Leroy Sane watch | Feb 2020: Returning to fitness with City's U23s

Sane hasn't performed for Germany. Your club performance means nothing if you can't do it for the national team. Yes he is fast but besides being fast what else does Sane offer? What other positions can he play? How well does he fit into the german system?

The most important thing is how does he fit into the system and at this moment he doesn't fit into it. Brandt made it to the Confed Cup and won it, he is used to the german system and the german way of playing. Sane isn't. And in a world cup you don't have time for players like that. Lowe uses 3 systems and if your not able to adapt to them then your out.

He's a great talent but Germany is a talented footballing country, He won't be missed.

Also, Brandt ain't slow by no means.
 
Wonder how many of those who now belittle Brandt have actually seen him play. Technically he is much better than Sane and his decision making is more mature. And it is not like Brandt is slow or anything.

I think this is again a case of the British obsession with pace. Sane is great and everything but he is still very, very raw and one dimensional.

Sane has proven himself in a better league and in a far better team. He is playing with top footballers every week. Brandt plays with top footballers only in the national team. Leverkusen are nothing special.
 
Sane has proven himself in a better league and in a far better team. He is playing with top footballers every week. Brandt plays with top footballers only in the national team. Leverkusen are nothing special.

Maybe that's the reason why Löw makes it at least to the semis every tournament and certain nations who try to just put the XI players with the strongest club season on the pitch are deemed underachievers.
 
Maybe that's the reason why Löw makes it at least to the semis every tournament and certain nations who try to just put the XI players with the strongest club season on the pitch are deemed underachievers.

I'm supporting Germany, not England :lol: The PL is better than the Bundesliga though.

My reply had nothing to do with Low. Just explained why Sane is generally rated higher than Brandt.
 
Sane not being in the German squad is a joke! And that's coming from a Utd fan.

How so when he's not an integral part of the team? He's still young and will get his chance in the future. The German team is just as talented as the French one. Stacked!
 
I'm supporting Germany, not England :lol: The PL is better than the Bundesliga though.

My reply had nothing to do with Low. Just explained why Sane is generally rated higher than Brandt.

My point still stands and I didn't get the impression that @Zehner wanted to claim that Brandt is the better player per se, but rather that the two players are closer in terms of ability than some of the posts in this thread might suggest.
 
How so when he's not an integral part of the team? He's still young and will get his chance in the future. The German team is just as talented as the French one. Stacked!
I'm German and it's not. Sane is the most talented out of this squad, we don't have the talent of France. We are in a bad state currently, we still depend on the older generation

It's actually quite a Scandal right now
 
My point still stands and I didn't get the impression that @Zehner wanted to claim that Brandt is the better player per se, but rather that the two players are closer in terms of ability than some of the posts in this thread might suggest.

My point stands too. Let's first see whether Brandt can flourish in one of the top teams in Europe before claiming there isn't much between him and Sane.

That said, I understand perfectly well that Brandt might suit Low's tactics better and is more reliable right now. Sane could be brilliant or shocking, Brandt is a solid 7/10. Still think it is a mistake by Low though as Sane has different qualities to the other attacking players.
 
I'm German and it's not. Sane is the most talented out of this squad, we don't have the talent of France. We are in a bad state currently, we still depend on the older generation

It's actually quite a Scandal right now

Same here, think Sane is more talented than any German player right now. Low isn't convinced that Sane is ready though. Maybe he knows better.
 
This is madness. Not seeing him play a single game within our best line up is doing my head in right now.
 
Great for City to keep him fresh aslong as it doesn’t knock the lads confidence.
 
He's been poor every time I've seen him playing for Germany so I'm not surprised at all. Germany have plenty of strong players so I don't get the outrage.
 
Germany ain’t the only national team that does this. Brasil, France, Italy, Argentina all have done and will continue to to it. Your performance for your club doesn’t guarantee you a spot on your national team; it only gets you called up. If your performance don’t matchup, you risk the chance of getting dropped.
 
I'm German and it's not. Sane is the most talented out of this squad, we don't have the talent of France. We are in a bad state currently, we still depend on the older generation

It's actually quite a Scandal right now

Same here, think Sane is more talented than any German player right now. Low isn't convinced that Sane is ready though. Maybe he knows better.

