Lionel Messi | PSG Watch

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I think you've got it the wrong way around.

That only PSG have given in to his demands should be seen as a positive.

There's at least a little bit of good sense left in football.

In what way is it positive that only one team can afford the best player? You’re inadvertently making a case for PSG here.

I’m saying it’s a crying shame that one club is financially stronger than all others.

You’re saying ‘It’s great that there’s only one’.

Mad.

 

[DutchCruijff]

You bolded the wrong part: "Bartomeu was widely seen as a soft touch by the club’s Catalan core of homegrown players who all got bumper pay rises during his term, and by agents of newer arrivals such as Ousmane Dembele, Griezmann and Coutinho" this is the crux. Messi, the outlier in the sport being used as barometer by others would get laughed out of town, just as in other sports where there are earners in different stratospheres on the same teams.

The problem here is using the greatest outlier there is to establish a mean. He's an island separated from the norms and structure what you're saying is applicable to.

You used Griezmann and his World Cup exploits as a comparative to Messi, arguably the greatest player of all time and a god at Barcelona. You do realise how absurd that is? On any scale, Messi is the sun and others are components in the remainder left to sort out what they can amongst themselves. Bartomeu playing Santa with others in the team has everything to do with Barcelona's predicament. A stronger president would have incentivised the lesser lights with the carrot of perform anything like Messi and watch your contract rise exponentially.

Like I said, there's a fundamental lack of financial knowledge and what it means to run a sustainable model on display.

Firstly, I've repeatedly mentioned Barca's financial incompetency, that too when it came to Messi's contract too which was, again. utterly obscene. There's no need to discuss it further because it's an established point. Just as giving Griezmann such a bumper contract was soft from Bartomeu, so too was it soft when Messi received such an obscene contract.

Secondly, what you're struggling to understand, despite it being in bold font, is that Messi's contract was used as a extortionate benchmark by other agencies resulting in an unsustainable model. You've completely ignored it. A literal source from Barcelona (or someone involved in the intricacy of their contracts) has said -

(A) "A big problem for Barca, and huge consideration for all the players and agents involved, is that Messi’s sky-high salary set the top of the scale at the club."

AND

(B) “The other players’ salaries are high because Messi’s salary was high,” says a source."

You're bizarrely coming out with these quotes of "Oh, he's not normal so it doesn't matter". No, that's not how it works, that's not how finances work, not how financial models work and certainly not how contract negotiations work.

Want proof? Look at Coutinho's contract. Look at Griezmann's contract.

Look at how every single club with any financial sense has a sound wage structure in place.

Look at how Messi takes a 50% reduction and his contract is so obscene that he STILL can't find himself being registered hence Laporta cuts loose.

Look at the quotes directly above you with someone with ACTUAL knowledge of the contracts saying the exact same thing.

 

[Guy Incognito]

BT Sport must be loving have the french league rights in the UK!

Champions League too and that is the one that PSG need to win.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Officially official



That was fast as hell

They should have just got the guy that did the original Bowling alley shot rather than that cheap sh1te.

Reference;

 

[gorky_utd]

All I want to see is PSG thrash Barca in UCL with a Messi hattrick.

 

[DutchCruijff]

The point is that it's a subjective and individualized decision from the owners. There is no actual wage structure, two similar players won't necessarily have the same wage, their contracts won't be structured the same way, contracts are highly individualized in sport, the amount that a player can earn isn't set beforehand. An owner can give himself a limit but he can break it whenever he wants and doesn't have to justify it, no employee can actually turn around and claim that based on an unexistant wage structure he should earn a particular amount.

What happened in the 90s with the PLC is that they wanted to maximize their own dividends which by the way wasn't a regular thing since most clubs aren't businesses and not meant to remunerate a board. So the PLC made up a completely bogus wage structure narrative which was by the way abandoned by the Glazers quickly after the complete purchase.

It's most often not the owners themselves and it's certainly not highly individualised in clubs with sustainable models and that aren't financially incompetent. There is most definitely a framework for one's player expenses, this is what is broadly termed as the "wage structure", so that expenses do not spiral out of control and to provide a stronger hand to the club in contract negotiations.

An employee - or his representatives, see agents - can turn around and demand a wage hike/parity with other employees if they feel necessary or they're not remunerated adequately for their quality/output. If they don't get it, could cause morale issues, players leaving on free, players not opting to join the club etc.

