual.. A win against Young Boys with him scoring, then people will start calling him the GOAT, that's been the norm so far..
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His overall career,popularity and fame carried him to that 7th ballon d'or if the rumors are true.
In term of G+A (which his fans loved to use every previous year) he's not even the 2nd or 3rd best player of the year and Lewandowski is pretty much far ahead of anyone.
In term of G+A (which his fans loved to use every previous year) he's not even the 2nd or 3rd best player of the year and Lewandowski is pretty much far ahead of anyone.
Yeah, till June-July it was close between Messi and Lewa but overall this year it's not close.
Lewa should win the award, hopefully he will win it.
Fully agree. It will be a travesty if Messi wins Ballon d'Or this year. Lewandowski is the most obvious and deserving candidate.
Context matters.
G+A in La Liga is no comparable to G+A in Bundesliga.. Tbf, nobody cares about Bundesliga. If Ligue 1 (ranked 5th) is a farmers league, then so is Bundesliga (ranked 4th).
Lewa would struggle with current Barca. Messi is one of the greatest playmakers, dribblers and goalscorers of all time whereas Lewa is one of the greatest strikers ever, but cannot run the game, cannot dribble past players. His creativity, passing skills is not comparable to Messi. What Messi achieved with inferior Barca in a superior league is more impressive than what Lewa did in Bundesliga with superior Bayern, a one-team league that Bayern has been winning 9 years in a row.. If you are playing for Bayern or PSG, you need to win the CL or have an amazing international tournament to have a claim on Ballon D'or, domestic titles/performance alone just does not cut it.
For most press and fans that are aware of both players' achievements, Messi is a clear choice for 2021, that's why he has been the oddsmakers top choice. This is not an award for 2020+2021. Lewa should have been given the one for 2020.
La Liga (2nd most competitive league according to UEFA rankings)>>>Bundesliga (4th most competitive league)
Copa MVP + La Liga best forward + Copa Del Rey MVP >>> Bundesliga best forward with Bayern in a 1-team league
La Liga top scorer + Copa top scorer + Copa most assists >>> Bundesliga top scorer
International Player of the Tournament: Messi (1) >>> Lewa (0)
MOTM: Messi (27) >>> Lewa (13)
I am not even comparing their playmaking stats like chances created, key passes, no of successful dribbles etc..as there is nothing to compare..
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This point of Messi’s career doesn’t really matter if you ask me. It’s like judging George Best at what he did in the New York Cosmos.
Messi has already proven to be the most consistent ridiculously talented player of all time for years. He dragged that Barcelona team along for years as easily the best player on the planet.
He’s free to not care so much now he’s done it all and who can blame him. The fire doesn’t last forever. Played so much football it’s only natural.
If The Balón D'or were awarded based on G+A, Messi would have had 9 to Ronaldo's 2.
Since 2009, if the Balón D'or were based on G+A:
2009: Messi (56)
2010: Messi (58)
2011: Messi (77)
2012: Messi (104)
2013: Messi (76)
2014: Ronaldo (68)
2015: Messi (88)
2016: Suarez (81)
2017: Messi (72)
2018: Messi (63)
2019: Messi (71)
2020: Lewandowski (65)
Surely you're not attributing that to Ronaldo. Do you even watch our games? See the goals we concede and the manner we concede them in?
2012 it is 113 i think(or we are excluding NT stats)
I'm not actually sure. It's from a graphic that is making its way around the internet. Might also be stats for the season rather than for the calender year because - like you - I can't imagine that Messi's numbers aren't higher than 110 for that season. He had 91 goals alone and seemed to be creating a goal every week.
2021 Messi has less G+A than all of Benzema,Mbappe and Kane
And he's been worse than the first two in big games. They've got goals vs Spain,Belgium,Portugal,Barca,Atletico,Chelsea and Spain Belgium,Barca,Bayern,City respectively
Lewandowski sits alone at the very top as far as numbers goes. Should a Copa America that's been held for the 4th time in 6 years have such an impact on the votes? When Messi was terrible in the final against Brazil?
And he's been worse than the first two in big games. They've got goals vs Spain,Belgium,Portugal,Barca,Atletico,Chelsea and Spain Belgium,Barca,Bayern,City respectively
Lewandowski sits alone at the very top as far as numbers goes. Should a Copa America that's been held for the 4th time in 6 years have such an impact on the votes? When Messi was terrible in the final against Brazil?
It's the Messi thread you twerp.
You know there's more to football than just the last two contacts before the ball passes the line? And you know even those last two contacts can vary in importance greatly?
Yeah we know. Nobody actually wants to automatically give it to the person with most Goals and Assists.
Damn Suarez in 2016. Messi reaching 70+ stats in 6 years. Madness.
Just got a hat-trick of assists
Needed a red card before PSG woke up, but mental that despite how so many think they’ve been poor and that Poch hasn’t a clue, they are on course to hit 101 points, a record by a fair distance for PSG.
He is recovering. He'll be Fine. Three assists and sparks of his magic.
So the lion is waking up from his rather lengthy sleep.
