Fixed it for you
Leonardo Bonucci | All discussion here please
- Thread starter Suedesi
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Fixed it for you
No chance.
Why are you laughing? None of them can touch Bonucci.
I know who you highlighted. Ramos has been among the best has well for the best part of a decade. People may not like him and Pepe, but they are exceptional defenders, if you think otherwise, you obviously have trouble understanding the art.
Pepe is a very good defender but Ramos can not defend. He is constantly caught out of position as a defender. He's a very handy player I must say but as a defender he's not even close to being one of the best.
Well, the first thing I did was check whom you supported. That explains the bias. Bonucci is very good, and so are Pique and Ramos. In my opinion, and in the opinion of many, the latter two are better. You might differ, but calling them 'nothing defenders' is just plain nonsense.
if we can get rid of Jones and Rojo, sure, go for another CB, and a better one. But that would mean lesser game time and a lack of a starting position for one of Bailly, Smalling or TFM, and I'd very much we allowed them to show what they're made of, than replace them.
It is becoming more difficult to identify with the team when there are so many changes happening every fecking year - can we not trust the young exciting guard to take care of defence, especially when they look so promising?
What a load of crap. Bonucci is 29, not 35. He can easily go on for another six years - Barzagli is 35 as well.
Smalling wasn't the best CB in the league last year, Alderweireld was. Bonucci is on a whole other level than Smalling and all of your other CBs.
Hummels wasn't anywhere near Bonucci's level either last year, you might've played too much FIFA I think.
I'm not saying CB is a priority position for United btw.
When comparing them to the best defenders around they are not even close to that level. They make so many mistakes in defence every time I watch them it's just luaghable to suggest they are in the same league as the better defenders around.
That's just simply not true. He is given the freedom in most Madrid games to bring the ball forward along with making bursting attacking runs, in which Real Madrid benefit immensely from.
Yes I think Ramos is a very good player don't get me wrong on that. As a defender though I think he is poor in that regard. He may suit the way Real Madrid play with his good attacking play from the back but as an over all defender he is not close to the better defenders around.
As I have said there is so many mistakes in his defensive play with poor positioning and lapses in concentration when defending at the back.
I would like to know what @Dork thinks of Bonucci
Don't think there is any doubt that he would be a fantastic signing regardless of how you would compare him with the other top centre backs in world football - I'd personally certainly rank him behind Ramos & Boateng, maybe on a par with Pique, Hummels and a couple of others although I am quite flexible with that as it's comparing different types of defenders which is always difficult. While I wouldn't say a centre back is our top priority at the moment I can definitely see why Jose would want to improve us in that area, particularly if he wants to give Bailly time to adjust and if a player of the quality of Bonucci was available then it'd be a no brainer.
That said, he turned down big money to move to City and is clearly very settled at Juventus, not to mention them doubtlessly not really wanting to do further business with us this summer after already losing Pogba.
That said, he turned down big money to move to City and is clearly very settled at Juventus, not to mention them doubtlessly not really wanting to do further business with us this summer after already losing Pogba.
Even with Emperor Josetine and Darth Woody I can't see us pulling this off.
Easily go on for six years? Like Rio and Vidic are still easily doing it? Like Terry bossed the league last year?
I don't know how things work in the Seria A, but even the best don't go on 'easily' till 35. We can't expect more than 2-3 years from Bonucci, and there's no guarantee how he'll fare in the PL.
He's good, but I don't this overrating of possible transfer targets.
re:Smalling, I said 'arguably'. Fine, let's say Alderweireld was the best ( I don't agree, but still). Is Smalling at least in your top three?
Hummels may not have better last season, my argument is that he's been a better CB over the last few years.
I do think LB/CB/RW are areas United don't look very solid, but simply splurging cash on a stop gap and denying the exciting prospects coming through is not something I'd like to see.
I'd rather we sold Rojo or Jones, and added more depth at CB and LB - promising young defenders who can be given a chance, rather than new players who will deny the current ones.
It's not laughable. And you're probably too biased.
Is there really anything to this, or just to bump the price or get a new contract?
Personally i doubt we're in for him, even though he is brilliant and i would love him here.
Personally i doubt we're in for him, even though he is brilliant and i would love him here.
Bonucci is only 2 years older than Smalling for example, so I just don't agree he'd be a stop gap solution, I think he's an ideal Mourinho CB and would be here for a minimum of 3 years. And yes, Smalling was probably top 3 alongside Morgan and Alderweireld although you could make cases for a couple of others as well.
You have Mkhitaryan and Lingard, even Rashford maybe for RW and Shaw, CBJ and Blind if necessary for LB, seems plenty of choice to me.
This will happen.
We will Juve some time off and then hit them with the money they want straight away, well bid 60m with a few days left in the window.
We will Juve some time off and then hit them with the money they want straight away, well bid 60m with a few days left in the window.
Bonucci and Bailly with Smalling and Blind as cover/competition would be great for us
I hope that noone of you, whether City or United fans, really think Juve would sell Bonucci this summer. Of course this won't happen.
If we are going to go for unrealistic targets let's go for Gimenez and be done with it. This isn't going to happen. We just gave Juve a world record fee, and their supporters are less than impressed at losing Pogba. I highly doubt they will sell the centre piece of their defence when they have absolutely no reason to.
There's no way he's leaving, and there's no way they would sell. That said, i really do think he is better than the likes of ramos and pique. Ramos in particular seems to get so overrated, whilst making such basic mistakes... He's rash, constantly out of position and to be honest, Pepe is still a better defender than him at the age of 34.
