Lionel Messi - Performances

Sarni said:
Yeah. Still amazes me how people can find him 'shocking', 'awful', 'terrible' for Argentina yet go on about how Ronaldo has excelled for his country when their performances at international level have been very similar. The myth of Messi's 'utterly terrible' 2014 World Cup is particularly tiresome, it's like he can do no right on the international stage unless he scores 8 goals a game and wins San Marino a World Cup.
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I'd say there is an equal myth that he was amazing at the World Cup. Player of the tournament was bollocks and even he looked embarrassed to accept it. He scored some goals at vital times which is obviously great but his overall performances weren't great. Certainly when you consider what he's like at the minute for Barça.

Fully expect him to win them the Copa America though with the form he's in.
 
matherto said:
Player of the tournament was bollocks
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Hardly. There was no standout player at that WC who stood head and shoulders ahead of others and clearly deserved it. Messi had some nice game, so did James and a few others. Everyone had their own pick on who should have won it, it's not like Messi won it ahead of someone else who very clearly deserved it.
 
Aldo said:
Hardly. There was no standout player at that WC who stood head and shoulders ahead of others and clearly deserved it. Messi had some nice game, so did James and a few others. Everyone had their own pick on who should have won it, it's not like Messi won it ahead of someone else who very clearly deserved it.
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James was miles better
Edit: Neymar was a lot better too, I'm sure there were a few others too.

I thought Messi actually played well, just not player of the tournament well
 
Cassidy said:
James was miles better
Edit: Neymar was a lot better too, I'm sure there were a few others too.

I though Messi actually played well, just not player of the tournament well
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James was my pick for the award as well, but miles better? That's the sort of counter exaggeration that is frequent over here these days.
 
Cassidy said:
James was miles better
Edit: Neymar was a lot better too, I'm sure there were a few others too.

I thought Messi actually played well, just not player of the tournament well
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Unfortunately for them both, their tournaments ended in the quarter finals. I'm not sure if players who don't play in the semi finals are considered.
 
Aldo said:
James was my pick for the award as well, but miles better? That's the sort of counter exaggeration that is frequent over here these days.
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Yes I think he was a lot better, even though I thought Messi played well, I actually thought James was outstanding
 
Lay said:
Unfortunately for them both, their tournaments ended in the quarter finals. I'm not sure players who don't play in the semi finals are considered.
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That might explain it tbf
 
matherto said:
I'd say there is an equal myth that he was amazing at the World Cup. Player of the tournament was bollocks and even he looked embarrassed to accept it. He scored some goals at vital times which is obviously great but his overall performances weren't great. Certainly when you consider what he's like at the minute for Barça.

Fully expect him to win them the Copa America though with the form he's in.
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That's pretty accurate.
 
Cassidy said:
James was miles better
Edit: Neymar was a lot better too, I'm sure there were a few others too.

I thought Messi actually played well, just not player of the tournament well
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Neymar definitely wasn't as good.
 
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Both Neymar and James were very good and would have deserved it. Neymar it was particularly impressive given the pressure on his shoulders, but he delivered. Shame his tournament ended early.

Within the Argentina team, I thought Mascherano was better than Messi over the whole tournament.
 
Rooney in Dublin said:
Both Neymar and James were very good and would have deserved it. Neymar it was particularly impressive given the pressure on his shoulders, but he delivered. Shame his tournament ended early.

Within the Argentina team, I thought Mascherano was better than Messi over the whole tournament.
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How was Neymar better? He scored goals and that's it. For his age he did really well given the home crowd and all. On the other hand Messi basically was his team's attack, even if he wasn't at his peak form or fitness. He was the one picking up the ball at every opportunity and had the responsibility of making the play. Look at the position he plays the "pass of the tournament" from (to Di Maria I think).
 
Neymar was also absent in two of the most important games for Brazil (Germany, Holland) and he didn't score in neither of their knockout games.
 
I thought Neymar was excellent in provoking up front, in being the main offensive outlet in an otherwise quite uninspiring brazil team. I don't remember him going missing for large parts of the Brazil games I watched, and I seem to remember him always trying to get on the ball, trying to get things done. I just thought he had an excellent tournament for a kid his age and in that context, and was more impressed by him (and James) than Messi.

I know he was absent during the semis and 3rd place games, which was a shame.
 
Rooney in Dublin said:
I thought Neymar was excellent in provoking up front, in being the main offensive outlet in an otherwise quite uninspiring brazil team. I don't remember him going missing for large parts of the Brazil games I watched, and I seem to remember him always trying to get on the ball, trying to get things done. I just thought he had an excellent tournament for a kid his age and in that context, and was more impressed by him (and James) than Messi.

