So it's finally ok to say Messi's been shocking for PSG so far? He just doesn't care, I think.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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Mixed bag imo. But definitely dissapointing.
Will he win the Ballon d'Or? Are Salah/Lewandowski/Haaland maybe better shouts now that he has quite a poor season after the summer?
The voting has already been done around a month ago, no one could have foreseen him being so poor in the new season, so he probably wouldn’t get affected there.
Cheers, that's quite bizarre actually.
Moreover, if one is being objective, there is no need for numbers to see who is lazier than who. It's not even close. I have no idea if it's because of stamina or simple motivation but it's defo not a good look on him.
This causes the other CMs to overcompensate for him and they end up getting injured like Herrera last night
Of course not. A 24 year old footballer is running more than a 34 year old one. But lets not pretend he was running 15km a game a decade ago. He was always a bit lazy, but nowadays much more, which is normal.
Both him and the other two up front basically do zero pressing and it’s so easy to play pass them. All 3 great with the ball and in attack but I feel that in modern football you need to contribute more than that. Ok with one non-pressing forward but 3?
I dont understand how Messi can be so unwilling to run in a big game. You dont need a coach to tell you that if you are the best player in history. Either he's still carrying an injury, his legs are finally shot or he just stopped caring.
Yes. Not going to work.
He never ran much and was always a player to burst to life in the right moments. The problem is if you pair that with Neymar and Mbappe who play the same way these days. You can't have three players like that to carry around.
It's a bit surreal to watch. One might think they see themselves that this won't work, especially when in contrast to City's collective work ethic and in Messi's case having played under Guardiola as well.
People age at different rates and Messi does not look close to Ronaldo in his physique despite being younger - he never did - but its hardly surprising if at 34 he is a shadow if his former self - it happens to a lot of players at that age
Man City as a team ran 5-6km more than PSG with only 1 sub.
He still comes alive when he has the ball, his passing last night was excellent. But without the ball he barely moves, even when his team has possession, the whole team move forward in transition whilst he's often seen walking, and he ends up being not to far away from his own centre backs. A lot of the time it was Herrera where you'd expect Messi to be.
That's disgraceful.
I have watched every PSG games with him
I'm not shocked that he walk all the time and does not make any defensive effort. It's an issue but it's not surprising
But the lack of speed on the counter is the real shocker for me.
I hope he's just out of shape. If that's his best level now, I'd rather have Di Maria starting over him.
I'm not shocked that he walk all the time and does not make any defensive effort. It's an issue but it's not surprising
But the lack of speed on the counter is the real shocker for me.
I hope he's just out of shape. If that's his best level now, I'd rather have Di Maria starting over him.
It's the same way with Ronaldo. You don't put them in your team and ask them to do dirty works. The team mates need to compensate for them. But the positives you'll get by covering for them are far greater. In the case of PSG I think their forwards are worse when it comes into workrate compared to us. I have never in my entire life seen Neymar trackback against the opposing forward. Mbappe, sometimes, but apparently he's not doing it now?
Has been a liability in these games for years. Do people think it's a coincidence that Barcelona would routinely get decimated away from home against better sides?
You can't afford to carry someone who does so little. There's not even a comparison to Ronaldo in this regard because Ronaldo works hard when his team is in possession. Messi only works when he is in possession.
Just an embarrassing display last night. I actually feel bad for Neymar getting lumped in with him because he works far harder.
You can't afford to carry someone who does so little. There's not even a comparison to Ronaldo in this regard because Ronaldo works hard when his team is in possession. Messi only works when he is in possession.
Just an embarrassing display last night. I actually feel bad for Neymar getting lumped in with him because he works far harder.
Not sure why people are surprised with his lack of defensive effort, it has been an issue for years now. I think the main problem is his lack of movement when PSG are in possesion, he simply doesn't make himself available anymore. He obviously declined and while he is still more than capable of producing magic moments, he disrupts the team formation. With him on the pitch is almost impossible to implement a strict style of play, he is too used to ''give me the ball and I'll take care of the rest'' strategy.
I'm sure he'll improve in the coming months, but Poch has some serious problem on his hands. I wouldn't write PSG off though, they still have enough quallity to go all the way.
I'm sure he'll improve in the coming months, but Poch has some serious problem on his hands. I wouldn't write PSG off though, they still have enough quallity to go all the way.
Teams can cater to one lazy forward but having 3 of them is just too much
Maybe.. Just not in the Ronaldo vs Messi thread.
I don’t understand why all the sudden criticism on Messi (or Ronaldo) on their lack of pressing or being lazy on the pitch. When a player has same talent as they do, and scoring that many goals and being so dominating, surely you wouldn’t want to waste their energy on doing those dirty works?
Its also about having the movement to make yourself available and making runs forward. Messi barely seemed arsed during a counter.
Because he is nowhere near good with the ball at the moment to compensate for that?
I think being lumped with Ronaldo is doing Messi a disservice. He's 34 and no where near the physical specimen Ronaldo is. It's not implausible that he's simply declined physically. It's about the right age for him to be hanging his boots up or dropping a level.
Sure, but you still wouldn’t want him to do those donkey works for your team though? Rather would want him to take his time, adapt to the new system, get back to his form and play his game. Especially when he was in Ballon D’or form not long ago ( during first half of the year and during summer Copa)
I think he's put in similar performances all throughout his 30's, he ghosts around until the ball is at his feet, but manages to produce something near enough every time once he's on it. If PSG want to get the best out of him, they'll have to come to terms with him being the focal point for everything they do offensively and work to find him as much as possible.
