2004 and 2016 not that he carried them then whatsoever but just for the comparison.Two?
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
The mind boggles how even CR's mum could think that he's on his level.
CR Is a goalscorer, Messi is also a goalscorer plus SO MUCH more.
That's true, but just for comparison sake. Peyroteo acts as if Ronaldo has been that much more valuable than Messi whilst that just isnt true, luckily for him his team scraped a win (as they did all tournament) and know he acts as if Ronaldo has outperformed Messi on International Stage, which isnt true.
Sorry for derailing the thread.
I agree with that. International football is weird, we won it in 2016 but we could have easily won it or reached the final had things gone a bit differently in 2008 or 2012. Cristiano certainly deserved to win it more in 2012 but luck plays its part in these things too
On an individual level, Cris was at his best at euro 2012 were he just didn't have a good enough team around him.
Messi...probably the 2010 WC, where the problem was Maradona making them play football out of the 50s...
Both have been great for their NT, but neither has been transcendent. Pelé, Garrincha, Maradona, Platini and Zidane blow them out of the water when it comes to NT. You could make a convincing argument for Bruno Conti, Baggio, Romario and Ronaldo as well...
Messi...probably the 2010 WC, where the problem was Maradona making them play football out of the 50s...
Both have been great for their NT, but neither has been transcendent. Pelé, Garrincha, Maradona, Platini and Zidane blow them out of the water when it comes to NT. You could make a convincing argument for Bruno Conti, Baggio, Romario and Ronaldo as well...
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The mind boggles at how some people think Cristiano is just a goalscorer. Not even these days that is true nevermind before
The thing with Cristiano is that he might not have had one single incredible tournament like those guys all had (2012 was his best), but he's been incredibly important to us for a long time and in many tournaments. He was crucial both in 2004 and in 2016 to send us to our two ever finals. That's 12 years apart. We've been to more tournaments since he's been around than in all our history before. Replace him with the likes of Platini, Zidane or Baggio and I don't think we're half as successful as we've been in this period.
Even if we hadn't won I'd say the same thing. I just think he's elevated Portugal in a way Messi hasn't done with Argentina.
If we're going to keep on this topic, we better change it to the Messi vs Ronaldo thread as we're off topic here
No Eder and you'd have nothing either. People are so obsessed with individuals. Ronaldo didn't 'take' you anywhere. His tournament was decent at best. Didn't even play the final ffs.
But this is for another thread anyway.
That's precisely why Messi is so unique and all on his own from this generation. He scores obsene number of goals and his playmaking/passing/dribbling are all downright phenomenal. It's pretty much like someone combined a number for amazing footballers into one. (And then decided to blonde his hair for no apparent reason)
Can't wait to see him bossing the midfield for Mean Machine next season!
Reversed racism?
He's a great footballer, obviously, but the term complete may be a little misleading, I think. His defending is non-existant; his aerial ability is quite poor. He doesn't cover much distance - very little in fact - and he plays too far up the pitch to really dictate play. So he isn't Xavi, Maldini, Makelele rolled into one. He's a very complete attacker with a couple of exceptions such as aerial ability and to some extent athleticism. What he is good at, however, he is great at, so much so that it elevates him above and beyond most footballers. Greatest of all time will always be a discussion, no matter.
Lock him up...
couple of weeks ago I read that Ronaldo scored 46 headers for Real, but what's more interesting is the fact that Messi has scored 22 of them. for such a small player, that's actually good record, especially when you take into account Barca's style of play and their tendencies to take short corners. obviously he's no match for Ronaldo in that regard, but those stats surprised me a bit.
According to Statbunker, Messi had 18 with his head and Ronaldo 58...
I didn't the say he was Xavi and Maldini rolled into one. That would an odd thing to perceive from what I said. Obviously you'd combine attackers not defenders FFS. His passing, dribbling, speed, intelligence, goalscoring, playnaking abilities etc, are clearly of such a level where it almost feels like they're of several great players rolled into one. Zidane plus Henry is very simplistic stuff but there's an element of truth to it. I didn't think I'd ever see a football who is pretty much a genius at so many aspects.
Also things like non existent defending have only come with age. Watch him in his pomp. The guy was absolutely terrific off the ball.
Greatest of all time will always be a discussion. But usually among very few. As of now, it appears Messi, Maradona and Pele are the ones that usually make the cut. I think it's prety tedious. They're all players that span many generations and many different environments and contexts. For me, Messi is easily the best I've seen and I leave it at that. I can't claim to know how good the other greatest players were without watching them in detail nor do I think it matters who wins these boring arguments.
Since I read here that Messi's passing is Overrated while Ronaldo's underrated I'm a fan of Peyreteo, he's the evolution of Cal?.
But this thread is just to talk about the greatest player of this century.
I'll leave this phenomenal video
But this thread is just to talk about the greatest player of this century.
I'll leave this phenomenal video
It's absurd statement, clearly. Messi's passing is a sheer joy to watch. Even in that peformance vs Juve he played an absolute worldie to put Iniesta in.
