LGBT issues in Football

Brightonian said:
Neither is ok. You're only calling the woman a whore because of her gender, and you're only calling someone a homophobic slur because of their sexuality. Neither person can change that thing about themselves, and neither deserves to be insulted on that basis.
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I agree, neither is good or right. My only argument is that there are different levels to this (and none of them belong in football).
 
Brightonian said:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and, as a gay man, say that the nickname 'rent boys' for Chelsea is only very tangentially homophobic. It's a reference to the fact that their modern fans are glory supporters following Abramovic's money.
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It's got nothing to do with Abramovic, I've been called a "Chelsea rent boy" by people since the early 90s.
 
I think I might know who the culprit was.

 
NotThatSoph said:
Billy Gilmour is a Chelsea player. One of the hilarious nicknames witty football fans have for Chelsea players and fans is rent boys, which is a homophobic slur indicating that someone is a [typically young] male prostitute who sells himself to other [older] men.
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Is it?

I must admit, i expected something way way worse when i first saw the stories
 
duffer said:
It's got nothing to do with Abramovic, I've been called a "Chelsea rent boy" by people since the early 90s.
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Is it true the origin of it comes from a Chelsea fan/member of a hooligan group being caught by police doing a raid with one? Or is it because a nearby area is a pickup point for male prostitutes?
 
Chelsea fans were called rent boys way before Abramovich. It was just a way of calling them gay. I went to the United Chelsea FA cup final when we thrashed them 4-0 when I was a kid and it was popular then.
 
Oranges038 said:
Is it true the origin of it comes from a Chelsea fan/member of a hooligan group being caught by police doing a raid with one? Or is it because a nearby area is a pickup point for male prostitutes?
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MarylandMUFan said:
Do you know where that originated? Seems strange that it was going on before Abramovic.
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I have no idea of it's origins, I just know it pre-dates the "Roman era" by decades.
 
Green_Red said:
I guess you could say that every time a heterosexual man uses a term deemed homophobic when it isn't being used in that context could be classed as heterophobic. Fear of heterosexual men? I don't know, I'm not trying to be offensive, just trying to understand why a term "rent boy" is considered homophobic when calling a woman a whore isn't considered a slur against a woman's sexuality. Is there a little bit of sexism in terms of its not OK to call a man a rent boy because that's homophobic, but it's OK to call a woman a whore because "that's just a job that a woman does, not who they are". I don't literally mean it's OK to call a woman a whore by the way, I've just never seen an investigation into someone calling someone else a whore before. We see people use the word "puta" all the time, but never a single bbc article, not once... I know this is controversial and people will read this as "ignorant prick", but I am ignorant and trying to understand it.

Someone has compared the use of the N word to the use of "rent boy", is that serious? Isn't it on the same level of anti-vaxxers comparing Jews being forced to wear the star of David with covid passports?
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It's the intention. Chelsea fans are called rent boys to imply they are gay not that they sell sexual services to middle aged women. Heterophoria is a nonsense. But misogyny is alive and kicking in football.
 
Relem said:
Tbh, thinking about it more, it's offensive to gay people because it's saying being gay is an insult. I'm from a generation where "gay" was the most common school yard insult, and it doesn't seem like a big deal on the basis of that experience, but maybe it should be. I've got a my first kid due in two months, and if they decide they are gay in 20 years time, id rather there wasn't still the negative association with it.
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If you think 20 year old heterosexual men just suddenly “decide” to be gay, then you are very much part of the problem.

And would you rather there wasn’t still negative association in 20 years time for your child’s benefit, or for your own benefit? So you’re not brought to shame over it?

I actually cannot believe what I just read.
 
Green_Red said:
What if its literal. Let's not forget that a rent boy is a homosexual male prostitute, rightly ot wrongly, that's what the term refers too, no homophobia intended. Is it wrong to say Chelsea supporters suck dixk for money? What's homophobic about that? If we called Chelsea supporters "granny gigilos", would that have been OK? It's purely that it is about homosexual men that its an issue?
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I'm gonna suggest you've been on the booze since full time after the win against Leeds!
 
Brightonian said:
Oh really, I didn't realise. So what is the origin of it then?
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No idea! There's fans in here that have been calling Chelsea fans it since before Roman took over. Maybe they could shed some light.

I would imagine it's a simple as "being gay is bad, I want to offend you so I will call you gay".

I'm kinda in a glass house on this, I used to call things "gay" (to mean shit) when I was a kid.
 
Green_Red said:
What if its literal. Let's not forget that a rent boy is a homosexual male prostitute, rightly ot wrongly, that's what the term refers too, no homophobia intended. Is it wrong to say Chelsea supporters suck dixk for money? What's homophobic about that? If we called Chelsea supporters "granny gigilos", would that have been OK? It's purely that it is about homosexual men that its an issue?
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It's homophobic because we are saying rent boy (aka gay) as opposed to gigolo. If you are implying gay is bad, that's ultimately homophobic is it not? If u went to OT with a gay mate and everyone's chanting Chelsea rentboys, the punchline is essentially "gay is lame" hence the insult. Wouldn't that be uncomfortable?
 
