Maybe it’s come with age. Once the player in his 30’s, will definitely loss extra few yards of pace to dribble past opponents. I’ve seen the massive decline in Ronaldinho’s dribbling too back in those days.
Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
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Maybe it’s come with age. Once the player in his 30’s, will definitely loss extra few yards of pace to dribble past opponents. I’ve seen the massive decline in Ronaldinho’s dribbling too back in those days.
When it comes down to Ronaldinho, pretty sure it wasn't just an age thing.
Might have declined but still the best dribbler in world football.
Yes but we don’t have many great dribblers who could maintain same level of dribbling in their 30s I suppose. Pace is one key factor IMO. (Brazil Ronaldo and Maradona are the other notable examples, but yeh they do have other probs too)
Very true, do you think Messi will be able to consistently hurt the elite teams without his dribbling though? After all, he doesn't have as good a supporting cast as Ronaldo (if you swapped Messi/Ronaldo's clubs I believe that the gap between them would be bigger)
The classic ‘feinting, running past and leaving a player for dead dribble’ is more seldom seen after 30. It’s also incredibly difficult to do against a disciplined and compact team. Messi did at least once yesterday, but what he did a lot, was feinting to give himself time and space to execute a pass. He’s brilliant at that, like Maradona was at 34.
He was their best player by a mile. He wasn't out of this world by any means, but when rest of his teammates play like they did last night, his performance can be regarded more than good. The difference between him and the likes of Suarez, Paulinho, etc. was night and day. You cannot expect even Messi do to anything more than he did last night. He was pretty mich their only threat and creativity during the entire game.
LOL wtf hahahah
There isn't much you can do when you've got 2 or 3 guys around you everytime you've got the ball, and with the other team having a 4-4 line well closed without spaces.
They know they can't even let him breathe. And his partners have no ability to generate spaces on their own.
He still is the best dribbler in the world, but of course he's lost pace. Anyways, had been Messi's 2011 version and he wouldn't have been much different given what Chelsea has donde tactically.
They know they can't even let him breathe. And his partners have no ability to generate spaces on their own.
He still is the best dribbler in the world, but of course he's lost pace. Anyways, had been Messi's 2011 version and he wouldn't have been much different given what Chelsea has donde tactically.
he was completely alone there. zero support, zero options. player he passes to can only pass the ball back to him because the whole team was devoid of any kind of creativity and movements. no player can perform better in such circumstances yet he did his part.
if he wasn't at the pitch, I'm convinced Chelsea would've won comfortably. Hazard is significantly better than anything they had on the pitch.
if he wasn't at the pitch, I'm convinced Chelsea would've won comfortably. Hazard is significantly better than anything they had on the pitch.
With Coutinho I think things would've been different.
And things will certainly be different next month, when Chelsea will have to go looking for a goal. Even more if FCB scores first.
And things will certainly be different next month, when Chelsea will have to go looking for a goal. Even more if FCB scores first.
It's crazy to think that there was a time when Messi was better than what he currently is now but it's the truth.
An average game for him and still nobody can do what he does. Best player ever.
Yeah don't get the criticism, thought he was Barca's best player by a mile. The weight he puts on his passes as well. Love the little maestro except when he plays against us of course.
Definitely. he still has the ball control, passing, playmaking and finishing. But he just won't be as good without burst of pace whenever he try to dribble past players.
But I thought Barca still has a very strong support cast... they are leading the La Liga as comfortably as City in Premier league...
Could just be you, he is still one of the best at take ons in Europe.
This is him for La Liga, but while he's had better seasons in the past in regards to take ons, he's still comfortably one of the best in all of Europe:
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/2...5375/PlayerStatistics/Spain-La-Liga-2017-2018
Experience and simply being a Messi may play a part too.
Don't need to dribble if you can just flawlessly make intelligent and creative movements, positioning and passes.
Don't need to dribble if you can just flawlessly make intelligent and creative movements, positioning and passes.