Disagree. I neither think France has a more talented young player pool nor do I think that Sane is the most talented youngster. Leroy definitely had the best season of Germany's youngsters, that's true, but I still think that many others outperform him in terms of technique and intelligence. And these things are more important than anything else including pace. I've been saying the whole year that Brandt is more talented than Sane (and Bailey, too, by the way) because he can do things with a football that Sane can't.

Sane is spectacular just like Dembele, Mbappe, Bailey and so on but these players are the icing on the cake and not what consistently wins you games. You need these footballers who can control the game and dominate the tight spaces and half rooms. France only has these physical talents but lacks the type I just described. Germany instead has players like Brandt, Weigl, Kimmich, Dahoud, Arnold, Havertz, Akkaynak and so on which are simply brillant footballers but partly still play in the U-teams since the previous generation still performs.

I find it amazing that people still haven't understood it after all these success stories of Spain, Germany, Barcelona and Madrid. Screw pace, give me players with a great touch, good close control, passing ability and a football brain instead. And in these things, Brandt is heads and shoulders above Sane.
 
Wow so much uproar about who should be the 3rd player in the LW picking order of Germany. Never knew that bothered so many people. 100 comments on here, 1000 in the guardian comments section. The news is featured prominently in international media like L'Equipe and Gazzetta, plus ESPN is covering it big time with one article in favour of the omission and one very angry article speaking against it.

German media and twitter exploded, but that was expected given that there are usually endless (and aggressive) discussions about who should be called up as the 3rd keeper, the least important position of all.
 
Wow so much uproar about who should be the 3rd player in the LW picking order of Germany. Never knew that bothered so many people. 100 comments on here, 1000 in the guardian comments section. The news is featured prominently in international media like L'Equipe and Gazzetta, plus ESPN is covering it big time with one article in favour of the omission and one very angry article speaking against it.

German media and twitter exploded, but that was expected given that there are usually endless (and aggressive) discussions about who should be called up as the 3rd keeper, the least important position of all.

To be fair a lot of that noise (not all of course!) is probably people who haven't exactly watched him play for Germany and go purely by his club form.
 
Wow so much uproar about who should be the 3rd player in the LW picking order of Germany. Never knew that bothered so many people. 100 comments on here, 1000 in the guardian comments section. The news is featured prominently in international media like L'Equipe and Gazzetta, plus ESPN is covering it big time with one article in favour of the omission and one very angry article speaking against it.

German media and twitter exploded, but that was expected given that there are usually endless (and aggressive) discussions about who should be called up as the 3rd keeper, the least important position of all.

Outside Germany Sane is already a bigger star than Reus (who barely plays these days), Draxler and Brandt. If any of them becomes available, all top clubs would go for Sane. It's that simple. There is a reason why Sane has been compared to Giggs. Could you imagine that he had more assists in the league last season than Giggs ever managed with United? In terms of raw numbers (goals + assists) Sane has contributed 25 league goals - as many as Ronaldo and Henry at the same age (22).
 
Disagree. I neither think France has a more talented young player pool nor do I think that Sane is the most talented youngster. Leroy definitely had the best season of Germany's youngsters, that's true, but I still think that many others outperform him in terms of technique and intelligence. And these things are more important than anything else including pace. I've been saying the whole year that Brandt is more talented than Sane (and Bailey, too, by the way) because he can do things with a football that Sane can't.

Sane is spectacular just like Dembele, Mbappe, Bailey and so on but these players are the icing on the cake and not what consistently wins you games. You need these footballers who can control the game and dominate the tight spaces and half rooms. France only has these physical talents but lacks the type I just described. Germany instead has players like Brandt, Weigl, Kimmich, Dahoud, Arnold, Havertz, Akkaynak and so on which are simply brillant footballers but partly still play in the U-teams since the previous generation still performs.

I find it amazing that people still haven't understood it after all these success stories of Spain, Germany, Barcelona and Madrid. Screw pace, give me players with a great touch, good close control, passing ability and a football brain instead. And in these things, Brandt is heads and shoulders above Sane.


