It was a good goal but it wasnt that good blimey, van bastens/rivaldos is a thousand times better
Lionel Messi - Performances
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It was a good goal but it wasnt that good blimey, van bastens/rivaldos is a thousand times better
The athleticism was a level above both of theirs - that's what makes it unique, in my view - and technically it was absolutely perfect. Van Basten's was better for the difficulty of the angle and Rivaldo's for the occasion, I agree. But how many others can you think of? Zlatan's was pretty good but in a friendly and into an open net. Rooney's technically or athletically doesn't compare. I was directly in line with Mandzuckic for his goal in Cardiff last year and for me, Ronaldo's was better too. There aren't that many of them.
I don't see how it's a big claim to say a) it's one of the best goals in CL history and b) it's one of the best overhead kicks in televised history, taking into account the occasion and the level of opponent. I'm not saying it's the best, top three or whatever. But it's part of the conversation in both. If you bring up great overhead kicks that's one of the first that will jump to mind. Likewise for Champions League goals.
Messi is about to win a Liga practically on his own. It's never been as clear as nowadays.
All of this gets blurred because people tend to think that it's Barcelona and they have the world's best players. And if you follow them regularly, they would be nowhere without him, so would Argentina. And now they have real chances to get the treble.
All of this gets blurred because people tend to think that it's Barcelona and they have the world's best players. And if you follow them regularly, they would be nowhere without him, so would Argentina. And now they have real chances to get the treble.
He has 47 goals in CDR. Zarra the topscorer got 81. What are the odds of Messi scoring 35 more goals in that competition over the next 7 or 8 years given that it is the competition he plays less in ?
Agreed. Hey, have you watched most of his matches in last season's La liga ? (2016-17) I need to remember how his influence in last season compares to this one. I forgot most of what happened due to memory problems. He plays so well in most of the games that it is hard to remember details of certain seasons as the current ones progress. I remember the first match against Betis when he scored 2 goals and dropped deep to create and the game against Madrid with him torturing theirs players and the last minute goal basically. This season is he dropping as deep as some say he was in the last one ?
If he wins 3 trebles with almost 3 different squads it would be such a feat.
Anyway, for me winning is just the mix of a job well done and some luck, even if we end up just winning La Liga this season, I'm still thankful for a player like him keeping us in a position to fight every title almost on a yearly basis, there's only so much a single player can do in football.
Messi is Bae, thats all
Yep, it would immediately elevate him to the greatest of all time without a shadow of a doubt, mainly because of influence over each of them.
In 2008/09 it would be unfair to attribute it all to Messi, but he certainly played the biggest role, outshining Iniesta and Xavi in their primes when he was just 21. In 2014/15 he was even more influential, memorable goals against Bayern and in the Copa final. Provided the platform for Neymar and Suarez to have the exceptional seasons they did. He played a wider role but it was also the point he started dropping deeper into midfield to become the creative hub with Xavi rested more.
This season he will have topped the other two combined if the unthinkable happens, essentially a one man midfield/attack. Suarez has been woeful all season, he hit a good scoring streak mid-season, but his all round play is shockingly poor. Iniesta seems to be rested more and more despite being just 33, Coutinho arrived half way into the year, Dembele was out for half the season and still can't nail down a first team spot, Neymar fecked off in the summer, they've got the likes of Denis, Gomes, Paulinho, Digne and Vidal plugging gaps in the side... and yet they remain unbeaten, whilst proving they just can't afford to rest Messi. When they've needed him, he's risen to the occassion every single time.
We went out the CL to Barca, and I find it extremely difficult to take a liking to them after the period between 2005 and 2009, but Messi is the best i've ever seen, I hope he wins the treble and World Cup just to end the boring debate between him and Maradona (and the more recent laughable one between him and Ronaldo).
The biggest question mark over Messi's career will always be his lack of desire to test himself in a different league.
It is one thing to destroy City/United/Arsenal over 2 legs once a season but facing bruising teams like Stoke/West Ham/Sunderland/etc. over 38 games, for multiple years, in a country whose language you don't speak, in much worse weather, with team-mates unfamiliar to the 'Barca-way' and still maintaining fitness/performance-levels presents a whole new challenge.
It can't be a money thing as he would earn massive amounts in any country he went to.
