Lionel Messi - Performances

Luke1995 said:
Anyone knows how many career goals Messi has ? Only official matches including Argentina. I think he'll play for longer than Ronaldo due to age and although Pelé is said to have 1283 goals, if we talk about official matches only, he's got about 700 goals and i'm pretty sure Messi and Ronaldo are close to it.
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From what I remember, Pele's official goals were 757. Ronaldo has 636 and 204 assists in 895 games, Messi - 598 goals, 246 assists in 745 games. It's on the website about their rivalry and it can be seen when broken down by stats in different competitions.

It would be very difficult for both to surpass Pele's goal count, but it would heavily depend where they finish their careers.
 
diplomat said:
From what I remember, Pele's official goals were 757. Ronaldo has 636 and 204 assists in 895 games, Messi - 598 goals, 246 assists in 745 games. It's on the website about their rivalry and it can be seen when broken down by stats in different competitions.

It would be very difficult for both to surpass Pele's goal count, but it would heavily depend where they finish their careers.
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If the Pele number is correct, I think it is not impossible for Messi to score 160 goals in the next 5 years. If he is not still scoring 50 goals per season, he probably is still reaching 40.
 
Luke1995 said:
If the Pele number is correct, I think it is not impossible for Messi to score 160 goals in the next 5 years. If he is not still scoring 50 goals per season, he probably is still reaching 40.
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I think he will fully transition into a playmaker when he loses a bit of pace and that incredible acceleration he has from a stand-still. Don't know when that will happen but age will start affecting his body at some point.
 
In Fantasy Football's (BBC show from the 90s) spoof on Pele's career where they'd show random clips of him doing things that werent that good (the song "Pele was shite, Pele was shite, he was worse than Jason Lee" to the tune "Back Home" accompanies it), they revealed that Pele's 1000 goals included friendlies and charity matches as well. Never trust stats from the 60s.
 
diplomat said:
I think he will fully transition into a playmaker when he loses a bit of pace and that incredible acceleration he has from a stand-still. Don't know when that will happen but age will start affecting his body at some point.
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It probably will take three or four more years, I mean, look at Robben and how he still runs alot at nearly 34. Even if he becomes a full-time playmaker he will still retain his incredible accuracy with freekicks.
 
The guy can pass a ball from his own half into the feet of a runner with an accuracy to the thickness of human hair! Even if he becomes a lot slower, this particular skill will serve him well for years to come!
 
Isn't he already the playmaker for Barca anyway? And it feels like he has been ever since Xavi started to decline and eventually left. Barca struggle badly for creativity when hes not dropping deep. It's ridiculous that he scores the amount of goals he does while still being best passer on the team.
 
words can't describe how good he is. if all the other games in Spain, England, Germany etc. were being played around 15:00 and all the main stars scored hattricks for their clubs, even one good first half from Messi at the end of the day would be enough to forget everything else that happened before that.

what's even more incredible is that we actually got used to this, yet only 15 years ago scoring 25 goals per season from Ruud or Henry was enough to impress us. unbelievable.
 
He and Ronaldo are shitting on anyone else from the last 30 years in terms of consistency and stats.
 
Everyone always says Messi vs Ronaldo = Talent vs Hard work

But I don't think people give Messi credit for how hard he must work

After all he's a 5ft 6 individual in the modern day super athletic sport that is football, he isn't naturally gifted in an athletic sense such as Ronaldo yet he's managed to remain fit and firing, match after match, season after season for about 14 years.

The fact that his career at the very top has been so much longer than other players with God gifted talent e.g. Ronaldinho is a testament to his determination too.

Messi, like Ronaldo, must also have a ridiculous drive and work ethic. I bet his work ethic is actually equal/very similar to Ronaldo's. You don't achieve what he has just with "natural talent" and a regular footballers work ethic

Also, Messi has adapted his game and improved various skills (passing, weak foot, free kick ability - whereas Ronaldo has regressed on this front), showing that he works hard on his game and has the same obsession as Ronaldo, he's just quieter about it.
 
