In messi's favour, he's generally done pretty well against atletico both in the league and the cup. He only failed in CL, and it was more down to him not being in form than what atletico did. Chelsea did do a good job against him in 2009 as did inter in 2010(first leg were helped by the volcano though), but it's holland, chile and colombia who really managed to get him rattled. Against chile and colombia, he still found ways to hurt them, too.
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
- Start date
They definitely do, especially last season as 12/13 and 13/14 weren't the best years of his career. Last season he was the defending champion and let's just it wasn't a surprise that he got knocked out by Atletico. I'd also add the league decider of the 13/14 season, the last game of the season which had Barca won, they would have had the league that season.
They shut him (and the rest of the Barca) down in the 09 semi, a game where they should have gone through and then again in 12. His record vs Chelsea was exceptionally poor ( 0 goals in 6 odd games).
Chelsea didn't shut messi or barca down in 2012, that was karma
barcelona could have scored 5 goals in both games. They missed chance after chance after chance, hit the post 2/3 times and Messi missed a penalty
barcelona could have scored 5 goals in both games. They missed chance after chance after chance, hit the post 2/3 times and Messi missed a penalty
Yeah man, you've just got to laugh
Maybe it's the other way around, maybe it's a bad time to be a defender, in the 90's beyond Ronaldo and Del Piero you had guys like Stoichkov, Weah, Suker, Mijatovic, Shearer, Kluivert or Litmanen as the best forwards in the world, I'd say Ibra, Messi, Cristiano, Bale, Villa, Griezmann, Neymar, Suarez, Lewa, Douglas Costa, Drogba, Diego Costa, RVP, Robben, Alexis, Ribery or Di Maria would make a bigger dent on 90's defenders, even greater with guys like Iniesta, Ozil, Modric, Pirlo, Xavi, Kroos, Silva, Scholes, Lampard, Toure, Sneijder or Hazard feeding them.
Maybe a 97/98 defense with Hierro and a 33 y/o Sanchis could stop a team like 07/08 United with Tevez, Ronaldo and Rooney hammering them, but I don't think so.
It is, especially in La Liga where forward players get so much protection from the referees and both Barca and Madrid players have been seen in several instances of simulation. I'm all for protection and cutting down the cynical part of the game, to a point where simulation can actually be justified. The referees have simply gone from being far too lenient to dangerous fouls and extreme physical play in the 80s and a big chunk of the 90s to the absolute opposite now where a slight touch is given as a foul. If I had to choose one of those extremes, it would definitely be the latter as the protection of a player's health is paramount and I'd rather see a soft free kick being given as opposed to a career ending injury but the fact is, players till very recently did endure that kind of physicality and cynical play from the defenders that was completely allowed by the officials.
One just has to watch Gentile's hacking down of Maradona and Zico in the 1982 World Cup, where at one point he had a part of Zico's shirt in his hand and it was not punished one bit. In the present day game he would have been easily sent off for remotely similar play. Additionally, the mentality of defenders and how they are coached is absolutely different, right from the keeper. So many of the top fullbacks in this age are incredibly forward minded, who play like wingers in offense, compare that to the likes of Maldini and Bergomi who were basically full fledged defenders who played as CBs or FBs and were defenders first and foremost, as well as played with an absolute no nonsense mentality.
Man marking, especially, was at it's peak around that period and the elite defenders like the ones I mentioned could literally take any player out of the game if they stuck to them. Even Maradona was hardly effective in the 1986 World Cup final till the time Matthaus had him locked down. Coaches don't use any of those negative tactics anymore, the game is far more offense friendly and it's for the better, no doubt. The football is a lot more technical and the overall quality of football is much higher but at the same time, it is an environment where forwards especially in a league like Spain enjoy a certain freedom both from the refs and the style of play a lot of teams use that was not afforded to previous generations. And both Messi and Ronaldo recording those kinds of numbers season on season is a testament to that. They would have still had insane numbers even if they played in that era but not this insane.
Yeah man, you've just got to laugh
@amolbhatia50k @Ish
Now don't get me wrong, Messi is a fantastic player, it's like he's wearing slippers when he controls the ball. But here, for me, is the difference: Messi is a Barcelona player, but Ronaldo could play for Stockport County and score a hat-trick.
"He has everything. He can shoot with both feet, head the ball, he's as brave as a lion, and here's something else people overlook.
SAF..
You can laugh all you want at your own little shortcomings
but let's not pretend like I'm alone or your better than me little amol
Now don't get me wrong, Messi is a fantastic player, it's like he's wearing slippers when he controls the ball. But here, for me, is the difference: Messi is a Barcelona player, but Ronaldo could play for Stockport County and score a hat-trick.
"He has everything. He can shoot with both feet, head the ball, he's as brave as a lion, and here's something else people overlook.
SAF..
You can laugh all you want at your own little shortcomings
but let's not pretend like I'm alone or your better than me little amolSo, this is Leo Messi being shut down?
Only creative force of the team, hitting the post twice, 2 great saves from Cech and one assist. I like knowing now what are the standards he is being hold to, basically his team doesn't win, he is shut down=played bad.
On the other hand, and this is a global thought, not meant for you as the reply, then we have to read how Portugal won the EC thanks to an injured Ronaldo cheering on the sideline and doing some pep talk, that shows his mental strenght. But when Messi puts his whole team on his shoulders and falls short that's not mental fortitude, is a poor performance. Then people ask in this thread to Messi fans why we're so defensive with him
You then proceeded to make numerous Messi vs Ronaldo posts and you are STILL DOING IT.
@amolbhatia50k @Ish
Now don't get me wrong, Messi is a fantastic player, it's like he's wearing slippers when he controls the ball. But here, for me, is the difference: Messi is a Barcelona player, but Ronaldo could play for Stockport County and score a hat-trick.