It is one thing to destroy City/United/Arsenal over 2 legs once a season but facing bruising teams like Stoke/West Ham/Sunderland/etc. over 38 games, for multiple years, in a country whose language you don't speak, in much worse weather, with team-mates unfamiliar to the 'Barca-way' and still maintaining fitness/performance-levels presents a whole new challenge.
It can't be a money thing as he would earn massive amounts in any country he went to.
BTW is Messi the only player to have ever fulfilled the "the next" tag? I remember back in 2005/06 he was touted as the next Maradona.
Good question. That “next” tag was always synonymous with Maradona. You had Ortega, aimar and even tevez at one point.
I think people hoped Nani would be the next ronaldo, and lukaku was bought as the next drogba.
Yeah I hate burning messi with that candle. We have praised legends of the game like Maldini for being a one club man but messi doesn’t get that recognition. He’s stayed with Barcelona because he’s loyal. At any point in the last decade he could have moved for a world record fee and world record salary for a sportsman, there would have been takers. Barcelona made him into the player he is, paid a lot of money for his hormone deficiency treatment and he’s spent his entire teen/adult life living there. He’s right now the best one club legend in the history of the game.
I think players like Shearer and Zanetti get plenty of criticism for staying at one team (although Zanetti did win things towards the end of his career). Maldini is in contention for being a top tier defender and is not being discussed as the GOAT. In a discussion for GOAT, I'd argue his one-club, one-league status would be a negative.
Think about the Maradona vs Pele debate. Maradona was legendary for Argentinos Juniors, Boca Juniors and Napoli while being decent for Barca. Pele was legendary for Santos only.
Surely this counts as a huge positive for Maradona and a bit negative for Pele (although the Brazil government was the reason why Pele couldn't play abroad). It's the difference between winning 10 Wimbledon titles versus winning 3 Wimbledon + 3 French + 3 US Open titles (tennis). The latter feels like a more 'complete' career.
With regards to Messi's loyalty, let's be honest ... like every other footballer, he has threatened to leave Barca if he was not paid well.
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Yes, imagine Messi in this year’s city squad, I’m sure he would “struggle” haha
Messi doesn’t need to test himself anywhere else, he’s be annihilating the EPL as often as he does in the CL
Messi doesn’t need to test himself anywhere else, he’s be annihilating the EPL as often as he does in the CL
Honestly I don't think anyone truly believes he would struggle (and they're deluded if they do) but I think Messi would have even further elevated his legacy if he won the premier league along with La Liga. It should not be used as a criticism of his but if he had made the move I think it would have done him much better.
Also it's annoying that we didn't get to see Messi in the premier league. It would have made the premier league so much more exciting.
Messi would obviously tear the league up, but I do wonder if he’d be injured more from being kicked around a lot. We used to hear about Ronaldo’s ankles constantly being a mess when he was playing for us due to being kicked so much.
Can you show me him directly saying that?
If Silva and Aguero have done it...Messi is like both combined and improved.
When this comes up in Maradona v Pele debates: Isn't that mostly due to (unfounded imo) doubts about the quality of the Brazilian league than due to the fact that Pele spent his prime with one team?
Aye, but it seems city would have been in pole position, if he did end up moving over the last year or 2!
Maybe we should be happy it didn’t happen!
But I agree with you. As a football fan and a big follower of the EPL, it would have been special. But feck it, I’m a united fan first
That's a fair point, and while I'd never want him to leave as a Barca fan, it certainly would have been interesting to see what he would be like in the EPL. No question.
Ah the old could Messi do it on a cold winters Monday in Stoke, the dumbest argument in football. Lets be real, this is Messi, he's done it in the Bernabeau against Real and people still question him... He should be praised for staying at Barca not punished.
Using that argument I could say Scholes isn't as good a CM as Yaya Toure because Toures done it in 2 leagues and Scholes hasn't.
Using that argument I could say Scholes isn't as good a CM as Yaya Toure because Toures done it in 2 leagues and Scholes hasn't.
You are right ... the Brazilian league had awesome players ... however, it again becomes a case of "staying within your comfort zone".
When discussing GOAT, the standards have to be absolutely high, or else you will have a case of 4-5 players who can equally lay claim to being GOAT.
Zidane was dubbed the next Platini. Ronaldo the next Pele, Ronaldinho the next Ronaldo and Ronaldo the next Ronaldinho. Neither did too bad.