Ergo Messi's contract being a benchmark, as literally noted by a Barca source, being a point of contention where Griezmann's representatives literally turned around he should earn a particular amount based on Messi's contract. I'll repeat it again -

(A) "A big problem for Barca, and huge consideration for all the players and agents involved, is that Messi’s sky-high salary set the top of the scale at the club."

AND

(B) “The other players’ salaries are high because Messi’s salary was high,” says a source."


Regardless of the financial implications, there was a wage structure in place. Whether it was to maximise their own dividends, to keep a strict regimen in place, to ensure the manager isn't overshadowed, to ensure costs don't spiral etc etc the framework of the wage structure was adhered to.

Abandoned by the Glazers? No, this is wrong. I'd point you to United signing Veron in 2001 and Ferdinand in 2002, making the latter one of the highest paid defenders in the world, and I'd point you to Keane's contract agreement in 1999 or 2002 or Beckham's in 2003, reported £50K, 90K and £100K respectively. The wage structure was being adjusted when signing such contracts and it was PRIOR to the Glazers.

We'll leave it here, I really can't say much more when a literal quote from a source within the club (or knowing the intricacies of Barca's contracts and familiar with their dealings) has said the same thing as I have said.

 

[Ecstatic]

Messi Live here *** In French/English/Spanish - sorry ***

 

[Fortitude]

Like I said, there's a fundamental lack of financial knowledge and what it means to run a sustainable model on display.

Firstly, I've repeatedly mentioned Barca's financial incompetency, that too when it came to Messi's contract too which was, again. utterly obscene. There's no need to discuss it further because it's an established point. Just as giving Griezmann such a bumper contract was soft from Bartomeu, so too was it soft when Messi received such an obscene contract.

Secondly, what you're struggling to understand, despite it being in bold font, is that Messi's contract was used as a extortionate benchmark by other agencies resulting in an unsustainable model. You've completely ignored it. A literal source from Barcelona (or someone involved in the intricacy of their contracts) has said -

(A) "A big problem for Barca, and huge consideration for all the players and agents involved, is that Messi’s sky-high salary set the top of the scale at the club."

AND

(B) “The other players’ salaries are high because Messi’s salary was high,” says a source."

You're bizarrely coming out with these quotes of "Oh, he's not normal so it doesn't matter". No, that's not how it works, that's not how finances work, not how financial models work and certainly not how contract negotiations work.

Want proof? Look at Coutinho's contract. Look at Griezmann's contract.

Look at how every single club with any financial sense has a sound wage structure in place.

Look at how Messi takes a 50% reduction and his contract is so obscene that he STILL can't find himself being registered hence Laporta cuts loose.

Look at the quotes directly above you with someone with ACTUAL knowledge of the contracts saying the exact same thing.

I'm not going to go back and forth on this one. Have at it.

 

[Marwood]

In what way is it positive that only one team can afford the best player? You’re inadvertently making a case for PSG here.

I’m saying it’s a crying shame that one club is financially stronger than all others.

You’re saying ‘It’s great that there’s only one’.

Mad.

You said football is broken because only one club can afford Messi. So what do you want to happen so other clubs can afford him?

If you want the football industry to improve you don't want more PSG's do you? You don't want more clubs owned by states.

The only reason they can afford his ridiculous wage is exactly because they're owmed by Qatar. The reason almost everybody else can't is because they're bound by certain economic rules.

But you want more more clubs like PSG(state owned) to compete with PSG?

That's just making the football world even worse.

 

[Ecstatic]

Like I said, there's a fundamental lack of financial knowledge and what it means to run a sustainable model on display.

Firstly, I've repeatedly mentioned Barca's financial incompetency, that too when it came to Messi's contract too which was, again. utterly obscene. There's no need to discuss it further because it's an established point. Just as giving Griezmann such a bumper contract was soft from Bartomeu, so too was it soft when Messi received such an obscene contract.

Secondly, what you're struggling to understand, despite it being in bold font, is that Messi's contract was used as a extortionate benchmark by other agencies resulting in an unsustainable model. You've completely ignored it. A literal source from Barcelona (or someone involved in the intricacy of their contracts) has said -

(A) "A big problem for Barca, and huge consideration for all the players and agents involved, is that Messi’s sky-high salary set the top of the scale at the club."

