Lionel Messi | PSG Watch

Axe2401 said:
Ramos hugging Messi is still very disturbing :wenger:
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So true! PSG had a free kick right near the end of the game and Messi and Neymar talked to each other how to take it. In comes Ramos and hugs both, it was so weird seeing the three of them close together on the pitch for the same team after all this rivalry years :lol: can’t get used to that.
 
Second in Europe in goal contribution for the year 2022 behind Mbappe with 50 (26g, 24a), only player in Europe's top 5 right now with double digit goals and assists for the season.
 
It amazes me that anyone could genuinely think this guy isn't the most talented player to ever grace the sport. He's effectively 2 all-time great players rolled into one. Phenomenal goal scorer and playmaker, and at his peak he was the best dribbler in the sport too. When you look at the sheer range of skill and ability he possesses no one comes close quite frankly
 
wangyu said:
You are misunderstanding me. Nobody directly compares them anymore with Maradona like they did in the 80s. Maradona has grown past that, Messi’s status and aura will grow past Ronaldo’s.

Young football fans know maradona and he is most likely one of the very few 80s players they know.
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Ah, I get what you mean now.

Still while Messi is undoubtedly the more talented player (and my favourite after Maradona), you just can't dismiss Ronaldo's achievements which by far exceed what any other great has done at a club level and he has, like Messi, a decent record with his national team. These two have set new standards and will never be forgotten. Both of them are true legends of the game. It's impossible to talk about one without mentioning the other because no one can be compared to them.

I think Messi has a chance to win the WC and maybe then tilt the balance in his favor, but as of right now they're pretty much tied, and it will stay this way should they fail to win another title with their national team.
 
Sayros said:
Second in Europe in goal contribution for the year 2022 behind Mbappe with 50 (26g, 24a), only player in Europe's top 5 right now with double digit goals and assists for the season.
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What’s the biggest difference between Messi this year and last? Just settled into a more functional team, or has he adapted a lot to his teammates?
 
Hoof The Ball said:
Broke Pele's all-time G+A record tonight, btw.

Officially the most goal contributions in the history of the game, period.
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Are assist stats pre 2005 reliable though? I have my doubts and reservations on this topic. Some of the assist numbers seem very dodgy.
 
wangyu said:
I’m not so sure about that, it seemed very close to me until 1986. If Zico had won the world cup in 82 maybe the history books would look differently.

Here are some stats for the South American player of the year.

1976 zico 2nd
1977 zico first
1978 both not top 3
1979 both not top 3
1980 zico 2nd, Maradona 1st
1981 zico first, Maradona 2nd
1982 zico first, maradona 3rd
1983 both not top 3
1984 both not top 3
1985 both not top 3 and zico‘s career more or less finished here

So during the time they both had a career zico seemed to be seen as a better player. Statistically he was by far the better player in fact, he scored goals for fun, easily totaling yearly tallies of 30 to 60 goals for a period of 10 years.
Even in the hardest league in the world at the time Serie A he scored 19 goals in his first season, then his career got plagued by injuries. The tally of 19 goals in the serie a was never bettered by Maradona.
Other than stats he was just as Maradona an excellent playmaker and dead ball specialist.
With a bit more luck in 82 and less injuries in Italy the story light have been different.
For me the difference between the two is everything but clear cut.

I can make the same case for Platini who absolutely dominated the European championship of 1984 but for some reason this gets forgotten maybe because Platini didn’t score an outrageous solo goal…He also outscored Maradona in the serie A and was an excellent playmaker.

In retrospect Maradona would have won just 2 ballon d’ors with Platini still having won 3 so also here the difference is definitely not very clear.
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Good points although maradona was too young in 1976-78 to be compared to Zico or any other great south-american player. Platini's Juventus was the dominant team at the time though and pretty much stacked, compared to Maradona's Napoli which had to wait a couple of seasons to become truly competitive. So no wonder Platini scored more goals. Not to take away any of his achievements, because he truly was a fabulous player.
 