I know he was absent during the semis and 3rd place games, which was a shame.
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I’d probably agree with you there. I certainly don’t think that Messi had a bad tournament, but I was baffled when he was awarded the best player award for the tournament. Neymar was arguably more crucial to Brazil than Messi was to Argentina, and coped well with the pressure placed upon him.
 
matherto said:
I'd say there is an equal myth that he was amazing at the World Cup. Player of the tournament was bollocks and even he looked embarrassed to accept it. He scored some goals at vital times which is obviously great but his overall performances weren't great. Certainly when you consider what he's like at the minute for Barça.

Fully expect him to win them the Copa America though with the form he's in.
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Is there? You are not even allowed to say he was good at the World Cup, not seen many claim he was amazing at all yet you say it's somehow a norm?
 
I can understand both sides
Sarni said:
Is there? You are not even allowed to say he was good at the World Cup, not seen many claim he was amazing at all yet you say it's somehow a norm?
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Fir each of us saying he wasn't the best there is an opposite number claiming he deserved it because he basically carried Argentina to the final.

Thing is. I don't think he deserved it but I do agree that he was the reason they got so far. He scored or assisted the goals they needed hence he gets the plaudits but because when he wasn't doing that he basically went invisible (much like for Barça last season) that's why I think others were better.

Certainly people can (and will) argue against the invisible oart but look at him this year for Barça when he's at the heart of everything all the time and you can see the difference.

James, Neymar and Robben I'd say were equally important to their teams and Mascherano was an absolute warrior in the same team as Messi. You could say many German players were great too though I suppose their only real standout individual was Schweinsteigers heroic performance in the final.
 
There's so much myth about his World Cup. While he wasn't in his god mode form, everything came from him. He either created or scored every goal, with one or two him playing a part in, and generally was the focal point to build attacks. Also, three of his four goals were solo goals, which even more emphasises how out of form the rest of the attack was.

 
but even if there were several other players who were playing on the same level as Messi, is it not understandable and logical that the award went to him because he was the one who reached the final?
 
Bole Top said:
but even if there were several other players who were playing on the same level as Messi, is it not understandable and logical that the award went to him because he was the one who reached the final?
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Depends. What if someone was absolutely astonishing for three games in a shit team that didn't make it out of the group cause he was playing with 10 Stevie Wonders?
 
i'm not going to argue that he was the best player during the world cup, because i think that Robben, Neuer, James and Neymar can be argued too

but the award he recieved wasnt a joke as some posters said, argentina made it to the final game because of him, argentina if i remember correctly, scored 7 goals in the tournament, 4 were his, 2 were assist from him or the play was started by him, and he only wasnt involved in one goal

the bad luck he had was that most of the times that he looked at his front line to pass the ball, non of our players were in a position to recieve the ball. Higuain, Aguero and Palacio didnt deliver.

the difference with maradonas 1986 world cup is that when Diego had the ball, he had burruchaga and valdano running to recieve the ball in an open space

even ruggeri scored a goal assisted by maradona

During the final, Messi gave a ball to Palacio that should have ended in goal, but palacio did the stupid thing, he tried to lob the ball, when the obvious was to kick it low

for some posters, that miss is the difference from GOAT to meh
 
Cassidy said:
James was miles better
Edit: Neymar was a lot better too, I'm sure there were a few others too.

I thought Messi actually played well, just not player of the tournament well
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James might have had a better tournament. No way did Neymar have a better one.
 
matherto said:
Depends. What if someone was absolutely astonishing for three games in a shit team that didn't make it out of the group cause he was playing with 10 Stevie Wonders?
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but there wasn't such player, so...
 
Is there any possibility for any player in the future to be better than Messi?


I don't know in terms of goals, assist and style. I think it's impossible.

The guy who could be over Messi for some people will have to win it all (Leagues, at least one UCL), and for me at least two world cups being the best or one of the best. That's the only way you could argue him over Messi.

I mean in terms of carreer. In terms of football, I think it's impossible to match Messi's best level.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Is there any possibility for any player in the future to be better than Messi?


I don't know in terms of goals, assist and style. I think it's impossible.

The guy who could be over Messi for some people will have to win it all (Leagues, at least one UCL), and for me at least two world cups being the best or one of the best. That's the only way you could argue him over Messi.

I mean in terms of carreer. In terms of football, I think it's impossible to match Messi's best level.
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He also has the best tattoo
 
Brown Toothpick said:
Apologies if already posted, but this is just a nice recap of his goals this season. Ahead of the Copa after 4 days.