AND

(B) “The other players’ salaries are high because Messi’s salary was high,” says a source."

You're bizarrely coming out with these quotes of "Oh, he's not normal so it doesn't matter". No, that's not how it works, that's not how finances work, not how financial models work and certainly not how contract negotiations work.

Want proof? Look at Coutinho's contract. Look at Griezmann's contract.

Look at how every single club with any financial sense has a sound wage structure in place.

Look at how Messi takes a 50% reduction and his contract is so obscene that he STILL can't find himself being registered hence Laporta cuts loose.

Look at the quotes directly above you with someone with ACTUAL knowledge of the contracts saying the exact same thing.

If you really want to put the blame on somebody, best to say PSG/City that greatly contributed to this crazy inflation.

The common sense is to allocate crazy wages to crazy players, good salaries to good players, and decent wages to second-class players...

So the only responsible is the top management

 

[JPRouve]

It's most often not the owners themselves and it's certainly not highly individualised in clubs with sustainable models and that aren't financially incompetent. There is most definitely a framework for one's player expenses, this is what is broadly termed as the "wage structure", so that expenses do not spiral out of control and to provide a stronger hand to the club in contract negotiations.

An employee - or his representatives, see agents - can turn around and demand a wage hike/parity with other employees if they feel necessary or they're not remunerated adequately for their quality/output. If they don't get it, could cause morale issues, players leaving on free, players not opting to join the club etc.

Ergo Messi's contract being a benchmark, as literally noted by a Barca source, being a point of contention where Griezmann's representatives literally turned around he should earn a particular amount based on Messi's contract. I'll repeat it again -

(A) "A big problem for Barca, and huge consideration for all the players and agents involved, is that Messi’s sky-high salary set the top of the scale at the club."

AND

(B) “The other players’ salaries are high because Messi’s salary was high,” says a source."


Regardless of the financial implications, there was a wage structure in place. Whether it was to maximise their own dividends, to keep a strict regimen in place, to ensure the manager isn't overshadowed, to ensure costs don't spiral etc etc the framework of the wage structure was adhered to.

Abandoned by the Glazers? No, this is wrong. I'd point you to United signing Veron in 2001 and Ferdinand in 2002, making the latter one of the highest paid defenders in the world, and I'd point you to Keane's contract agreement in 1999 or 2002 or Beckham's in 2003, reported £50K, 90K and £100K respectively. The wage structure was being adjusted when signing such contracts and it was PRIOR to the Glazers.

We'll leave it here, I really can't say much more when a literal quote from a source within the club (or knowing the intricacies of Barca's contracts and familiar with their dealings) has said the same thing as I have said.

Your quote is from someone trying to justify silly contracts offered by Barcelona. Just to show how dumb that quote is, if your point was actually true, the gap between players wages within Barcelona wouldn't be that big that's what a wage structure will do for players of similar level. For example you wouldn't have Dembélé earning signficantly more than Coutinho even though the latter joined the club a few months later and being a more established player. You wouldn't have Alba earning less than Dembélé or Sergi Roberto. You wouldn't have Arthur earning 4 times less than De Jong when he joined Barcelona even though both deals happened after Messi's contracts.

It's not even debateable that wage structures aren't actually a thing, it's a nice idea that may have fooled you but you just have to look at Barcelona's contract after Messi extension in 2017 to realize that the quote is completely bogus, there is no logic in the contracts given by Barcelona, there is no structure or discipline.

 

[NasirTimothy]

I tend to think clubs like chelsea / PSG / City are plastic but after 20 years people only remember who won and how many times so its good for their fans.

Sometimes i wish we have owners like that but if i use my senses then I feel better we win something with our current model than with sugar daddy money as winning with respect is what matters most,
I dont think many give credit to teams like city/chelsea/psg even they win big.

This is the point though. 50 or 60 years from now, most people aren’t going to remember or care how a club got the money to buy the players they needed to win or the particular circumstances that facilitated winning. Just like very few care that when Real Madrid won the European Cup in 1957, the trophy was actually handed over to the captain Miguel Munoz by Generalissimo Franco. Or that when Argentina won the World Cup in 1978 they were in the midst of a military junta and the officers under their command were literally torturing and murdering thousands of dissidents. All people will care about is who won what and when. It’s sad but that’s the way it is.