To be fair he had a pretty terrible game tonight for at least 50mn, one of the worst i've seen from him, but he showed he still had some tricks left.
3 assists though, his pass to Di Maria was great.
If he continues like this, he will prove a valuable player for them.
If he continues like this, he will prove a valuable player for them.
I still laugh when I see this. 104, insanity.
Inevitable, really. A couple of injuries in 3 months hampering match fitness and sharpness. But man, that period between December last year until the end of the Copa America. We've already forgotten that 7 of the last 11 months he was picking up MOTM performances left, right and centre. I mean, he even scored four, assisted five in five games in the Copa America to win the thing.
It's just what he does. His body changes with age and he becomes technically better at some other facet of the game to maintain his standards.
While I agree Messi could be back to his normal (but aging self) in the next couple of weeks, he was, even tonight, terrible technically. He ends up with 3 assists and it's great but god was his game terrible apart from that. His first half was one of the worst 45mn of football i've seen from him.
The three upfront were horrid in different ways, Mbappe missed like 4 goals, Neymar turned over the ball too many times and Messi wasn't accurate at all with his passes, very strange, but I liked the team as a whole and Ramos is a major improvement, they will be fine.
He was poor yesterday despite the assists. PSG was lucky for that red card. They were looking lethargic before it against the worst team in the league.
GOAT.
He was terrible…yet he provided the assists for all the goals
That’s a pretty decent way to be terrible don’t you think?
I think that is nonsense to be honest. If he's playing shit, he's playing shit, regardless if he gets on the score sheet in one way or another. I always preferred Messi over Ronaldo because of the things he provided outside of his scorers. Would be pretty hypocritical to "criticize" that in case of Ronaldo and ignore it in case of Messi.
I've also seen pretty bad displays by Messi in 2021/22 so far. But it's not too long ago that he had a fantastic Copa and he was injured in the meantime. So I'm optimistic we see that version of him again. But if he has a shit game scorers aside, he has a shit game scorers aside.
It’s kind of the same argument everyone discounts Ronaldo for. He ‘just’ scores goals. Truth is Messi/Ronaldo haven’t been anywhere near where they used to be (understandably given their ages) but some fans have a hard time accepting that. They are both still top players (Ronaldo almost singlehandedly saved us from the EL this season for example) but I find it hard to imagine if we're being unbiased either would get into anyone’s best world XI anymore.
I don’t think it’s nonsense
The best players, the greatest players, will often be able to provide something to the game nonetheless. Not always but certainly more often than the “good” players.
Same for Ronaldo, he’s hardly lit the premier league up performance wise….but he’s still piping up with the goals that make the difference.
They aren’t the same players the once we’re of course, they are both 34 and 37 respectively, but they still provide numbers most players want to achieve in a season.
See, I think @tomaldinho1 summarized it quite correctly with this sentence:
"assisting three goals is a pretty decent way to be terrible" is pretty much the same thing many people brought up in the Messi vs. Ronaldo discussion. I hated this argument because football is more than what happens in the last two contacts before the ball passes the line. Players shouldn't maximize these statistics, they should try to perform as well as they can and not tamper over a bad performance with goals and assists.
Thing is, if Messi for instance had three good plays over the whole game, it's not enough "density" of good actions over 90 minutes, even if they led to goals. At least not by his standards that is
See, I think @tomaldinho1 summarized it quite correctly with this sentence:
"assisting three goals is a pretty decent way to be terrible" is pretty much the same thing many people brought up in the Messi vs. Ronaldo discussion. I hated this argument because football is more than what happens in the last two contacts before the ball passes the line. Players shouldn't maximize these statistics, they should try to perform as well as they can and not tamper over a bad performance with goals and assists.
Thing is, if Messi for instance had three good plays over the whole game, it's not enough "density" of good actions over 90 minutes, even if they led to goals. At least not by his standards that is
Just so that you know
I’m not in either Messi or Ronaldo camp
I’m just in the jaw on the floor camp with both of them. They were obviously not born on Earth, but Both have declined over the years performance wise, but they were so far up in the stratosphere at their peak, their decline still leaves them both in the “top footballers on the planet right now” category alongside your Lewandowski’s and Salah’s.
On a serious note, I think it gives him a better claim in the all time argument against Maradona. But I'm not entirely convinced he's necessarily better than Diego was.
It's still 1a: Maradona and 1b: Messi, for me as of now. Then the Pele's and Cryuffs rounding up the mount Rushmore.
However, it has been spectacular.
7 balón d'ors (Next most: 5)
6 Golden Boots (Next most: 4)
8 domestic league top scorer awards
Highest scoring peak ever with 91 goals (next most: 85)
Most assists in recorded football history
I don't follow Argentina or know anyone - don't they value Maradona more than Messi too? Maybe I'm wrong but I remember that somewhere.
They do. Maradona is an icon. Messi is popular but most of my Argentinian friends easily pick Diego. He's irreplaceable. Whether that makes him better is another matter. I think he might still be.
I take Messi over Diego, he is Maradona everygame, Maradona just wasn't his self everytime.
Maradona had someting in spades which eludes Messi completely: Charisma