No idea how they compensate for his lack of energy with Mbappe and Neymar also in the team though. Maybe Messi as a #10 in a 3-5-2 would give them the pitch coverage while also giving Messi the freedom to roam.
No idea how they compensate for his lack of energy with Mbappe and Neymar also in the team though. Maybe Messi as a #10 in a 3-5-2 would give them the pitch coverage while also giving Messi the freedom to roam.
Not a top 5 player in the world anymore. Arguably not even top 10.
And despite being "finished", he is winning his 7th Ballon Dor.
Not bad.
Not bad.
Says a lot on how much of a popularity context the BdO is.
Watched the full match yesterday, and he was awful. Yes, the counter setup of the team might not have suited him, but he didn’t seem interested at all. Shadow of the player from a couple of years ago.
I wouldn’t be surprised if PSG go for Ronaldo when he’s 40. They just seem to care about big names than actually winning as a team. Been a poor transfer for them, looks like he’s lost his spark. And Ramos too
I wouldn’t be surprised if PSG go for Ronaldo when he’s 40. They just seem to care about big names than actually winning as a team. Been a poor transfer for them, looks like he’s lost his spark. And Ramos too
It's important to understand that the game has changed, even from just 5 years ago. Tactics and systems have severely off set sheer talents and now teams need to rely a lot more on defined and dominant system to be relevant at the very top. Just having top, talented players isn't enough anymore and teams can't afford to cater to their star's lack of efforts let alone several stars lack of effort in a team.
Heck just a few years ago teams could afford to ignore some of their attackers not putting in a shift but things have changed so much in just a few years that everyone has to work hard and put in a shift in order to stay competitive at the very top.
Because they're getting lazier and lazier and their general play isn't quite as good to make up for it. This is what happens when great players are 34 and 36. You can't compare Messi at 34 and Ronaldo at 36 to Messi at 24 and Ronaldo at 26 and apply the same analysis. They're different players.
The peak was so high that even in decline, they're still very good players, but they're not untouchable anymore. Time is moving on, and it's only going to get worse in the next year or two.
His legacy is RUINED!
GOAT? More like haggis!
GOAT? More like haggis!
Honestly i think PSG would benefit much more if they adopted the Barca's playstyle of the last few years which was basically "give the ball to Messi at all times".
Watching yesterday's game (just the highlights to be perfectly honest) i saw a pretty good Messi and he was basically involved in all of Paris attacks, doing mostly everything right as he usually does. Saw some opportunities where they could have give him the ball and instead they went for Neymar/Mbappe which granted are great players but not at the level of Messi, even old Messi.
So im guessing his criticism comes from his defensive duties which he has never been know for anyway. Id say they should seriously try to focus their entire offense on Messi and let him make the decision of giving it to Neymar/Mbappe when he feels its right. Sounds silly but i really believe so.
On top of that, an engaged Messi is always better than a Messi that gets the ball every 10 minutes. If his mind is 100% on the game, he performs much better than if he feels hes being overlooked. Dani Alves said it best just a few years ago, something along the lines of "i had to pass to Messi even when it wasnt comfortable because i knew if he didnt get the ball often his mind would start drifting away from the game" or something like that.
Watching yesterday's game (just the highlights to be perfectly honest) i saw a pretty good Messi and he was basically involved in all of Paris attacks, doing mostly everything right as he usually does. Saw some opportunities where they could have give him the ball and instead they went for Neymar/Mbappe which granted are great players but not at the level of Messi, even old Messi.
So im guessing his criticism comes from his defensive duties which he has never been know for anyway. Id say they should seriously try to focus their entire offense on Messi and let him make the decision of giving it to Neymar/Mbappe when he feels its right. Sounds silly but i really believe so.
On top of that, an engaged Messi is always better than a Messi that gets the ball every 10 minutes. If his mind is 100% on the game, he performs much better than if he feels hes being overlooked. Dani Alves said it best just a few years ago, something along the lines of "i had to pass to Messi even when it wasnt comfortable because i knew if he didnt get the ball often his mind would start drifting away from the game" or something like that.
Ronaldo must be loving it. His biggest difference with Messi is his adaptation and probably, it's a good time to appreciate the former.
His team is in shambles too though and he may not even be playing CL football next year depending on how the season goes.
Pot calling the kettle there mate.
I don't share your opinion.
Messis workrate was impressive in his early days. He was all over the place constantly running and looking to get the ball or a free space. My earlier post was focused on his total lack of participation in PSG:s defensive play. But as some other posters have mentioned Messi has even bigger problems creating space for himself and others in the attacking play. His lack off movement is absolutely shocking.
I have probably seen 90% of the games he has ever played and this transition started around 4-5 years ago. Still he has made 100 assists in 139 games League games the last 5 seasons (on top of 125 goals) which is 8 more assists than Gerrard did in PL during his whole career and as many as Lampard ever did. But still it has been annoying to watch him since he could have done so much more (especially for his temmates) and it has been sad to see that he somewhat doesn't care as much anymore.
That being said. His performances in PSG is something completely different. He runs even less without the ball and when he has the ball he cannot use his speed to get away from players he normally would leave in the dust. He is either not motivated or are not fully fit since I don't think age can be the only issue since he was really good with the ball in Copa America and dominated La Liga in the spring (which is why he probably wins Ballon d'or.).
And as Amar posted. Messi can't get away with that kind of workrate with less than being absolutely brilliant when he gets the ball.
Neymar/Mbappé is a different cup of tea. Neymar has averaged runs of 10.52 km/match and I think that both he and Mbappé make a lot of runs to make themselves playable.
Yeah but atleast one can still call himself world class at 34… I mean he can do at nearly 37 while the other looks dog shit in a farmers league