 

[Marwood]

This is the point though. 50 or 60 years from now, most people aren’t going to remember or care how a club got the money to buy the players they needed to win or the particular circumstances that facilitated winning. Just like very few care that when Real Madrid won the European Cup in 1957, the trophy was actually handed over to the captain Miguel Munoz by Generalissimo Franco. Or that when Argentina won the World Cup in 1978 they were in the midst of a military junta and the officers under their command were literally torturing and murdering thousands of dissidents. All people will care about is who won what and when. It’s sad but that’s the way it is.

That's already happened. No mention of it from any of the major broadcasters.

 

[gibers]

Barca had Neymar Suarez and Messi in their primes and they won 1 cl. Ridiculous that people are thinking this is an automatic CL win for PSG.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

You said football is broken because only one club can afford Messi. So what do you want to happen so other clubs can afford him?

If you want the football industry to improve you don't want more PSG's do you? You don't want more clubs owned by states.

The only reason they can afford his ridiculous wage is exactly because they're owmed by Qatar. The reason almost everybody else can't is because they're bound by certain economic rules.

But you want more more clubs like PSG(state owned) to compete with PSG?

That's just making the football world even worse.

Think about it…… I don’t want more, I don’t want any like PSG. The answer was right in front of you.

It’s a crying shame that the sport is so lopsided.

 

[DutchCruijff]

Your quote is from someone trying to justify silly contracts offered by Barcelona. Just to show how dumb that quote is, if your point was actually true, the gap between players wages within Barcelona wouldn't be that big that's what a wage structure will do for players of similar level yet. For example you wouldn't have Dembélé earning signficantly more than Coutinho even though the latter joined the club a few months later and being a more established player. You wouldn't have Alba earning less than Dembélé or Sergi Roberto. You wouldn't have Arthur earning 4 times less than De Jong when he joined Barcelona even though both deals happened after Messi's contracts.

It's not even debateable that wage structures aren't actually a thing, it's a nice idea that may have fooled you but you just have to look at Barcelona's contract after Messi extension in 2017 to realize that the quote is completely bogus, there is no logic in the contracts given by Barcelona, there is no structure or discipline.

The quote is someone with actual knowledge of Barcelona's contract negotiations. That's something that you don't possess. Someone who actually knows what was going on with Barcelona's contract demands and what benchmarks were being provided. All you can provide is incorrect contract figures trying to prove a futile point and irrelevant lines like "the quote is dumb".

Dembele earns significantly more than Coutinho? Where's your source for this?

Closest thing to verifiable info was the Football Leaks which had Dembele at -

"The 20-year-old Frenchman is to receive twelve million euros of FC Barcelona at the club, at best including bonus payments of more than 20 million." - Source, Spiegel/Football Leaks

This is GROSS. Gross €12m rising to €20m gross with bonuses.

whilst Coutinho's NET is at around €12-14m with gross around €24-27m (unsure on bonuses, not included I believe) -

"There was, in fact, a 20 page agreement between Coutinho and Barcelona on August 31 and the Brazilian would have earned 115m euros over five years with his agent pocketing 10m if the up-front transfer fee was 100m." (gross)

AND

"The club will look to sell him and use the money they receive to reinvest into the squad, while an exit would also free up 13.5 million euros from the wage bill." (net)

AND

"According to BILD. Buy option is 120M and Bayern will take over his 13M (net) salary" which works out to €26m gross salary

Sources - Marca, Bild and Spiegel/Football Leaks

So, the idea that Dembele earns "significantly more than Coutinho" is incorrect. Won't even bother checking other contract figures you've cited because you couldn't even get the first two correct.

And you talk of Barcelona's "wage structure". Yes, I agree, my exact point, they don't have one. It was shattered by Messi's obscene contract, distorted by the other obscene contracts and then financial incompetency piled in on top of it.

With regards to "wage structures" not existing. I find that laughable. I'll leave you with a quote from Bayern regarding Kroos' contract -

Beckenbauer said: "You have to make a decision as a club when someone's demands are going through the roof. There is not a single player who's worth changing your entire wage structure for. Nobody's indispensable. If the player wants to stay at Bayern, I can only advise him not to overplay his hand."