Yup, completely agree. Thats why i personally believe that players like Xavi/Iniesta/Kroos/Modric/Lahm/Schweinsteiger/even Alsonso in his prime, are more important for the success of a team, than players like Messi and Ronaldo. The success of Germany, Spain and to some extend, Bayern, should prove that.

The combination of both, of course, is simply perfect (Messi-Xavi-Iniesta for Barca for example).
 
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Brandt made it but not Leroy... This is a behind the scenes personal issue. Brandt isn't half the player Sane is.
Well I was surprised of Sané being cut myself, but have you ever watched Brandt play? Is is a really good player. Not WC level, but really, really good.
 
I understand all the talks about systems and formations but I am stilled stunned about Germany leaving out Sane out. He's fast, physically strong, skilled...surprising they could not a find spot for him on that squad.
 
Yup, completely agree. Thats why i personally believe that players like Xavi/Iniesta/Kroos/Modric/Lahm/Schweinsteiger/even Alsonso in his prime, are more important for the success of a team, than players like Messi and Ronaldo. The success of Germany, Spain and to some extend, Bayern, should prove that.

The combination of both, of course, is simply perfect (Messi-Xavi-Iniesta for Barca for example).

Think Messi is an exception because he is as good as anyone in tight spaces, pressing resistance etc. But you are right and you see it in the current Barca squad. Those dominant center midfields is what they are missing and even Messi isn't good enough to do it on his own. In fact, the most successful teams in the past all had those type of midfielders and those that didn't an still won titles usually fluked them (Portugal, Chelsea, Inter). That's exactly why I don't think France will win it. Funnily, they left the only midfielder who could fit into this category (Rabiot) at home. Brazil and Argentina are similar cases, but they at least have some players with the potential to be great in these regards. France more or less solely consist of physical powerhouses.
 
I'm German and it's not. Sane is the most talented out of this squad, we don't have the talent of France. We are in a bad state currently, we still depend on the older generation

It's actually quite a Scandal right now

Maybe it’s because Sane can’t adapt to Joachim’s methods. Not too many managers will deploy Pep’s ultra-high risk football in a World Cup tournament.
 
I'm German and it's not. Sane is the most talented out of this squad, we don't have the talent of France. We are in a bad state currently, we still depend on the older generation

It's actually quite a Scandal right now

Scandal is overstating it. Im surprised to hear that as I don't see you Germans being as dramatic as your English cousins. Talent aside, how does he fit into the NT setup under Low? How has he performed? Unless he's been firing on all cylinders on the international stage I hardly see why his omission would be deemed scandalous.

Outside Germany Sane is already a bigger star than Reus (who barely plays these days), Draxler and Brandt. If any of them becomes available, all top clubs would go for Sane. It's that simple. There is a reason why Sane has been compared to Giggs. Could you imagine that he had more assists in the league last season than Giggs ever managed with United? In terms of raw numbers (goals + assists) Sane has contributed 25 league goals - as many as Ronaldo and Henry at the same age (22).

This is an obvious lie. Sane had 15 assists in the league last season. Do you mean to say more than Giggs ever managed in a single season in the league or overall? Giggs made 162 assists in the league alone during his career, not counting other competitions and not counting the two years he played when assist stats were not recorded.
 
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Disagree. I neither think France has a more talented young player pool nor do I think that Sane is the most talented youngster. Leroy definitely had the best season of Germany's youngsters, that's true, but I still think that many others outperform him in terms of technique and intelligence. And these things are more important than anything else including pace. I've been saying the whole year that Brandt is more talented than Sane (and Bailey, too, by the way) because he can do things with a football that Sane can't.

Sane is spectacular just like Dembele, Mbappe, Bailey and so on but these players are the icing on the cake and not what consistently wins you games. You need these footballers who can control the game and dominate the tight spaces and half rooms. France only has these physical talents but lacks the type I just described. Germany instead has players like Brandt, Weigl, Kimmich, Dahoud, Arnold, Havertz, Akkaynak and so on which are simply brillant footballers but partly still play in the U-teams since the previous generation still performs.

I find it amazing that people still haven't understood it after all these success stories of Spain, Germany, Barcelona and Madrid. Screw pace, give me players with a great touch, good close control, passing ability and a football brain instead. And in these things, Brandt is heads and shoulders above Sane.

