Let's not buy Raiola players again - ever

T00lsh3d said:
Pogba is playing at United (when fit) and is certainly well paid. So the only other issue is, are united good enough for Pogba/Pogba’s ambitions? Does that qualify as ‘something to say’? Does that necessitate him talking about the employer publicly in a disparaging manner? I don’t believe so
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Of course it qualifies as something to say, he is basically making the point that almost everyone on this forum has made and agrees with. With the small difference that Pogba has a timeline that doesn't match with a long rebuild whether we are talking about his age or his contract. If as Ole said this is a 3 years rebuild then it means that Pogba will be out of contract when the rebuild is supposed to be done which means that he has to make a decision between now and then, he can sign a new contract and gamble on United rebuilding successfully or he can decide to join a club that currently fits with his short and mid term silverware ambitions.

He is talking to the club here and telling them to show some intent, we may not like it but from his point of view it makes total sense.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Or maybe him saying Wenger had no balls in the transfer market, Klopp was a piece of shit and Pep was a cowardly dog could be more of a reason.
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Which of his players would move to these teams? His top 3 players are Pogba, Insigne and Verratti. And Arsenal dealt with him since they have Mkhitaryan.
 
JPRouve said:
Which of his players would move to these teams? His top 3 players are Pogba, Insigne and Verratti. And Arsenal dealt with him since they have Mkhitaryan.
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The point is Raiola continually insulting key figures in top clubs isn't going to do his clients any good and hopefully after more of his outbursts towards United the club decide never to work with him again. I don't care if he's doing what's best for his client if it's detrimental to how it's affecting our club and no one can deny he isn't having a negative affect.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
The point is Raiola continually insulting key figures in top clubs isn't going to do his clients any good and hopefully after more of his outbursts towards United the club decide never to work with him again. I don't care if he's doing what's best for his client if it's detrimental to how it's affecting our club and no one can deny he isn't having a negative affect.
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That's not the point, the point was to pretend that clubs are avoiding him which is blatantly wrong.
 
bonothom said:
You mean teams that give him the most money. Raiola is everything that is wrong with football now. United made a huge mistake in ever dealing with him and the players he represents. United should never do business with him again.
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You think Dortmund paid the most money for Haaland?
 
He is clearly one of the the best agents in football.
 
JPRouve said:
Of course it qualifies as something to say, he is basically making the point that almost everyone on this forum has made and agrees with. With the small difference that Pogba has a timeline that doesn't match with a long rebuild whether we are talking about his age or his contract. If as Ole said this is a 3 years rebuild then it means that Pogba will be out of contract when the rebuild is supposed to be done which means that he has to make a decision between now and then, he can sign a new contract and gamble on United rebuilding successfully or he can decide to join a club that currently fits with his short and mid term silverware ambitions.

He is talking to the club here and telling them to show some intent, we may not like it but from his point of view it makes total sense.
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He is talking to the press here. I would have no problem him saying that behind closed doors to the club. He is not though, he talking publicly
 
T00lsh3d said:
He is talking to the press here. I would have no problem him saying that behind closed doors to the club. He is not though, he talking publicly
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No, he is talking through the press, the press is only a medium. And he isn't going to only say it behind closed doors, it doesn't have the same effect. The point here is to put United in the public light, if there isn't a show of intent, he will be able to claim that he told United what needed to be done but they(United) didn't listen, when you do these things behind closed doors you don't control the public narrative and it's very easy for a club to brief the press and create their own angle which happens all the time, who do you think is the source of player X demanded too much or agent Y is greedy.

People need to realize that in all of this, we, the public observers, are tools. Both sides will try to use public pressure in order to gain what they want to gain and create a narrative that is favorable for their side.
 
Zen86 said:
Which coincidentally was the best move for Raiola
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So you know how much Riola was offered by each club? Willing to bet Riola makes more money taking Haaland to Juve before a PL move

Seems to me people are misplacing anger. If we were being run correctly and looked like making UCL Haaland likely would have signed for United and Riola wouldn't be making noise about Pogba.

He is doing his job, United need to sort there shit out and Riola isn’t the only agent who will be thinking what he said.
 
I think people get a bit carried away by their dislike for Raiola. Piecing together the various accusations in this thread you could get the impression that the Haaland signed away his power of attorney to Raiola, so he can pick a club and line his own pockets.
And all that happening with Haaland Sr being a former footballer himself.
Looking at Haaland's careful career steps thus far I reckon father and son have a pretty good idea themselves what's good for the lad.
 