They're really hell bent on making an example of him. Has anyone else noticed that he's note quite had his head in the game since the tax issues? I mean he's always been a bit lazy and disinterested to a degree but to me it feels like it's had a noticeable effect on him.
Messi's passing is if anything underrated.
Mostly by people here based on stats.
Actually when you watch both play you can't deny who's the best. One is a goalscoring legend and the other one is a complete legend.
And of course, that's good enough for another 5 months of jizzstains over the internet. Who cares about actually winning the match.
He shouldn't have put himself in this position to begin with. It doesn't worth it.
Look, messi can create chances but that doesn't make him a zidane. He doesn't run the game which is what made the Frenchman what he was.
It's absurd that this needs explaining.
Messi doesnt run the game, I have heard it all now.
Its terrible. Dinho with more goals would've been better but to actually compare him to someone that ran matches? If a player like was to exist (zidane plus henry) we wouldnt have greatest player ever debates.
How many months will CR get for the paltry 4% from the 150 million of income he's enjoyed since being in Spain?
This.
In order to be a Zidane he needs to add pointless stepovers and random bits of skill when the nearest defender is 20 yards away. That'll take him to the level of the Frenchman.
Meh, he was much better in the last 2 Copas
There are players you can compare Messi's passing with and Ronaldo would not be in the top 5 also probably. Ronaldo is great and that's for another thread but there isn't going to be anyone like Messi for a while imo. He's got the passing of Xavi, dribbling and close control of Iniesta and the stats of Ronaldo. He's been doing this when in a great team and the rubbish team he has right now (attack apart). He's an absolute genius.
It is unfair for Ronaldo being compared to Messi, he is a top scorer and the comparison makes him look bad.
Yeah that's what I said. And of course that's typical Messi. Do something brilliant once and nothing after that.
Also, usually teams win matches not individuals. Like if Iniesta took his chance it could have been different. I'm sure Messi made his own mistakes but it's the team that matters, basically.
He's nearly as good at it. The difference being that zidane was better at controlling and Messi at creating. Zidane certainly wasn't a lot better at it. Messi's creative passing for example is better. And given he scores more than Henry is not a bad statement to make. He's basically saying he's a brilliant playmaker plus scorer, which is true.
And of course he runs the game. The fact that he does so much else in addition to that, blinds some people from seeing that.
If Pedro can do as well in Chelsea as he did in Barcelona, there shouldn't be a single doubt that Messi could directly replicate his level too.
"Moved to a team that stayed in second place" My god what a way to sweeting it all for you, that team is Real Madrid, before they were 2nd they just won two league titles. If I wanted to play at your level of bias, RVN won in 4 seaons the same amount of league titles Ronaldo has won since 2009, and when Van Nistelrooy got there Barcelona were no slouchs either, they were the reigning Spanish and European champions. Can I sell to you the Idea RVN > CR7 that I just pulled out of my arse? No, right? Then, don't do the same with Ronaldo and Messi
He is indeed a genius at almost any other thing in the pitch, I feel sorry that you've missed for 12 years the displays of whom most of the people will remember as the GOAT of this sport.
It is that simple with him
His types of goals in finals
Header? Check
Both legs? Check
Poaching? Check
Dribling past 3 guys? Check
Penalty? Check
Beating the defenders at the space? Check
Long shot outside the area? Check
A Volley? Check
Dancing the keeper? Check
Over the keeper? Check
Free kicks? Check
Maradona style? Check
With the frigging chest? Check
And we're not talking he did all of those things vs Granada some saturday afternoon in the Camp Nou or in Melilla in the first round of the cup, his array of skills has been showed at finals, you can't take merit away from that without discrediting any other feat any player has accomplished in the history of Football
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No player is "X + Y" in the strict way.
When I say "Zidane + Henry" I'm talking about the influece he has over his team and the attraction he pulls from the defenders, not that he's ACTUALLY those players combined. Also, Messi runs matches, watch a game from our last 4 seasons or any Argentina game where Banega or Pastore weren't too hot (and there's plenty of them lol) and Messi is the guy that runs the team between Mascherano and the rival area
But, tbf, the best two players that would round up what Messi offers in a field would be David Silva + Sergio Agüero. Same type of body, Silva has a similar mind to Messi and likes the same type of football, Agüero serves as a great example of the instinct Messi has and how he can bang goals when he's on form.
And that's one of the reasons the EPL Messi version annoys me, if a team leaded by Silva, Agüero and Yaya can win the league, surely Messi could do it too, he already played with Yaya and can take the roles Silva and Kun had, then you can add an "extra" player to a team that already won the league. Take the 12-13 season with Agüero scoring 17 in 23 games, round that number up to 38 games and then you have a viable benchmark to believe Messi could at least replicate the 31 goal season Ronaldo had there
This Messi would destroy teams in the PL
Thinking of the 2010/2012 Messi is laughable, he would shet on every team week in week out.
Thinking of the 2010/2012 Messi is laughable, he would shet on every team week in week out.
Off-topic, but why do Euros use a comma instead of a decimal point where it'd obviously dictate and be much clearer?
You sure we talking zizou and not denilson?