That_Bloke said:
Good points although maradona was too young in 1976-78 to be compared to Zico or any other great south-american player. Platini's Juventus was the dominant team at the time though and pretty much stacked, compared to Maradona's Napoli which had to wait a couple of seasons to become truly competitive. So no wonder Platini scored more goals. Not to take away any of his achievements, because he truly was a fabulous player.
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In 1985 it definitely wouldn’t have been controversial to say Platini was better than Maradona. He’d just gotten his third Ballon d’Or in a row after being the top scorer and winning France’s first international tournament (Euro ‘84) and Juventus’ first European Cup (‘85), which followed on from being top scorer when Juve won the league in ‘83. All while being the team’s chief playmaker too.

Then injury problems kicked in and he effectively retired a couple of years later in his early 30s, while Maradona then took over in his late 20s. After hitting double figures in the league for the previous 12 years, and winning that third Ballon d’Or just two years earlier, he managed just 2 league goals at 32. Maradona was effectively finished at that age too. What Messi’s still doing at 35 is incredible in comparison, and it wouldn’t have been possible without better protection for attackers.
 
Yes, I will concede he's the GOAT. I've long believed that Maradona was the best ever, but Messi is a better freak. We will definitely see better players than Messi in the future, but it is hard to imagine another player who has that elite-tier longevity.
 
Brwned said:
In 1985 it definitely wouldn’t have been controversial to say Platini was better than Maradona. He’d just gotten his third Ballon d’Or in a row after being the top scorer and winning France’s first international tournament (Euro ‘84) and Juventus’ first European Cup (‘85), which followed on from being top scorer when Juve won the league in ‘83. All while being the team’s chief playmaker too.

Then injury problems kicked in and he effectively retired a couple of years later in his early 30s, while Maradona then took over in his late 20s. After hitting double figures in the league for the previous 12 years, and winning that third Ballon d’Or just two years earlier, he managed just 2 league goals at 32. Maradona was effectively finished at that age too. What Messi’s still doing at 35 is incredible in comparison, and it wouldn’t have been possible without better protection for attackers.
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I fully agree with that. As I said, I'm no way trying to downplay Platini's performances.

As for Maradona, while it's true that he never had the protection Messi and the modern attackers nowadays have and it took its toll, we all know that his drugs addiction meant that he'd never last long. I think that if he was playing today he'd have never reached his peak and retired even earlier with that lifestyle. I'm old enough to remember the WC 1990 and while having a good tournament, especially if you take his ankle injury into account, it was his swan's song. Everything after that WC went south for him, at an astonishing speed. So no point comparing Messi and Maradona past their thirties, the former winning by a country mile.

Maradona is still my GOAT, but that's just an opinion.
 
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TheLord said:
Yes, I will concede he's the GOAT. I've long believed that Maradona was the best ever, but Messi is a better freak. We will definitely see better players than Messi in the future, but it is hard to imagine another player who has that elite-tier longevity.
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Peak as well though, 113 goals and assists in 69 games 2012. Hard to see someone matching that.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
With the caveat that he plays in ligue 1 and all his CL goals and assists this season are basically against Maccabi, yes.
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For sure somewhat legitimate stick to beat him with but I still think it was a correct career move unlike Neymar who was in his prime.
 
I can say I saw Messi live once in my lifetime.

And I hope he returns to the country for his farewell match with the NT so that I can watch him once again.

Best of all times in my books, with Maradona being the Greatest.
 
Messi has become a Harden/Westbrook of football :D. He'll stat-pad against minions and disappear when thing get tough. I hope Real gets PSG again in the knock-out phase, you just know he'll turn to shit.
 
Pocho said:
Maradona was 15 in 1976. He didn’t even make it to the 1978 WC.
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Yeah I know but it was a good starting point for me as Zico was top 3 in the South American “ballon d’or for the first tile,thzt year.
By all accounts I did hear Maradona deserved a call up for the WC 78, people at the time didn’t understand he didn’t make it.
 
OK_computer said:
Messi has become a Harden/Westbrook of football :D. He'll stat-pad against minions and disappear when thing get tough. I hope Real gets PSG again in the knock-out phase, you just know he'll turn to shit.
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Aw mate just get a life already
 
Gehrman said:
For sure somewhat legitimate stick to beat him with but I still think it was a correct career move unlike Neymar who was in his prime.
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100% I feel like maybe he could have left Barca a bit earlier, really they weren’t truly elite since Enrique left and it’s a shame he didn’t play in the PL or Serie A at least for a couple of seasons but PSG is a great career move. Neymar really should have stayed at Barca and I think he’d have become more and more pivotal for them.
 