Cassidy said:
So you know how much Riola was offered by each club? Willing to bet Riola makes more money taking Haaland to Juve before a PL move

Seems to me people are misplacing anger. If we were being run correctly and looked like making UCL Haaland likely would have signed for United and Riola wouldn't be making noise about Pogba.

He is doing his job, United need to sort there shit out and Riola isn’t the only agent who will be thinking what he said.
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Oh I’m not angry, I couldn’t care less about Haaland in all honesty. But the guy is a parasite that we should avoid, an opinion I’ve held long before this latest circus ever started.

That’s my 2 cents, and you can believe whatever you want to believe.
 
JPRouve said:
No, he is talking through the press, the press is only a medium. And he isn't going to only say it behind closed doors, it doesn't have the same effect. The point here is to put United in the public light, if there isn't a show of intent, he will be able to claim that he told United what needed to be done but they(United) didn't listen, when you do these things behind closed doors you don't control the public narrative and it's very easy for a club to brief the press and create their own angle which happens all the time, who do you think is the source of player X demanded too much or agent Y is greedy.

People need to realize that in all of this, we, the public observers, are tools. Both sides will try to use public pressure in order to gain what they want to gain and create a narrative that is favorable for their side.
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I am well aware that the message is aimed at United, but I disagree that it needs to be public. Why does it matter what the public’s opinion of United’s spin is? Plus the message is profoundly disingenuous. I suppose we’ll just disagree on this but I think it should be done either behind closed doors or with a bit more class. Don’t forget, this is an associate who has paid you and your clients vast sums over the past few years - several clients - several transactions. I don’t think it’s too much to expect him to behave a little better.
 
JPRouve said:
That's not the point, the point was to pretend that clubs are avoiding him which is blatantly wrong.
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Is it too much of an exaggeration to think Raiola insulting key figures in the footballing world wouldn't have a negative effect in any future dealings? Do you think United should still have dealings with him after everything that's been happening for the last couple of years with Pogba? All Raiola brings to United is negativity. Isn't it time to move on from all that?
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Is it too much of an exaggeration to think Raiola insulting key figures in the footballing world wouldn't have a negative effect in any future dealings? Do you think United should still have dealings with him after everything that's been happening for the last couple of years with Pogba? All Raiola brings to United is negativity. Isn't it time to move on from all that?
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Riola isnt the one who has brought the negativity. As stated above if the club was being run correctly and we were competitive we wouldnt have had many issues with Pogba
 
Pogba has been one of the problems at the club let’s face it. We’ve gotten very little back for our money and the guy is living like a Prince yet has so little to show sporting wise.
 
Thiagoal said:
it makes feel a little nauseous when I see comments like these ( no disrespect) Your comment implies that Pogba has been out performing all of his team mates and is a stand out beacon in the team that deserves better!
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No! It doesn't imply such. Stop putting words that weren't even put or carrying frustrations from your arguments with previous posters. All it implies is we don't need a 26 yr old if the plan is to wait for young players to start blossoming. Our time lines do not match. If he has played shite the past 3 years that's even more reason he's expendable
 
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His agent is trying to get him a move in future and very cleverly blaming club for his clients underperformance.

You’re talking a guy we made fabulously rich, who sabotaged last manager every step of the way and whom a current weak minded manager has allowed to spend majority of his time rehabbing in Dubai, Miami etc.
 
T00lsh3d said:
I am well aware that the message is aimed at United, but I disagree that it needs to be public. Why does it matter what the public’s opinion of United’s spin is? Plus the message is profoundly disingenuous. I suppose we’ll just disagree on this but I think it should be done either behind closed doors or with a bit more class. Don’t forget, this is an associate who has paid you and your clients vast sums over the past few years - several clients - several transactions. I don’t think it’s too much to expect him to behave a little better.
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The public perception is important for Woodward and the board in general, they don't want to see football professionals label United as an unambitious club, they don't want that label to be stuck on the club because it's not good for business. Now the biggest issue is that it's not an empty claim, it's something that many people think and the board has the power to change that by acting ambitiously which is allegedly what Pogba wants, he wants to win trophies with United.
As I said, I don't like it because I'm a fan of United but it makes total sense and it creates a situation where everyone position is somewhat clear and we are the witnesses, behind closed doors the club could make any sort of promises and not respect them but then claim that they were mislead.