Keith Gillespie was called the new Georgie Best. He swapped sex and booze for gambling, though, or so I heard.
Messi play for one club but he has play in various teams. Is not the same play under Rikjaard, Pep, Tito, Tata, LE, Valverde... Each one has his differences and differents players.
Really, no one has said this AFAIK in the last few pots. I don't know why people need to bring this up when discussing the idea of Messi in the PL. We can still discuss how he would have done in the premier league as there are many variables to discuss (what team he would join, where he would most likely play or how we would combine with other players there).
I've seen maybe one or two ridiculous opinions out there that suggest Messi would struggle in the premier league.
Perhaps the most amazing thing about Messi these days is how plays so effortlessly. I mean this in every sense of the word: he makes it look easy but also barely does anything. I watched him live against Roma and he spent most of the game trudging around and yet was the most dangerous player on the pitch.
I presume he's saving it all up for later in the season and the WC but could there be anything else behind this?
I presume he's saving it all up for later in the season and the WC but could there be anything else behind this?
I remember reading once that it was guardiolas doctors idea, that he not waste time chasing down balls and save the explosiveness for when he really needs it. Was supposed to protect his hamstrings and quads.
This kind of obscene opinion is based largely around the one about Maradona 'single handedly' winning the World Cup for Argentina - a bit of the Maradona/Napoli fable, and Ronaldo's stint in the Premiership at Utd.
Truth (or fact rather) - If the likes of Aguero, Torres, Suarez, Cazorla Silva, Mata etc (ZzZzZz yawn) can play in the Premiership and be successful then so can Messi.
... but I don't think it's Messi playing in a team like Spurs, City, Chelsea or Utd where the view comes from. I think subconsciously people want to question how he'd far in a pile of shite like Stoke City, cause only a complete wind up would think he wouldn't tear this league apart in the Man City side, he'd probably win them the treble, and he most definintely would have done it this season. He's single handedly doing it with a far inferior team right now.
It also goes to show how stuck up our own arses we are that we're still adament the Premiership is the greatest league in the world, it isn't, and it lags quite clearly behind the Spanish Primera division.
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I think that argument is due to Messi's way of playing being more suited to the more possession based spanish style than to the direct and physical english style of football. I don't think anyone doubts Messi would still be the same player if Barcelona were playing in England instead of Spain
the only club who can afford him is City, yet it really wouldn't change much if he just went to play for them now when Pep is there. there's probably more logic to ask how good he would be in Simeone's Atletico, because their game is more physical and defensive than of both Manchesters, Tottenham, Liverpool and Chelsea. opponents are less important.
Oopsydaisy.
IF This, IF That ... the bottom line is we don't know if he can remain fit enough to play well in such a physical league, full of cloggers, on 'harder' grounds (especially in Winter) and still maintain a high level of performance for multiple seasons. You have to be fit, to be able to play at your best.
Interesting you mention Torres and Cazorla, both who were finished due to their injuries at a younger age.
Mata has had maybe 2 seasons where he has thrived. Probably one of the most expendable attackers under Mourinho this transfer season.
Awfully quiet in here
Goes out of the CL again with a whimper.
I think he also needs to start accepting resting every now and then even when fit. It'll prolong his career.
I think he also needs to start accepting resting every now and then even when fit. It'll prolong his career.
The “Messi couldn’t hack it in England because he’s not physical enough” is put to bed by the fact that the likes of Silva and to a lesser extent Mata for a while at Chelsea, who are vastly inferior players have shone in England.
Would Messi put up the same numbers as he has in Spain? Definitely not, but he’d still tear the league apart.
Would Messi put up the same numbers as he has in Spain? Definitely not, but he’d still tear the league apart.
Agreed.
Rest at this point of the season has done wonders for Ronaldo the past few years.
Next season he needs to do what Ronaldo's been doing and start resting more. Playing 90 minutes against Leganes at home for a league that's already been won 3 days before getting knocked out of the Champions League should never happen.
Absolutely but that's a reflection of how dependent they are on Messi.
Can't blame him at all honestly. Barca are awfully dependent on him and he saved them loads of times this season. Can't ask for it to happen almost every time. It's the manager's responsibility that Barca have become pretty hopeless when he's having an off day.