Yes because his playmaking is superb.
It is age. You lose just that extra little bit of zip you had and it's not the same anymore. I think Messi will move more towards becoming almost a complete playmaker as his career moves on.
More than an age thing, I think he is a little bit overweight. Not by much, maybe just a couple kilos, but for people with Messi's biotype, that's a lot.
The first thing to go with age is probably your top speed, but Messi has never been fast. What he has is amazing acceleration, lightning fast change of direction, and those are affected by weight more than anything else.
Maybe but I feel people often underestimate the impact of age. Apart from top speed and acceleration you lose that little bit of extra agility/burst strength. I think he probably realizes this and maybe doesn't see much value in losing weight and keep dribbling when he can just move his game to be a playmaker splitting defenses and what not.
It will be interesting to see his later years and I wonder how much deeper he will actually play. He might totally change his game to the mould of Scholes/Pirlo.
He has the tools but he would need to double or even triple his defensive work-rate from current state, and its just difficult to see him accepting that.
He will probably become more of a poacher type as he ages.
For most players maybe but he is Messi so I wonder if he would be the first of his kind at his level. Just someone who hangs around the attacking midfield area carving out chances and splitting defenses while occasionally popping up with a goal. Let the youngsters do all the running around in front of him while he pulls the strings.
That would be a total waste of his passing and playmaking. He will get slower with age and he doesn't have the size to compensate for that.
Messi will age like Giggs....except better. Depending on if he truly wants too....but yeah, he'll casually go about his way.
What exactly is that based on? Giggs was a freak in how well he aged. I highly doubt a player like Messi (who have played so many games at such a high intensity) will be playing till he's 38
He is one of the best goal scorers ever so moving him away from the opposing goal would be silly. And I do not mean him being a pure poacher but, a better version of late career Del Piero or Totti.
He is one of the best goal scorers but likely the best passer/playmaker so I would still move him behind the strikers.
He'll just play the same role as he does now until he retires imo
There's going to be no need at all for Messi to move back into a position deeper than #10 any time in the next 3-5yrs unless injury befalls him or his fitness completely falls off a cliff.
Messi, when everything is stripped away, is a #10, and even in a declined state, he has physical attributes far beyond some of the greatest to ever play in that role. For example, Messi at even half the physical fitness he has now would still be a faster and more mobile player than a Riquelme, Valeron, Valderrama who were all notoriously slow play-makers with sublime passing ability and technical acumen. Unlike Valderrama and Riquelme, Messi does not have obscene upper-body strength, but what he does have in its stead to compensate, or probably even better, is one of the lowest centres of gravity and a level of core balance few in the history of the sport come close to matching. This will enable him to pass, give-and-go, and as nonchalantly as any of the aforementioned, endlessly link play whilst riding tackles and slipping by opposing players who are forced to over commit on their challenges.
Of course, Messi is likely never going to be that slow, as a worse version of himself, he'll still be a more explosive athlete than countless great #10's were at their absolute peaks. Players like Totti, Bochini, and Rivera could only dream of being so able to leave a man on his backside due to a sudden and complete shift in momentum and bodyweight as a declining Messi.
I think once people get over comparing Messi to Messi, there will be a realisation that well into his 30's, Messi will have attributes that will still be par with some of the greatest #10's there has been. The likes of Baggio, pre-injury Del Piero, Dalglish and even Platini are thereabouts what Messi will be for a good few years yet.
It's only the superhuman freaks, who had both the technical prowess and the physical gifts that he is branching away from now, the likes of Cruyff, Maradona, Himself, Ronaldinho, Kubala, Albert etc. etc. who were challenging enough to even catch or contest with physically that are becoming out of sight as templates.
The point of this post is to give some perspective about Messi's declining state. Even now, he has physical gifts that comfortably slot him into the category that matches the peak output some of the best #10's had at their very best. It stands to reason, then, that if these players could have the storied careers they did, Messi's new chapter, although different from the freak he once was, can be equally as impressive given he is par or superior to nearly every player mentioned from a technical point of view.