Now keep in mind that I get your point, as a fan it makes total sense but as an agent or any professional it doesn't because you want to create leverage, they are in perpetual negotiation and positioning.
 
do.ob said:
Ralf Rangnick, the engineer of Hoffenheim and Leipzig, appears very interested in a new challenge however. And given that he already built two clubs from scratch and doesn't seem to have a problem with working for private owners I'm a bit surprised that United don't appear to be interested in him. He even spent a year studying in England when he was younger.
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I don't think Woodward/Glazers are interested in empowering anyone in a very important role. Even if someone is hired it will be a very restrictive role.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Is it too much of an exaggeration to think Raiola insulting key figures in the footballing world wouldn't have a negative effect in any future dealings? Do you think United should still have dealings with him after everything that's been happening for the last couple of years with Pogba? All Raiola brings to United is negativity. Isn't it time to move on from all that?
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Clubs don't give a damn about it, Real Madrid didn't decide to not deal with United after SAF said that he wouldn't sell them a virus, United won't avoid Dortmund even though they trolled us on a few occasions. These people are professionals and most of them know that they aren't friends, they are opponents, they don't need to like each others they only need to get the best deals for themselves. And agents mainly work for players, their job is to squeeze as much as they can from clubs for the benefit of their clients and their own, conversely clubs goal is to spend as little as possible on players and be as successful as possible while doing it.
 
JPRouve said:
Clubs don't give a damn about it, Real Madrid didn't decide to not deal with United after SAF said that he wouldn't sell them a virus, United won't avoid Dortmund even though they trolled us on a few occasions. These people are professionals and most of them know that they aren't friends, they are opponents, they don't need to like each others they only need to get the best deals for themselves. And agents mainly work for players, their job is to squeeze as much as they can from clubs for the benefit of their clients and their own, conversely clubs goal is to spend as little as possible on players and be as successful as possible while doing it.
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When Mkhitaryan left Dortmund there were reports of Raiola throwing around chairs in their office. A year later they signed another client of his and now Haaland. As you've said, it's just business and as long as the player is happy you don't hear a word from Raiola anyway.
I think it's a bit hypocritical how every aspect of football gets commercialized in maximum speed these days, clubs trying to force a super league, players dodging tens of millions in taxes, club officials going to prison and returning as club presidents, but somehow it's the agents who are the root of all evil and who somehow remote control their clients.
 
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do.ob said:
When Mkhitaryan left Dortmund there were reports of Raiola throwing around chairs in Dortmund's office. A year later they signed another client of his and now Haaland. As you've said, it's just business and as long as the player is happy you don't hear a word from Raiola anyway.
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That's a good example. Monaco were wounded when Mendes pushed for a move on deadline day and some reported that they wouldn't deal with him in the future, they are still using him.
 
JPRouve said:
The public perception is important for Woodward and the board in general, they don't want to see football professionals label United as an unambitious club, they don't want that label to be stuck on the club because it's not good for business. Now the biggest issue is that it's not an empty claim, it's something that many people think and the board has the power to change that by acting ambitiously which is allegedly what Pogba wants, he wants to win trophies with United.
As I said, I don't like it because I'm a fan of United but it makes total sense and it creates a situation where everyone position is somewhat clear and we are the witnesses, behind closed doors the club could make any sort of promises and not respect them but then claim that they were mislead.

Now keep in mind that I get your point, as a fan it makes total sense but as an agent or any professional it doesn't because you want to create leverage, they are in perpetual negotiation and positioning.
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Funnily enough, I think it creates the reverse effect in perception. Look at this thread as evidence. Peoples immediate reaction is “look there goes Raiola spouting off again”. Very few people have said, “actually, when that agent says we’d ruin Maradona, maybe that’s a poor reflection on our board”. Which brings me back to the level of class in the message. If he’d said something like, “Paul’s just won the World Cup, he’s a fantastic player in his prime who’d like more than a battle for a europa league spot”, only the most blinkered united fans would disagree with him. The way he attacks the club does nothing to help the public’s perception of him or his player.....in fact it helps the club double down on the ‘greedy agent’ image
 
T00lsh3d said:
Funnily enough, I think it creates the reverse effect in perception. Look at this thread as evidence. Peoples immediate reaction is “look there goes Raiola spouting off again”. Very few people have said, “actually, when that agent says we’d ruin Maradona, maybe that’s a poor reflection on our board”. Which brings me back to the level of class in the message. If he’d said something like, “Paul’s just won the World Cup, he’s a fantastic player in his prime who’d like more than a battle for a europa league spot”, only the most blinkered united fans would disagree with him. The way he attacks the club does nothing to help the public’s perception of him or his player.....in fact it helps the club double down on the ‘greedy agent’ image
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It's natural for fans to react defensively, but bigger picture the message that the team's biggest star is unhappy with the club's progress will find its way into the media and probably be referenced when someone writes a critical article about United.
 