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He scores some mesmerising goals (PSG was a beautiful team goal, Espanyol are all wonderful individually for example) by my god how many of them are from defensive mistakes or just genuinely awful defending full stop?

I understand that he's that good that really they can't get near him anyway but don't just fecking gift him them on a plate. He gets as many easy goals and tap ins as Ronaldo does, La Liga is a joke.
 
matherto said:
He scores some mesmerising goals by my god how many of them are from defensive mistakes or just genuinely awful defending full stop?

I understand that he's that good that really they can't get near him anyway but don't just fecking gift him them on a plate. He gets as many easy goals as Ronaldo does, La Liga is a joke.
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sour grapes. The last line is complete bollocks, it's the best league in the world currently, more embarrassing defending can be seen weekly down in England. Ronaldo has a ton more tap ins and even more penalties so that's nonsense too. Suck it up man.
 
Snake Plissken said:
sour grapes. The last line is complete bollocks, it's the best league in the world currently, more embarrassing defending can be seen weekly down in England. Ronaldo has a ton more tap ins and even more penalties so that's nonsense too. Suck it up man.
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It's the best league in the world for stars and attacking talent yeah.

The defending is worse than England, I'm not having that it's on the same level. It's like they're trained to shit themselves whenever Messi is near (or Ronaldo for that matter though not as much). I don't know if after the same amount of years of being terrorised by him that English defenders would be the same but they're just moronic in that video.
 
matherto said:
It's the best league in the world for stars and attacking talent yeah.

The defending is worse than England, I'm not having that it's on the same level. It's like they're trained to shit themselves whenever Messi is near (or Ronaldo for that matter though not as much). I don't know if after the same amount of years of being terrorised by him that English defenders would be the same but they're just moronic in that video.
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so that's why english teams scored so many goals against the spaniards in the CL and UEFA?


interesting ...
 
You see comedy defending in England every week, I honestly can't grasp where this shite about it being of a higher standard comes from? Anyone?

At one point England was the best defensive league in the world, but that was about or 8 years ago now.
 
matherto said:
It's the best league in the world for stars and attacking talent yeah.

The defending is worse than England, I'm not having that it's on the same level. It's like they're trained to shit themselves whenever Messi is near (or Ronaldo for that matter though not as much). I don't know if after the same amount of years of being terrorised by him that English defenders would be the same but they're just moronic in that video.
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btw, messi didnt play a single game against spanish oposition during the CL, how do you explain him being top scorer?
 
If there's something bad from EPL for me, it's their defenders.

I truly believe Messi in England would be like 10 times more effective. English defenders always give you space or time to execute. And they are always backing off.

Against City in the first goal they let him resolve, no one attacks him. Then after that, he gives a great pass to Neymar in the square because everyone is just watching and doing nothing.

And it was Manchester City.
 
IFC 1905 said:
If there's something bad from EPL for me, it's their defenders.

I truly believe Messi in England would be like 10 times more effective. English defenders always give you space or time to execute. And they are always backing off.

Against City in the first goal they let him resolve, no one attacks him. Then after that, he gives a great pass to Neymar in the square because everyone is just watching and doing nothing.

And it was Manchester City.
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it's matherto, in argentina we would call him "mamerto" :)
 
matherto said:
I understand that he's that good that really they can't get near him anyway but don't just fecking gift him them on a plate. He gets as many easy goals and tap ins as Ronaldo does, La Liga is a joke.
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Utter nonsense. Also, statistically utter nonsense.
 
matherto said:
He scores some mesmerising goals (PSG was a beautiful team goal, Espanyol are all wonderful individually for example) by my god how many of them are from defensive mistakes or just genuinely awful defending full stop?

I understand that he's that good that really they can't get near him anyway but don't just fecking gift him them on a plate. He gets as many easy goals and tap ins as Ronaldo does, La Liga is a joke.
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This season, 85% of Ronaldo's goals were with one touch. 41 out of 48 in La Liga.
I'll be shocked if Messi's is that high.
 
The ignorance about la liga on here is pretty staggering. I don't know if the premier league is that well marketed or people are genuinely that ignorant.

Fabregas who has played in both leagues feels the premier league is easier for attackers as there's always space to play in and do what you want whereas in Spain the space gets condensed.

Now, I'm not someone whose going to say la liga is better in every way, but it's top teams and players are genuinely on a different level to those in England, and the defending I don't think is any worse. This myth about the premise having some magnificent standard of defending is odd to say the least.
 
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