United never give up said:
Everyone always says Messi vs Ronaldo = Talent vs Hard work

But I don't think people give Messi credit for how hard he must work

After all he's a 5ft 6 individual in the modern day super athletic sport that is football, he isn't naturally gifted in an athletic sense such as Ronaldo yet he's managed to remain fit and firing, match after match, season after season for about 14 years.

The fact that his career at the very top has been so much longer than other players with God gifted talent e.g. Ronaldinho is a testament to his determination too.

Messi, like Ronaldo, must also have a ridiculous drive and work ethic. I bet his work ethic is actually equal/very similar to Ronaldo's. You don't achieve what he has just with "natural talent" and a regular footballers work ethic

Also, Messi has adapted his game and improved various skills (passing, weak foot, free kick ability - whereas Ronaldo has regressed on this front), showing that he works hard on his game and has the same obsession as Ronaldo, he's just quieter about it.
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I think when people mention talent vs hard work in the Messi vs Cristiano comparison is not to knock on Messi's dedication and professionalism. He's someone who often gets credited for not diving as much as most superstars, even through harsh tackles, he's never missed a training, and he's shown consistent improvement. However, even before Messi kicked a ball professionally for Barcelona, people knew he was going to be special. The Juan Gamper game against Juventus, you had Capello already saying he had never seen a player like him. Even after his first game in Argentina where he got a red under a minute, people just knew he was special. Cristiano, I first saw him for Portugal in 2004, and he was just another showboating young talent without much end-product or intelligence in his game. He didn't stand out like Messi did. If anything, Rooney was the standout talent around that time. When Messi was 4-1 up on Cristiano in Ballon d'Or, I think most people never expected the race to be at 5-5 now. So they're both incredibly talented, they're both insanely hard-workers, but Cristiano obviously had to take more time and dig deeper to match Messi's output. He'll never be the player Messi is, but at least statistically and on an individual level, he doesn't have much to envy one of the most talented and greatest players in the world.
 
United never give up said:
Everyone always says Messi vs Ronaldo = Talent vs Hard work

But I don't think people give Messi credit for how hard he must work

After all he's a 5ft 6 individual in the modern day super athletic sport that is football, he isn't naturally gifted in an athletic sense such as Ronaldo yet he's managed to remain fit and firing, match after match, season after season for about 14 years.

The fact that his career at the very top has been so much longer than other players with God gifted talent e.g. Ronaldinho is a testament to his determination too.

Messi, like Ronaldo, must also have a ridiculous drive and work ethic. I bet his work ethic is actually equal/very similar to Ronaldo's. You don't achieve what he has just with "natural talent" and a regular footballers work ethic

Also, Messi has adapted his game and improved various skills (passing, weak foot, free kick ability - whereas Ronaldo has regressed on this front), showing that he works hard on his game and has the same obsession as Ronaldo, he's just quieter about it.
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I agree to an extent, he has improved his game notably in those aspects you mentioned, but before the last treble season he was slightly overweight and had a terrible diet - I remember reading that he mostly ate margherita pizzas and doritos and he was being sick before and during matches. He only hired a nutritionist after the WC in 2014, which is a bit ridiculous considering he is the best player in the most popular sport in the world. Seen some people say he's a bit overweight at the moment though I've not noticed it myself.

I also think Messi is a naturally gifted athlete; his strength, acceleration and low centre of gravity allow him to be such a devastating dribbler allied with his ridiculous close control. If you put Messi in a prime Ronaldo's body he wouldn't be able to go past players like he did when he was in his prime.
 
VorZakone said:
He and Ronaldo are shitting on anyone else from the last 30 years in terms of consistency and stats.
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so are lewandowski, aubameyang and kane. Pointless to compare stats across eras...
 
VorZakone said:
He and Ronaldo are shitting on anyone else from the last 30 years in terms of consistency and stats.
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Messi is easily the best I've seen but there must be perspective. Instead of hurrying to crown them as 'aliens' and completely unprecedented, one must have perspective.

A) Did previous greats play for ''super teams" that accumulated the best talent and were at an elite level for 10 plus years? B) Don't they benefit from the benefits arising from advancements of sports science?

I don't know Maradona very well as a footballer but wouldn't his league career benefit for playing in today's Madrid or Barca? Similarly, wouldn't Messi perform better at the world cup if he was able get away with under performing in the league, or even play less during the club season?
 