Green_Red said:
What if its literal. Let's not forget that a rent boy is a homosexual male prostitute, rightly ot wrongly, that's what the term refers too, no homophobia intended. Is it wrong to say Chelsea supporters suck dixk for money? What's homophobic about that. If we called Chelsea supporters "granny gigilos", would that have been OK? It's purely that it is about homosexual men that its an issue?
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I'm happy to be corrected, but I don't think a gay male prostitute would actually want to be referred to as a "rent boy", just as a female prostitute wouldn't want to be referred to as a "slag" or a "whore". They're derogatory terms, and if you're hurling "rent boy" at a player, as happened with Billy Gilmour, then clearly it isn't meant to literally acknowledge that Billy Gilmour is a sex worker. It is being used as a putdown, and that putdown is clearly implicit that homosexuality is a bad thing.
 
Ultimately alot of woke sh1t is bollocks, but at the same time, I probably don't think there should be a space for obvious prejudice anymore.
 
UncleBob said:
How so?
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I'm sorry. You're asking me why a derogatory slur for a young male prostitute selling himself to older men, a slur that is almost exclusively directed at people who aren't young boys/men who sell their body to older men, is homophobic?
 
Green_Red said:
What if its literal. Let's not forget that a rent boy is a homosexual male prostitute, rightly ot wrongly, that's what the term refers too, no homophobia intended. Is it wrong to say Chelsea supporters suck dixk for money? What's homophobic about that? If we called Chelsea supporters "granny gigilos", would that have been OK? It's purely that it is about homosexual men that its an issue?
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And there are other insulting terms too. Bin dippers, dole takers, hubcap stealers, victims, candle worshippers, all of that is common throughout football to refer to scousers. All clubs have insulting terms that fans of other clubs use to rile them. None are particularly more unacceptable than others. TBH, all of them are distasteful.
 
Relem said:
It's homophobic because we are saying rent boy (aka gay) as opposed to gigolo. If you are implying gay is bad, that's ultimately homophobic is it not? If u went to OT with a gay mate and everyone's chanting Chelsea rentboys, the punchline is essentially "gay is lame" hence the insult. Wouldn't that be uncomfortable?
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Does anyone actually say gigolo? Doesn't people just say male prostitute?
 
duffer said:
No idea! There's fans in here that have been calling Chelsea fans it since before Roman took over. Maybe they could shed some light.
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I think the area has a bit of an LGBT history but I don't know much about it. I wouldn't have thought it was notable enough to have made it into a chant, but then again there's no 'Soho FC'. Luckily I'm too lazy to do any research that might force me to definitively retract my previous opinion.
 
Brightonian said:
I think the area has a bit of an LGBT history but I don't know much about it. I wouldn't have thought it was notable enough to have made it into a chant, but then again there's no 'Soho FC'. Luckily I'm too lazy to do any research that might force me to definitively retract my previous opinion.
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It's even older than the 90s, I'm pretty sure. Has nothing to do with the current owner.
 
Brightonian said:
I think the area has a bit of an LGBT history but I don't know much about it. I wouldn't have thought it was notable enough to have made it into a chant, but then again there's no 'Soho FC'. Luckily I'm too lazy to do any research that might force me to definitively retract my previous opinion.
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Yeah, I think maybe Chelsea (the place) does have that LGBT history.

I remember a game against a Olympiacos a few years ago and their away fans were chanting (in English) "Gay, gay, you are all gay". It was so ludicrous that it was almost funny, I just looked and it's on youtube (I won't post it here). Not sure if they sing that against other English sides or not.
 
duffer said:
I remember a game against a Olympiacos a few years ago and their away fans were chanting (in English) "Gay, gay, you are all gay". It was so ludicrous that it was almost funny, I just looked and it's on youtube (I won't post it here). Not sure if they sing that against other English sides or not.
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:lol: That's exceptional, I'd missed that somehow. No wonder they have such an intimidating reputation with material like that...
 
NotThatSoph said:
I'm sorry. You're asking me why a derogatory slur for a young male prostitute selling himself to older men, a slur that is almost exclusively directed at people who aren't young boys/men who sell their body to older men, is homophobic?
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Could you care to elaborate as to why it's homophobic?
 
UncleBob said:
Could you care to elaborate as to why it's homophobic?
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Pretty sure I just did. You're free to disagree, I'm not going to debate it. I'm also not going to debate whether or not faggott is homophobic, just in case you ever feel like asking.
 
duffer said:
Here's the link because it seems it might make you laugh!

I only wish the Chelsea fans had responded with "Gay, gay, All of us are gay".
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asking the important questions

 
Green_Red said:
So the issue isn't that it's just homophobic, it's that it is used to degrade or denigrate someone. The issue for homosexual people is they don't like that their sexual orientation is used as the putdown. Consider me educated.
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I wish that all the derogatory terms used for other teams' fans, and people from other regions, would stop being used. City fans call United fans "rags". "Scum" is also commonly used for local rivals. None of it is positive, and the hostility from it spills over into political discussion as well, poisoning the whole country and not just football.
 
UncleBob said:
You just stated: " I'm also not going to debate whether or not faggott is homophobic "
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Yes. They are homophobic for the same reasons, I'm not going to debate those reasons with people who pretend not to get it. If you want to claim that faggott isn't homophobic then go on. If not, then you know why I think rent boy is homophobic.
 
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