Presume Bayern let Kroos go for free for a "wage structure" that doesn't even exist. Jesus H Christ.

 

[sp_107]

This is the point though. 50 or 60 years from now, most people aren’t going to remember or care how a club got the money to buy the players they needed to win or the particular circumstances that facilitated winning. Just like very few care that when Real Madrid won the European Cup in 1957, the trophy was actually handed over to the captain Miguel Munoz by Generalissimo Franco. Or that when Argentina won the World Cup in 1978 they were in the midst of a military junta and the officers under their command were literally torturing and murdering thousands of dissidents. All people will care about is who won what and when. It’s sad but that’s the way it is.

so true

 

[Marwood]

Think about it…… I don’t want more, I don’t want any like PSG. The answer was right in front of you.

It’s a crying shame that the sport is so lopsided.

You said its wrong only one club can afford the worlds best player and that was an indicator that football was broken.

My question is how do you want the other clubs to afford him?

 

[JPRouve]

The quote is someone with actual knowledge of Barcelona's contract negotiations. That's something that you don't possess. Someone who actually knows what was going on with Barcelona's contract demands and what benchmarks were being provided. All you can provide is incorrect contract figures trying to prove a futile point and irrelevant lines like "the quote is dumb".

Dembele earns significantly more than Coutinho? Where's your source for this?

Closest thing to verifiable info was the Football Leaks which had Dembele at -

"The 20-year-old Frenchman is to receive twelve million euros of FC Barcelona at the club, at best including bonus payments of more than 20 million." - Source, Spiegel/Football Leaks

This is GROSS. Gross €12m rising to €20m gross with bonuses.

whilst Coutinho's NET is at around €12-14m with gross around €24-27m (unsure on bonuses, not included I believe) -

"There was, in fact, a 20 page agreement between Coutinho and Barcelona on August 31 and the Brazilian would have earned 115m euros over five years with his agent pocketing 10m if the up-front transfer fee was 100m." (gross)

AND

"The club will look to sell him and use the money they receive to reinvest into the squad, while an exit would also free up 13.5 million euros from the wage bill." (net)

AND

"According to BILD. Buy option is 120M and Bayern will take over his 13M (net) salary" which works out to €26m gross salary

Sources - Marca, Bild and Spiegel/Football Leaks

So, the idea that Dembele earns "significantly more than Coutinho" is incorrect. Won't even bother checking other contract figures you've cited because you couldn't even get the first two correct.

And you talk of Barcelona's "wage structure". Yes, I agree, my exact point, they don't have one. It was shattered by Messi's obscene contract, distorted by the other obscene contracts and then financial incompetency piled in on top of it.

With regards to "wage structures" not existing. I find that laughable. I'll leave you with a quote from Bayern regarding Kroos' contract -

Beckenbauer said: "You have to make a decision as a club when someone's demands are going through the roof. There is not a single player who's worth changing your entire wage structure for. Nobody's indispensable. If the player wants to stay at Bayern, I can only advise him not to overplay his hand."

Presume Bayern let Kroos go for free for a "wage structure" that doesn't even exist. Jesus H Christ.

You are mixing individual arbitrations with wage structures. There is no wage structure because a club will evaluate the worth of a player or how much they should offer him based on parameters that have little to do with their other players, it has more to do with how replaceable he is in the market and at what cost. Clubs have budgets and they have wage ceilings depending on the player they are negotiating with but they don't actually have a wage structure.

Let me ask you this simple question, do all Bayern players of the same level earn the same amount? For example Coman, Gnabry and Sané?

 

[JPRouve]

You said football is broken because only one club can afford Messi. So what do you want to happen so other clubs can afford him?

If you want the football industry to improve you don't want more PSG's do you? You don't want more clubs owned by states.

The only reason they can afford his ridiculous wage is exactly because they're owmed by Qatar. The reason almost everybody else can't is because they're bound by certain economic rules.

But you want more more clubs like PSG(state owned) to compete with PSG?

That's just making the football world even worse.

Unless all clubs have the same revenue, you will still only have a few clubs able to afford the best player in the world.