Brandt more talented than Sane? Hhmm if you said that a couple of seasons ago I would definitely agree with you, when I first saw Brandt when he transferred from Wolfsburg I thought he was as talented as Gotze but I don't think he has the motivation/application to become a world class player. He was developing very well under Schmidt as well, had an incredible end to the 15/16 season but then everything stagnated the following season, which he partially recovered last.

Sane though, seeing how he's developed rapidly under Pep, I think has the application to become a world class player in the future. In terms of pure talent both might be similar, Brandt maybe more, but Sane looks like he has the mental tools to make it to the very top. Playing at City demands much more out of a player than Leverkusen, where I think Brandt has become very settled and is not being challenged enough.

Regarding the list of players mentioned, Arnold is an interesting player because he did very well with the U-21's last season but his club form has always been average; but you have consider how much that has to do with how sh*t a club Wolfsburg has become. If Wolfsburg were to have been relegated then maybe he could've moved to another club to then we could see him develop more.

The rest of the players I agree are very talented, Dahoud has been a bit disappointing for Dortmund though; Akkaynak I only know from FM17 but he hasn't played for Leverkusen yet, neither have I seen him play. Is he really talented?
 
Think Messi is an exception because he is as good as anyone in tight spaces, pressing resistance etc. But you are right and you see it in the current Barca squad. Those dominant center midfields is what they are missing and even Messi isn't good enough to do it on his own. In fact, the most successful teams in the past all had those type of midfielders and those that didn't an still won titles usually fluked them (Portugal, Chelsea, Inter). That's exactly why I don't think France will win it. Funnily, they left the only midfielder who could fit into this category (Rabiot) at home. Brazil and Argentina are similar cases, but they at least have some players with the potential to be great in these regards. France more or less solely consist of physical powerhouses.

Physicality is not the dominant feature to describe players like Pogba or Lemar, it‘s their outstanding technique.

Who do you have down for Argentina or Brazil in midfield who are good enough to dominate a game?
 
Scandal is overstating it. Im surprised to hear that as I don't see you Germans being as dramatic as your English cousins. Talent aside, how does he fit into the NT setup under Low? How has he performed? Unless he's been firing on all cylinders on the international stage I hardly see why his omission would be deemed scandalous.



This is an obvious lie. Sane had 15 assists in the league last season. Do you mean than Giggs ever managed in a single season in the league or overall? Giggs made 162 assists in the league alone during his career, not counting other competitions.

Giggs made close to 310 assists throughout his United career. Surely, his number of league assists is closer to 240.
 
Brandt more talented than Sane? Hhmm if you said that a couple of seasons ago I would definitely agree with you, when I first saw Brandt when he transferred from Wolfsburg I thought he was as talented as Gotze but I don't think he has the motivation/application to become a world class player. He was developing very well under Schmidt as well, had an incredible end to the 15/16 season but then everything stagnated the following season, which he partially recovered last.

Sane though, seeing how he's developed rapidly under Pep, I think has the application to become a world class player in the future. In terms of pure talent both might be similar, Brandt maybe more, but Sane looks like he has the mental tools to make it to the very top. Playing at City demands much more out of a player than Leverkusen, where I think Brandt has become very settled and is not being challenged enough.

Regarding the list of players mentioned, Arnold is an interesting player because he did very well with the U-21's last season but his club form has always been average; but you have consider how much that has to do with how sh*t a club Wolfsburg has become. If Wolfsburg were to have been relegated then maybe he could've moved to another club to then we could see him develop more.

The rest of the players I agree are very talented, Dahoud has been a bit disappointing for Dortmund though; Akkaynak I only know from FM17 but he hasn't played for Leverkusen yet, neither have I seen him play. Is he really talented?

Well, if Brandt had more talent some years ago, he should still have more as of now, shouldn't he? ;) I agree that Sane made more out of his talent at this point of their careers but if you look at the raw potential, Brandt is above Sane IMO.