He's absolutely years away from being a spent force, imo. His biggest enemy (if injuries don't ruin him) will be his own motivations to play and push himself with so many games under his belt by that point in time. After such a long and demanding career, one wouldn't blame Messi for calling it quits before 35, damaged body or not. He can go on to have a strong career in its own right as a classic #10 or an Iniesta style hybrid for the next half decade if he so chooses. He'll still be comfortably contesting as one of the best players in the world in either role, too.
Messi, when everything is stripped away, is a #10, and even in a declined state, he has physical attributes far beyond some of the greatest to ever play in that role. For example, Messi at even half the physical fitness he has now would still be a faster and more mobile player than a Riquelme, Valeron, Valderrama who were all notoriously slow play-makers with sublime passing ability and technical acumen. Unlike Valderrama and Riquelme, Messi does not have obscene upper-body strength, but what he does have in its stead to compensate, or probably even better, is one of the lowest centres of gravity and a level of core balance few in the history of the sport come close to matching. This will enable him to pass, give-and-go, and as nonchalantly as any of the aforementioned, endlessly link play whilst riding tackles and slipping by opposing players who are forced to over commit on their challenges.
Of course, Messi is likely never going to be that slow, as a worse version of himself, he'll still be a more explosive athlete than countless great #10's were at their absolute peaks. Players like Totti, Bochini, and Rivera could only dream of being so able to leave a man on his backside due to a sudden and complete shift in momentum and bodyweight as a declining Messi.
I think once people get over comparing Messi to Messi, there will be a realisation that well into his 30's, Messi will have attributes that will still be par with some of the greatest #10's there has been. The likes of Baggio, pre-injury Del Piero, Dalglish and even Platini are thereabouts what Messi will be for a good few years yet.
It's only the superhuman freaks, who had both the technical prowess and the physical gifts that he is branching away from now, the likes of Cruyff, Maradona, Himself, Ronaldinho, Kubala, Albert etc. etc. who were challenging enough to even catch or contest with physically that are becoming out of sight as templates.
The point of this post is to give some perspective about Messi's declining state. Even now, he has physical gifts that comfortably slot him into the category that matches the peak output some of the best #10's had at their very best. It stands to reason, then, that if these players could have the storied careers they did, Messi's new chapter, although different from the freak he once was, can be equally as impressive given he is par or superior to nearly every player mentioned from a technical point of view.
He's absolutely years away from being a spent force, imo. His biggest enemy (if injuries don't ruin him) will be his own motivations to play and push himself with so many games under his belt by that point in time. After such a long and demanding career, one wouldn't blame Messi for calling it quits before 35, damaged body or not. He can go on to have a strong career in its own right as a classic #10 or an Iniesta style hybrid for the next half decade if he so chooses. He'll still be comfortably contesting as one of the best players in the world in either role, too.
Stunning first half from Messi in the Girona Home game today, assisted the first goal for Suarez, scored the second goal after opening space in a tight area with Girona players, scored the third goal in a freekick going below the wall and created the fourth goal by running very fast with the ball, then gave it to Coutinho who gave it to Suarez. In short, Messi was involved in everything.
He kicks a football very well.
The free kick was clever.
This post was a very interesting read, thank you for taking the time to write all that, it's really insightful. I wonder if even a declining Messi will be able to win more individual awards, probably only Neymar has more prime years ahead of him which would even match Messi's future.
No player ever can do what this man doing he is an alien absolutely not human. What a talent.
Anyone knows how many career goals Messi has ? Only official matches including Argentina. I think he'll play for longer than Ronaldo due to age and although Pelé is said to have 1283 goals, if we talk about official matches only, he's got about 700 goals and i'm pretty sure Messi and Ronaldo are close to it.
Today commentator on my stream mentioned that Messi is 2-3 goals away from clocking 600 goals in his career.