 

[adexkola]

You bolded the wrong part: "Bartomeu was widely seen as a soft touch by the club’s Catalan core of homegrown players who all got bumper pay rises during his term, and by agents of newer arrivals such as Ousmane Dembele, Griezmann and Coutinho" this is the crux. Messi, the outlier in the sport being used as barometer by others would get laughed out of town, just as in other sports where there are earners in different stratospheres on the same teams.

The problem here is using the greatest outlier there is to establish a mean. He's an island separated from the norms and structure what you're saying is applicable to.

You used Griezmann and his World Cup exploits as a comparative to Messi, arguably the greatest player of all time and a god at Barcelona. You do realise how absurd that is? On any scale, Messi is the sun and others are components in the remainder left to sort out what they can amongst themselves. Bartomeu playing Santa with others in the team has everything to do with Barcelona's predicament. A stronger president would have incentivised the lesser lights with the carrot of perform anything like Messi and watch your contract rise exponentially.

Or say, "yeah feck off, you're not Messi. Take this salary or jog on"

 

[Damien]

Aguero's friend interviewing him

https://www.twitch.tv/ibai

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

PSG team looks so top-heavy like it was created by someone on the Football Manager editor. Not sure who is going to do the running and pressing off the ball against the big sides in the UCL. Think a well-drilled Tuchel Chelsea team or a strong Bayern team could really smash them.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

You said its wrong only one club can afford the worlds best player and that was an indicator that football was broken.

My question is how do you want the other clubs to afford him?

Ahhhhh…. I see where you’re going wrong. You’re not actually reading what I’m saying, you’re simply inventing things and then disagreeing with yourself.

This is what I said;

How depressing that the best player in the world is available for free and only one club can afford the phone call.

Football is broken.

You can attach all manner of narratives to it if you like. It was a short commentary on where we are right now. I’m not commenting on the right/wrong. Nor am I wading into debates on State Clubs or Messi’s required take home pay.

I’m merely saying it’s really depressing that the sport is fcuked to the point that none of the worlds biggest clubs can attempt to sign the worlds best player, for free.

 

[JPRouve]

Ahhhhh…. I see where you’re going wrong. You’re not actually reading what I’m saying, you’re simply inventing things and then disagreeing with yourself.

This is what I said;



You can attach all manner of narratives to it if you like. It was a short commentary on where we are right now. I’m not commenting on the right/wrong. Nor am I wading into debates on State Clubs or Messi’s required take home pay.

I’m merely saying it’s really depressing that the sport is fcuked to the point that none of the worlds biggest clubs can attempt to sign the worlds best player, for free.

I would say that most of the top earners could sign Messi with the same deal, the Ronaldo deal wasn't that different when you consider his wage and the transfer fee, it's not actually a free transfer. The issue is about where those clubs are in terms of their cycle in 2021, it's not necessarily a good idea to spend it today, some clubs aren't that interesting from a football standpoint and probably none of them budgeted it as an August signing.

 

[Fortitude]

Or say, "yeah feck off, you're not Messi. Take this salary or jog on"

Haha, putting it succinctly.

 

[Marwood]

Ahhhhh…. I see where you’re going wrong. You’re not actually reading what I’m saying, you’re simply inventing things and then disagreeing with yourself.

This is what I said;



You can attach all manner of narratives to it if you like. It was a short commentary on where we are right now. I’m not commenting on the right/wrong. Nor am I wading into debates on State Clubs or Messi’s required take home pay.

I’m merely saying it’s really depressing that the sport is fcuked to the point that none of the worlds biggest clubs can attempt to sign the worlds best player, for free.

I understood your point, I'm just disagreeing.

It isn't a football problem, you shouldn't be depressed. It's a very specific Lionel Messi problem. He wants a million a week at 34.

Cool if you want to put out a statement without any further explanation but that's why asked, what do you want to happen for a bunch of other clubs to justify that much per week for a 34 years old?

Only one answer to that,(unless you want to provide your own answer?) more state ownership.

Nobody but PSG and a handful of greedy players wants Qatar involved in football but that only one club on the planet is corrupt enough to offer Messi that money ahould be seen as a positive.

 

[RobinLFC]

I would say that most of the top earners could sign Messi with the same deal, the Ronaldo deal wasn't that different when you consider his wage and the transfer fee, it's not actually a free transfer. The issue is about where those clubs are in terms of their cycle in 2021, it's not necessarily a good idea to spend it today, some clubs aren't that interesting from a football standpoint and probably none of them budgeted it as an August signing.