As for the performance, it's just typical Messi. He makes phenomenal things that would be rarities for anyone else seem routine and reguar. There's noone like him.
 
Messi's freekicks are unbelieavable these days , its always a threat or a goal , he is having a great conversion rate
 
I think I may already have posted this in the thread, but what a phenomenal way to spend 9 minutes of your life.

It's hard to imagine anyone ever bringing more joy to this sport.

 
Arbitrium said:
I think I may already have posted this in the thread, but what a phenomenal way to spend 9 minutes of your life.

It's hard to imagine anyone ever bringing more joy to this sport.

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In my lifetime only Ronaldinho and the C.Ronaldo of 2003 to early 2006 entertained me as much as Messi, but while those two were the masters of skills and tricks, Messi can entertain by just keeping it simple, it seems like he's been around forever and hasn't even turned 31 yet, thanks god there's still so much more to come from him
 
Luke1995 said:
In my lifetime only Ronaldinho and the C.Ronaldo of 2003 to early 2006 entertained me as much as Messi, but while those two were the masters of skills and tricks, Messi can entertain by just keeping it simple, it seems like he's been around forever and hasn't even turned 31 yet, thanks god there's still so much more to come from him
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I have this same feeling with C. Ronaldo who I remember from Euro 2004. That's almost 14 years ago!
 
VorZakone said:
I have this same feeling with C. Ronaldo who I remember from Euro 2004. That's almost 14 years ago!
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His United debut will turn 15 years this August while the Moscow game is soon to be 10 years... for me even though he started later, Messi's career seems longer because in the early 2000's even before he broke into Barcelona's C team there were already reports on how he would be the next great thing. Ronaldo's Sporting days were quite anonymous
 
How Ronaldo has won the Ballon d'Or the same number of times as Messi, i do not know.

The complete player and dream teammate.
 
Smithy_123 said:
How Ronaldo has won the Ballon d'Or the same number of times as Messi, i do not know.

The complete player and dream teammate.
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To be fair to Ronaldo he outscored Messi plenty of times and it's not like he never gets assists either, he gets plenty.

I do agree overall Messi is the better player, the best ever in fact. But Ronaldo has had seasons better than Messi.

Ronaldo has won it twice when Messi deserved it and Messi won it in 2010? when Ronaldo deserved it. Should be 6-4. But because of the sheer weight of the CL it is 5-5.
 
harms said:
What? I've seen people argue that Xavi, Iniesta and Sneijder deserved it that year, but never Ronaldo.
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Mmmm wrong year then. Off topic but I agree with the Sneijder part though.
 
How good were Pele and Maradona with freekicks anyway ? Messi has them beat there.
 
Luke1995 said:
How good were Pele and Maradona with freekicks anyway ? Messi has them beat there.
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Maradona was one of the best ever, and a master of scoring from "too close to get it up and down again".
 
Barca would really be fecked without him. they're lucky he's never injured given how rarely they rest him.
 
His 600 goals in one picture

DXdqkSHXkAAegae.jpg


129 goals against the Spanish top 5 (Real, Atletico, Valencia, Athletic and Sevilla). Mental
 
Ishdalar said:
His 600 goals in one picture

DXdqkSHXkAAegae.jpg


129 goals against the Spanish top 5 (Real, Atletico, Valencia, Athletic and Sevilla). Mental
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Incredible player. Chelsea must be his bogey team having only recently scored his first goal against them on his ninth attempt.
 
Ishdalar said:
His 600 goals in one picture

DXdqkSHXkAAegae.jpg


129 goals against the Spanish top 5 (Real, Atletico, Valencia, Athletic and Sevilla). Mental
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Simply incredible. 25 goals against Real Madrid is nuts.

Bole Top said:
Barca would really be fecked without him. they're lucky he's never injured given how rarely they rest him.
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He rests during games. He's a very clever player when it comes to managing his efforts. This is why he can play so much
 
Saw this in Twitter: After 27 rounds, Messi leads La Liga in goals, assists, passes before the assist, shots on goal, completed dribbles, and chances created.
They forgot to add 'shots off post' as well.

Decent player!
 
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