"He has everything. He can shoot with both feet, head the ball, he's as brave as a lion, and here's something else people overlook.
SAF..
You can laugh all you want at your own little shortcomings
How are you so sure Ronaldo could score hattricks? How can you say something about a guy who is served by Bale, Benzema and Modric? If there's someone proven to be able to dribble past 4 guys and score totally on his own, it's Messi, not Ronaldo. Real Madrid plays for Ronaldo. Messi plays for Barcelona.
@amolbhatia50k @Ish
Now don't get me wrong, Messi is a fantastic player, it's like he's wearing slippers when he controls the ball. But here, for me, is the difference: Messi is a Barcelona player, but Ronaldo could play for Stockport County and score a hat-trick.
"He has everything. He can shoot with both feet, head the ball, he's as brave as a lion, and here's something else people overlook.
SAF..
You can laugh all you want at your own little shortcomings
Seems like someone is trying over compensate for his own shortcomings, namely his nonsensical grasp of logic.Yeah, let's use the words of Ronaldo's ex manager and father figure in football to construe an argument. That makes..... sense.
Listen we get the hint. Life has dealt you an unfortunate hand (pun intended). Shit happens. You've got better things coming (pun intended) in the future.Sorry it was just a reply to people laughing because of their little tiny insecurities
I think the game where he landed boateng on his arse is up there as iconic performances against one of the best defences around go.
@amolbhatia50k @Ish
Now don't get me wrong, Messi is a fantastic player, it's like he's wearing slippers when he controls the ball. But here, for me, is the difference: Messi is a Barcelona player, but Ronaldo could play for Stockport County and score a hat-trick.
"He has everything. He can shoot with both feet, head the ball, he's as brave as a lion, and here's something else people overlook.
SAF..
You can laugh all you want at your own little shortcomings
It's like you're forgetting he already played 3 seasons at professional lower tier leagues with Barcelona C and Barcelona B in the 3rd and 4th Spanish divisions and was already the best player in the pitch as a teenager
Yeah, Stockport would probably sign a 38 y/o Emile Heskey instead of any version of Messi, he's just not cut for anything beyond Barcelona and, recently since he took them to 3 consecutive finals, Argentina
Klose didn't win 4 WC and scored 30 goals there.
And I didn't say its the only criteria.
Lol you seem like you might know the caste system. I'm up here - you are by my feet.
You just know people are talking out of their ass when they talk about Argentina and mention how Messi should have done better with them when having Pastore, di Maria, Aguero etc. Watch them and see how shit they are for Argentina, Higuain, Aguero, di Maria, Pastore have all been sub par for Argentina for ages and that has nothing to do with Messi, they have bottled so many chances and opportunities, especially Aguero just turns into mediocrity when he puts on that shirt. Besides that, winning an international cup has a huge factor of luck. Robben went 1 vs 1 twice and missed both, whilst Spain scored from a goal kick which was supposed to be a corner for the Netherlands (then again de Jong should have gotten red earlier in the match).
Looks like you might know the vaccum system. It's between your ears.Lol you seem like you might know the caste system. I'm up here - you are by my feet.
Ronaldo is a great striker. His shooting of the ball is hard to master. But if you look at his performances almost all his goals are one touch, or 3 at most. He is basically a lethal finisher. He wouldn't greatly improve a team that consistently struggles to create chances because he is not a no10 or a playmaker. How exactly would he score hattricks for Stockport County if they don't give him the ball in the positions he wants?
We all know he would yell at his teammates like a little kid because they didn't pass him the ball exactly as he wanted.
Usual suspects taking a dump in this thread
You're wasting your time and I'd have stopped responding after that caste system remark.
This is a very interesting point, but I disagree with it entirely, when you get beyond the top 3(ronaldo, van basten, romario vs messi, cristiano, zlatan) the rest where more or less equal, if not better. And there were more, too. And as for the creators, again, barring Pirlo, Xavi and Iniesta(who'd have to go against Zidane, Rivaldo and Figo) again, i don't think there's much difference.
The real difference i think lies in the ways football has changed, and you can see that clearly in that in the '90s/early 00s the main creators where classic #10, whereas today they tend to play in deeper positions. Guys like Pirlo, Xavi and Iniesta in the 90s would never have played as CMs
Interesting, I knew that I preferred his treble-winning right wing version, but didn't think that it's so evident how much he had changed since then. His passing is so much better now (although he clearly lacks the energy he had back then)
Chelsea didn't shut messi or barca down in 2012, that was karma
barcelona could have scored 5 goals in both games. They missed chance after chance after chance, hit the post 2/3 times and Messi missed a penalty
It's a terrible myth that's formed. Chelsea defended Barcelona much better in 2008-2009 despite getting knocked out.
Chelsea weren't even that good defensively in the 2012 semis. Barcelona sliced them apart in both legs and just didn't score. They didn't contain anyone. It was the flukiest CL semi-final win I've ever seen.
It was the flukiest CL win I've ever seen tbh.
Its fecking mental mate, I stopped caring about this stupidity long ago but from time to time It baffles me again
He is probably the best player ever known in football history, in terms of pressuring/threatening his teammates to pass him the ball every time when he is in goalscoring position...
Stolen from Reddit. This is just 2016. What a player!
Yeah that was special. The right footed lob against Neuer at the end of it didn't receive much attention back then, but ffs. Footballing Poetry
(From 0:53)
This kinda sums it all
Englishmen, don't worry about facing Argentina in 2018, Southgate doesn't rate him much. We'll be fine apparently.
I just realised the World Cup is next year. Damn.