But wasn't that also made possible because it's partly paid through a sponsorship deal with Fiat or something along those lines? I remember reading something back then that Juve wouldn't have been able to afford him if not for Agnelli's link with Fiat, but not sure how it exactly worked.

 

[JPRouve]

But wasn't that also made possible because it's partly paid through a sponsorship deal with Fiat or something along those lines? I remember reading something back then that Juve wouldn't have been able to afford him if not for Agnelli's link with Fiat, but not sure how it exactly worked.

The rumour is that Exor pays a large part of his wage but that's Juventus, they are one of the historically sugar daddied clubs. Exor is the Agnelli family.

 

[Unam333]

He looks genuinely happy.
He was only ever to leave Barca for PSG. A club with unlimited funds, the ambition, his buddy Neymar, the French lifestyle.

 

[TheGame]

Thoughts and prayers with Moise Kean at this time.

 

[Redlyn]

Funny to think the accumulated transfer fee of arguably the greatest player in history is 0.

And then there is Lukaku

 

[JPRouve]

Thoughts and prayers with Moise Kean at this time.

Everton aren't that bad.

 

[RobinLFC]

The rumour is that Exor pays a large part of his wage but that's Juventus, they are one of the historically sugar daddied clubs. Exor is the Agnelli family.

What's the remaining difference with the Glazer family at Utd then? As to being a sugar daddy club, historically or recently.

Also goes to show imo that people will forget over time how titles are won, I don't see anyone on here accusing Juventus for winning titles based on sugar daddy money like they usually do with City. You can call them hollow or without meaning all you want but if people will have forgotten about it in twenty or fifty years time they all count the same.

 

[nuanced]

Barca had Neymar Suarez and Messi in their primes and they won 1 cl. Ridiculous that people are thinking this is an automatic CL win for PSG.

Pochettino is a much better manager than Enrique. Yet historically, PSG managers have struggled getting the squad to implement their vision, so Poch will have different challenges than Enrique.

 

[RobinLFC]

Pochettino is a much better manager than Enrique. Yet historically, PSG managers have struggled getting the squad to implement their vision, so Poch will have different challenges than Enrique.

Based on what exactly?

 

[monosierra]

Based on what exactly?

His own opinion, I guess. I can't think of any objective criteria by which Poch would be superior to Enrique, as impressive as most of his tenure at Spurs had been. But winning the CL is hard - the knock-out stages and especially the final could be a crapshoot as lesser teams show up big time and star-studded teams falter at just the wrong moment. The talent is obviously there - its up to the manager to bring out the best in the squad and have them playing in tune with each other.

I do wonder if the lower quality of Ligue 1 has a negative effect on their CL contenders in the long run.

 

[AltiUn]

Pochettino is a much better manager than Enrique. Yet historically, PSG managers have struggled getting the squad to implement their vision, so Poch will have different challenges than Enrique.

He’s really not, don’t understand the disrespect Enrique gets. Enrique has more trophies than most managers ever achieve.

 

[JPRouve]

What's the remaining difference with the Glazer family at Utd then? As to being a sugar daddy club, historically or recently.

Also goes to show imo that people will forget over time how titles are won, I don't see anyone on here accusing Juventus for winning titles based on sugar daddy money like they usually do with City. You can call them hollow or without meaning all you want but if people will have forgotten about it in twenty or fifty years time they all count the same.

I could be misinterpreting your questions but the Agnelli Familly have bankrolled it for almost a century, they poured billions into Juventus. As an example I'm not even sure if they have ever had a shirt sponsor that wasn't a subsidiary of Exor. The Glazers on the other end take money away from the club, it's a business venture for them and they didn't spend a cent on it.

As for your second paragraph, that's a point that I have made for years, many current top clubs are now self sufficient because businessmen gave them a competitive advantage decades ago, these clubs are still ripping the fruits from it. Now most of these clubs have also been very well managed which is why they are still around unlike other clubs that were also bankrolled but failed to capitalize on it.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

Pochettino is a much better manager than Enrique. Yet historically, PSG managers have struggled getting the squad to implement their vision, so Poch will have different challenges than Enrique.

As of right now in their careers, Enrique has proven to be a far better coach than Poch. Pretty sure Poch himself knows this.