You mention the mindaet and I think this is a good point. It is no secret that Sane has a large ego and probably this makes it easier for him at this young age since he has more trust in his abilities. But Brandt is more down to earth (just renewed his contract recently although he could've gone to top clubs) and he also seems to be more open towards criticism and coaching. On the other hand, he appears to be more nervous on the big stage. Yet, players like Brandt usually peak later in their careers. Currently he still has this "phlegmatic" reputation just like Kroos and Özil. He has some maturing to do but developments of young players are not linear. We should wait snd see where both end up. Currently, I can only say that Brandt is the more intelligent player and technically much better thsn Sane while the latter has the advantage of his incredible pace while still being a very good technician himself.

Regarding Akkaynak I cannot give you more insights. Unfortunately I haven't seen him live and there isn't much footage available (typical for German players as we really lack behind in all this stuff. You can find 15 minute videos of every Brazilian talent but not of the biggest prospects in Germany) but he has a vety, very good reputation and woke some serious interests exemplarily from Barcelona. It is said that he's an extremely good passer, agile and very good on the ball. One of these typical modern CMs.


Physicality is not the dominant feature to describe players like Pogba or Lemar, it‘s their outstanding technique.

Who do you have down for Argentina or Brazil in midfield who are good enough to dominate a game?

Pogba has a brillant technique, that's for sure, but he is definitely not a player like Kroos or Xavi. Very direct, often uses his upper body strength instead of finding technical solutions and not the best decision making. Don't think he is such a CM, more a typical box to box type and that is not what I meant.

For Brazil I'd say Coutinho could play the Iniesta role, Fernandinho did very well under Guardiola, Renato Augusto developed into this role and Fred also seems like a decent CM. Arthur is a player that could become interesting in the future. Argentina has Messi on the 10 and also players like Lo Celso and Dybala eho have the skillset and decision making. Pastore is not in the team but wpuld be another choice. Mascherano played for Barca for a very long time and could also play the Busquets role.
Nothing ideal and some players would have to play out of position. Definitely worse than Spain and Germany but still some players that could turn out doing a great job.

Lemar is a good shout but a winger and most likely won't start. If you take a look at France CM, it mainly consists of very physical players. Pogba, Kante, Tolisso, Matuidi, N'Zonzi.. I don't know. Sure they know what to do with a ball at their feet, especially Pogba, but it is not their primary attribute. They look like a Mourinho and not a Guardiola midfield to me. Imagine them playing against Özil/Kroos/Gündogan or Silva/Isco/Thiago/Iniesta/Busquets. They won't get a grab and when they have the ball they will most likely lose it quickly with some overambitious pass.
 
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You mention the mindaet and I think this is a good point. It is no secret that Sane has a large ego and probably this makes it easier for him at this young age since he has more trust in his abilities. But Brandt is more down to earth (just renewed his contract recently although he could've gone to top clubs) and he also seems to be more open towards criticism and coaching. On the other hand, he appears to be more nervous on the big stage. Yet, players like Brandt usually peak later in their careers. Currently he still has this "phlegmatic" reputation just like Kroos and Özil. He has some maturing to do but developments of young players are not linear. We should wait snd see where both end up. Currently, I can only say that Brandt is the more intelligent player and technically much better thsn Sane while the latter has the advantage of his incredible pace while still being a very good technician himself.

Well Brandt not transferring to a bigger club is a reason why I think he's mentally not as strong as Sane. Sane made a really bold and risky move to City at his age and many here, including myself, thought he wasn't ready after 1 great season for Schalke. How he has developed there so rapidly is a testament not only to Pep's coaching but also Sane's own will to succeed in such a competitive environment. We have to remember it hasn't been smooth sailing for Sane as well, he had a slow start to his career at City and was dropped at the start of the season as well but won the confidence of Pep back and was an confirmed starter for them by the end. That shows incredible will to succeed at that level and a confidence in his ability.

It's obvious that for a young player you have to make the step up to a bigger, better team in order to further develop and now was the opportunity for Brandt to do that. You are in an environment where you have to constantly push yourself to play at a high level in order to play week in week out since you're playing with some of the best players in your position; and can make you become a better player. Either Brandt wasn't getting the offers from clubs he thought he would be (Bayern, Liverpool etc) or again he is comfortable at Bayer where he doesn't have to play at a very high level to get consistent starts.

He has all the talent to be world class but on current progression, it seems Sane will reach that level a lot sooner than Brandt, if Brandt does at all.
 