T00lsh3d said:
Funnily enough, I think it creates the reverse effect in perception. Look at this thread as evidence. Peoples immediate reaction is “look there goes Raiola spouting off again”. Very few people have said, “actually, when that agent says we’d ruin Maradona, maybe that’s a poor reflection on our board”. Which brings me back to the level of class in the message. If he’d said something like, “Paul’s just won the World Cup, he’s a fantastic player in his prime who’d like more than a battle for a europa league spot”, only the most blinkered united fans would disagree with him. The way he attacks the club does nothing to help the public’s perception of him or his player.....in fact it helps the club double down on the ‘greedy agent’ image
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He planted the seed, that's the goal. If United don't act accordingly, it will be used against them. An other thing, yes Raiola is classless, on that you are 100% correct.
 
JPRouve said:
He planted the seed, that's the goal. If United don't act accordingly, it will be used against them.
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Are you Raiola's fan? :lol:
I doubt He's this mastermind you potrayed him to be. He's gone overboard with his Maradona & Pele comment. People make mistakes and that particular comment can be used against him as well and will add more reason for the fans to hate on his player, which is detrimental more than anything.
 
Milo2035 said:
At a time when no top players wanted to join us, Raiola brought us Pogba and Zlatan. If anything we should be grateful, really.
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What kind of parallel universe fake news is this?!
 
JPRouve said:
You realize that he isn't struggling to get game time, he is one of the main starters. And reports are often nonsensical particularly around Barcelona and Madrid when they miss on a player, none of the thing that you mentioned make sense Barcelona pay better, they spend more money, they have a bigger tendency to not give time to young players and pursue new shiny players but somehow you try to argue the opposite of their reality. You are talking about a club that wasn't bothered to give time to Tiago Alcantara, Alcacer, André Gomes, who is treating Arthur in the weirdest way and reportedly is trying to ditch Todibo after one season and by the way the latter is what I would have used to convince De Ligt to stay away from Barcelona, they did everything to unsettle a teenager that was guaranteed to play at Toulouse and minutes after signing him were chasing De Ligt. Barcelona have been one of the worst club for young players in the last decade.
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When you analyze it this way - it is hard to not agree with you. But now I am even more pissed at Raiola - if Barca is so horrible to new players, why the feck is Raiola trashing us?! We are not half as bad :)
 
tenpoless said:
Are you Raiola's fan? :lol:
I doubt He's this mastermind you potrayed him to be. He's gone overboard with his Maradona & Pele comment. People make mistakes and that particular comment can be used against him as well and will add more reason for the fans to hate on his player, which is detrimental more than anything.
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I'm not, the part that you seem to emphasize is indeed overboard and is in my opionion a cheapshot but it doesn't actually affects is goal negatively. We are talking about that interview that he gave in italian, his point traveled whether we like the delivery or not.
 
tenpoless said:
Are you Raiola's fan? :lol:
I doubt He's this mastermind you potrayed him to be. He's gone overboard with his Maradona & Pele comment. People make mistakes and that particular comment can be used against him as well and will add more reason for the fans to hate on his player, which is detrimental more than anything.
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No one actually cares about Raiola's precise wording. What people will take away from this and remember is that Pogba is unhappy and should United not invest (significantly) in the squad it will be used as a stick to beat Woodward&co with.
 
Agent fees sould be illegal. Receiving 15 mil euros for a transfer is f***ing ridiculous. Who pay for that? it's minions like you and me.
 
Sultan said:
I don't think Woodward/Glazers are interested in empowering anyone in a very important role. Even if someone is hired it will be a very restrictive role.
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Totally. Which is why if Woody even ever hires a director of football, it won't matter much. All the hopes people have for us getting a DoF, and that person saving us, are futile. Woodward's DoF will be his lackey - he has no interest in giving up even tiny piece of power
 
NewGlory said:
When you analyze it this way - it is hard to not agree with you. But now I am even more pissed at Raiola - if Barca is so horrible to new players, why the feck is Raiola trashing us?! We are not half as bad :)
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Don't take it personally, we are a fallen giant and currently have his biggest client, so he is putting some heat on us. When Ibrahimovic and Maxwell had issues at Barcelona, he was on their back too and Bartomeu said that he hated having to deal with him. With all agents everything is cool until it's not, some will shaft you by surprise and others will do it openly but clubs should be able to anticipate these things, if they are properly run they should know which context will create issues and how to fix it smoothly.
 
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