Brwned said:
What’s the biggest difference between Messi this year and last? Just settled into a more functional team, or has he adapted a lot to his teammates?
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Idk about last year, but watched a few this year (in person v Marseille) and PSG's midfield is very good and balanced. Ruiz, Verrati, and Vitinha for me has power, finesse, and engine room in it respectively. That let's the top 3 walk around a little more, but also surprised me that Neymar is playing pretty hard contrary to my priors. Vitinha especially looks fantastic, wish AFC would've gone for him too.
 
OK_computer said:
Messi has become a Harden/Westbrook of football :D. He'll stat-pad against minions and disappear when thing get tough. I hope Real gets PSG again in the knock-out phase, you just know he'll turn to shit.
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Your comparison is about as inspired as your choice of which club to support is. Hint: it's not.
 
wangyu said:
Yeah I know but it was a good starting point for me as Zico was top 3 in the South American “ballon d’or for the first tile,thzt year.
By all accounts I did hear Maradona deserved a call up for the WC 78, people at the time didn’t understand he didn’t make it.
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he was great. But Alonso and Valencia were the best in that position at that time.
 
I mean his goals and assists are in the uber eats league and against a team in the CL that Burnley would beat. I would wait to see how he does against good teams in the CL/WC before saying he’s back. Moving to PSG he was always going to be judged on where he took them in the CL not uber eats. Same reason why Ronaldo’s time at Juve was largely a failure.
 
NewYorkRed said:
I mean his goals and assists are in the uber eats league and against a team in the CL that Burnley would beat. I would wait to see how he does against good teams in the CL/WC before saying he’s back. Moving to PSG he was always going to be judged on where he took them in the CL not uber eats. Same reason why Ronaldo’s time at Juve was largely a failure.
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That Haifa team is solid, especially away. They beat Juventus (which I admit is not really an achievement these days), gave a gutsy performance against PSG and Benfica and knocked out Red Star in the qualifiers.
They're a decent side. Burnley would probably bend over in the away game, having never experienced what a hostile atmosphere in football actually looks and feels like.
 
That_Bloke said:
Ah, I get what you mean now.

Still while Messi is undoubtedly the more talented player (and my favourite after Maradona), you just can't dismiss Ronaldo's achievements which by far exceed what any other great has done at a club level and he has, like Messi, a decent record with his national team. These two have set new standards and will never be forgotten. Both of them are true legends of the game. It's impossible to talk about one without mentioning the other because no one can be compared to them.

I think Messi has a chance to win the WC and maybe then tilt the balance in his favor, but as of right now they're pretty much tied, and it will stay this way should they fail to win another title with their national team.
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The difference between the two is in their all round play with the PSG shortie easily and by a distance better and that is why they aren't equal at all.

Having said that I respect Ronaldo's achievements and consider him based on his longevity, goals, individual and collective success an all time great but just below Messi, Pele, and Maradona. He just lacks that genius on the ball that these 3 and others (who lacked the longevity and achievements) like Cruijff, Zico, Brazilian Ronaldo, Ronaldinho etc had.
 
OK_computer said:
Messi has become a Harden/Westbrook of football :D. He'll stat-pad against minions and disappear when thing get tough. I hope Real gets PSG again in the knock-out phase, you just know he'll turn to shit.
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The fact that you support Madrid makes your opinion irrelevant. Keep crying.
NewYorkRed said:
I mean his goals and assists are in the uber eats league and against a team in the CL that Burnley would beat. I would wait to see how he does against good teams in the CL/WC before saying he’s back. Moving to PSG he was always going to be judged on where he took them in the CL not uber eats. Same reason why Ronaldo’s time at Juve was largely a failure.
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He was by far their best player vs Benfica, a good side. In anycase you are a butt hurt CR7 fanboy.
 
mathrait said:
699 Club goals now. 2 more and he becomes the highest goal scorer in Club football in addition to already being the greatest assister of all time.
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1 behind Ronaldo in goals then? Didn't realise they were so close. Presume that's part of the reason Ronaldo is losing the plot any time he's subbed off or left out. He's going to get left behind very soon
 
mshnsh said:
The fact that you support Madrid makes your opinion irrelevant. Keep crying.