Jesus Navas was a bench game changer for Spain during 2010.

Sane could have been that for Germany i.e just throw him on and wreck havoc down the wing.
 
Pogba has a brillant technique, that's for sure, but he is definitely not a player like Kroos or Xavi. Very direct, often uses his upper body strength instead of finding technical solutions and not the best decision making. Don't think he is such a CM, more a typical box to box type and that is not what I meant.

For Brazil I'd say Coutinho could play the Iniesta role, Fernandinho did very well under Guardiola, Renato Augusto developed into this role and Fred also seems like a decent CM. Arthur is a player that could become interesting in the future. Argentina has Messi on the 10 and also players like Lo Celso and Dybala eho have the skillset and decision making. Pastore is not in the team but wpuld be another choice. Mascherano played for Barca for a very long time and could also play the Busquets role.
Nothing ideal and some players would have to play out of position. Definitely worse than Spain and Germany but still some players that could turn out doing a great job.

Lemar is a good shout but a winger and most likely won't start. If you take a look at France CM, it mainly consists of very physical players. Pogba, Kante, Tolisso, Matuidi, N'Zonzi.. I don't know. Sure they know what to do with a ball at their feet, especially Pogba, but it is not their primary attribute. They look like a Mourinho and not a Guardiola midfield to me. Imagine them playing against Özil/Kroos/Gündogan or Silva/Isco/Thiago/Iniesta/Busquets. They won't get a grab and when they have the ball they will most likely lose it quickly with some overambitious pass.

I know he is not the type of player you mean, but I think you focus too much on the physical aspects of Pogba. His physique is just another aspect of his playing style and not what made him the most expensive midfielder in the world, that was his otherworldly technique and creativity. He is also not a Mourinho type of CM and fundamentally different to all the other France players you mentioned, just because he is big doesn't mean he fits that bill. He lacks the engine, he is not good at positioning and I don't think what you say about him being too direct is true. The other french players are the one who look for the quick pass to give it to a team mate whereas he dwells on the ball very long, makes some more skills and looks for the killer opening. He just doesn't keep it simple enough, that is why he doesn't fit your bill of a CM. Doesn't have anything to with physicality, Xabi Alonso's playing style for example was much more physical than his.

Regarding your mentions from Brazil and Argentina, I was a bit underwhelmed. Coutinho and Augusto are both classic number 10s and no central midfielders, Fernandinho is limited in his passing range and in my opinion just another physical element in a very physical Brazil midfield. Arthur was the only one who came to my mind when I asked you about it, but he plays no role whatsoever at the moment. I forgot about Fred, know too little about him.

Argentina's mentions are a bit laughable ;). I expected someone like Banega, he fits the bill very well. Messi is not the same for Argentina and not fit to be a central midfielder in terms of his attributes. Dybala is even worse, he is a second striker and when he was asked by Allegri to play in midfield and be the playmaker, his play was stifled severely. He is very good at dribbling but not good at beating the press, I think those attributes get confused sometimes. Lo Celso is an okay talent I guess, didn't watch him that much. In the match against Madrid, his decision making was very bad, looked like Sebastian Rode out there. Pastore always had talent, but he is weak mentally. No ambition outside of living the sweet life and nowadays, just a joke of a player in any competitive environment. Mascherano was good like 4 years ago, since then he has declined heavily and I wouldn't want him anywhere near the starting midfield of a top side.

I agree France's midfield doesn't have the right balance yet, but more often than not it is also about the coach building a cohesive unit. You could easily build a midfield with N'Zonzi at the base and two number 8s like Pogba and Lemar in front. N'Zonzi is very capable of building up the play and similar to someone like Weigl or Busquets in my book. I don't think it would be a good idea to use that kind of midfield, even though you think it is the only right way to win.

You have to think about other parts of the team as well and at France, you have two very young players in attack. Dembele and Mbappe lack the physique, the fight and the intensity of more experienced players to win a battle-hardened World Cup duel and to have someone like Kante in there to win balls back left, right and centre would be worth it in my opinion. Brazil did it similarly in 2002, having dribblers lacking in work-rate up front and a rock solid midfield behind them.
 
Oh for the days when England could afford to omit someone of Sane's quality.