He was by far their best player vs Benfica, a good side. In anycase you are a butt hurt CR7 fanboy.
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Your post kind of shows where you’re at; you write like you’re 13. “Keep crying” “you’re a fanboy” ummm, sounds like you’re the fanboy kiddo.
 
50 goals and assists in 2022 now, and only trails Mbappe in the European top leagues.
He's also the only player in the top 5 leagues with double digit goals and assists (11 goals and 12 assists by late October). He's surely on his way to another 20 goals-20 assists season.
 
NewYorkRed said:
Your post kind of shows where you’re at; you write like you’re 13. “Keep crying” “you’re a fanboy” ummm, sounds like you’re the fanboy kiddo.
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I apologise old man/woman :lol: . I am a fan of Messi despite never supporting Barcelona, PSG or Argentina so im not probably a "fanboy." And the reason why I'm a fan is because I absolutely love how he plays the game from his very early days at Barcelona to date. Believe me or not, up until 2014 I used to be firmly in the Ronaldo camp BUT always tried to watch Barcelona games just to watch Messi play. Eventually, with time passing (4 years) after Ronaldo had left United, my bias towards him vanished. And it was easy for me to recognise Messi as the best I've seen while acknowledging Ronaldo's achievements.

I agree that the French league is not the best place to judge him or any other footballer. However the fact is you have to do well against whatever opponent you face and he is doing very very well this season after a very difficult debut season. Although, there is no way, he should win a ballond'or based on ligue 1 performances alone.

I'd say the same for Bundesliga if you play for Bayern (which is why Lewandowski did not deserve the ballond'or), serie A in years gone bye playing for Juve, or now maybe (controversial) even the Premier league IF playing for Man City (ofcourse that depends on the position of the player).
 
Ladron de redcafe said:
50 goals and assists in 2022 now, and only trails Mbappe in the European top leagues.
He's also the only player in the top 5 leagues with double digit goals and assists (11 goals and 12 assists by late October). He's surely on his way to another 20 goals-20 assists season.
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Yeah he's been great this season, it seems that some who were quick to write his obituary last season are the same who are doubting his current resurrection.
 
Honestly, I'm at a stage where I find it hard to get into these debates about what level he's doing it at or versus whom. After last season, which felt like an end of career season, it's just been a privilege to see him enjoy his career again and score the goals he wasn't last year. I couldn't care less what he does in the CL knockout games, I'm just happy he's playing like a top player again.
 
wr8_utd said:
Honestly, I'm at a stage where I find it hard to get into these debates about what level he's doing it at or versus whom. After last season, which felt like an end of career season, it's just been a privilege to see him enjoy his career again and score the goals he wasn't last year. I couldn't care less what he does in the CL knockout games, I'm just happy he's playing like a top player again.
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Agree with you on this, he actually is playing at the same level now for PSG that he has been for the Argentine national side throughout his PSG tenure IMO which was always evidence for me that something wasn't right on/ off the pitch there under Poch.

I also think that PSG will eventually get knocked out of the CL because they don't work hard enough and they allow too many shots/corners against some of the worst teams in France (great for betting) so they will probably be put to the sword fairly quickly when they come across more clinical sides.

This will be used against Messi as evidence he is "washed" (as the kids say) even though it will be something that will probably always haunt PSG due to the lack of competition in their league.

I'm just happy to see him enjoying his football again after a rough year.
 
Brwned said:
What’s the biggest difference between Messi this year and last? Just settled into a more functional team, or has he adapted a lot to his teammates?
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Well, for one, he's not playing RW this season at all. He's also an older player, so having a good pre-season is key to get him started on the right note, which he had this season. Then you have our midfield which is far more capable of handling the play than when we had only Veratti capable of dictating play from there. Between Vitinha and Ruiz, there is more creativity from midfield which alleviates pressure from him so he can focus his energy on the last third.

He's also acclimated now, which is off-the-field stuff but it often can translate to better performances on it.
 
Brilliant, brilliant player and a great season so far. Have to say after last season I thought he was going to ride off in the sunset but he's back with a vengeance. Lovely player to watch and top 1/2 of all time.
 
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