If we pay the price we will get it. However the price will be ridiculously high
Would be absolute gold if we were to sign Pogba and Bonnuci in one window. No chance though.Bonucci would be an extraordinarily expensive transfer for a position United might even not need. You just don't buy a player like that to get him benched, so Smalling or Bailly would be in trouble, not to mention Blind. Besides, he doesn't properly fit the Mourinho's stated criteria of being already adapted to the Premier League. A player like Fonte is a whole different matter, and although he's very limited, he would in a way still be a bench experienced backup for when something goes wrong. Also, a Mendes' player, I believe. Another center-back added and no one leaving (Blind, Rojo, Jones) and that makes Tuanzebe the 7th option, a player Mourinho just said ‘got what it takes’. 
Do it, let's win this thing.
Couldn't agree more. You won't find much support here where I get the feeling signing 22 players every window would be perfectly acceptable to many. There is strengthening and then there is overkill. I want the team to still look a semblance of a Manchester United side as opposed to a whole new look every couple of years. I think when it comes to buying players, there is always a balancing act as one the one hand, they offer a new option, and hopefully more quality but on the other hand, they need to gel and fit in to the club. In the case of Pogba, Zlatan and Mkhitaryan, the trade off was obviously worth it as we desperately needed quality in those positions. Our defence was the best in the league last year however and has been complimented by Bailly and Shaw, it looks to me like whatever quality Bonucci brings to it will be overkill in the other direction.Bonucci would be an extraordinarily expensive transfer for a position United might even not need. You just don't buy a player like that to get him benched, so Smalling or Bailly would be in trouble, not to mention Blind. Besides, he doesn't properly fit the Mourinho's stated criteria of being already adapted to the Premier League. A player like Fonte is a whole different matter, and although he's very limited, he would in a way still be a bench experienced backup for when something goes wrong. Also, a Mendes' player, I believe. Another center-back added and no one leaving (Blind, Rojo, Jones) and that makes Tuanzebe the 7th option, a player Mourinho just said ‘got what it takes’.
If football was just about sticking around the 18 yard box, perhaps - but it's not
Stellar observation mate. That is why midfields and attacks exists.
The defense last year benefited greatly from the heavily negative style we played with 2 CM's that barley got forward and just parked in front of the CB's. Jose seems to be going to opt for a more attacking approach where one of the CM's has license to join the attack. When you get past Smalling, Bailly and Blind we are down to kids as Rojo and Jones are both poor and unreliable, and none of the 5 are leaders like Bonucci who is a real oldschool warrior CB that would benefit Bailly in particular who is prone to rashness. While you have a point in some wanting to buy a lot of players every season I think a lot of it stems from just how poor the side was when Fergie retired, he masked it's weaknesses and we are still trying to get it right 4 seasons on.
Another issue is this obsession some have with 18 year olds playing every week, and in positions that are routinely for experienced players, if you look back through the PL history alone you wont find many 18 year old CB's featuring regularly in title winning sides. The problem is that somehow 18 has become the benchmark for this idea that they must be first team ready, yet the U21's are there for a reason, and it's also fostered this stupid notion that Lingard is "old" because at 23 he's only just made it, yet that was the age that even greats like Scholes and Becks started as first teamers.
I don't understand why we are still getting linked to the occasional superstar like Bonucci*. Every time Mourinho has been asked about transfers he's said he wanted four fundamental signings, not five or six, and he's got them all. Unless he changes his tune I'm going to assume any extra purchases will be squad players.
*Well actually I do, it's clickbait. But common hacks, at least try and make up something believable.
*Well actually I do, it's clickbait. But common hacks, at least try and make up something believable.
We probably have an interest, which is what they are reporting. I mean, why wouldn't we have an interest? He's fantastic, and better an what we have.
The question is how serious is the interest. Perhaps it's not pressing now, but not that strange for some hacks to know the boss likes him.
This isn't lacrosse where you are obligated to remain in certain zones of the pitch, welcome to modern football
Though I agree with most of what you wrote, the latter part I think is wrong. We are crying out for a leader at the back. We have good PL CB defenders, but nothing that is the end product yet.
On his day Smalling can be very good, but makes rash decisions, is not very good on the ball, and is often lucky not to be penalized at corners (pretty much the same with most CBs today).
Jones is rarely available, Bailly shows promise, but in the last couple of games shows we are going to be under pressure through the large number of stupid fouls he is likely to commit.
Rojo gets caught ball watching too often, though with better defensive discipline could be a better backup than he has shown.
So on the whole doesn't scream out that we have quality not needing to be improved. We don't need another passenger, we need a leader that is the end product.
The guy is of target. We'd rather focus on other targets like Miranda
After Pogba, i think i'm ready for another transfer saga.
The distinction between LvG and Mourinho in terms of negative and attacking is greatly misleading I feel. It's a media oversimplification, not to mention that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever as to what Mourinho will try to implement here, not yet at least. LvG, a bit like Pep does not view defence and attack as separate entities. He wants to defend from the front through winning the ball back as soon as possible and keeping it for as long as possible. He believes that the more you play far away from your goalkeeper, the less defending you have to do and more time you have to attack obviously. The problem is that once he achieved that to a largely good level as our defensive record suggests, and more importantly our stats regarding how little time was spent in our half by our opponents, he couldn't implement the other half of the plan; doing something with that possession.
Mourinho is more traditional, he wants to defend through actually defending. He builds his team to work on defending the zone as in sitting behind the ball and closing down the space between the lines. Attacking wise, he wants to leave that to the forwards and their creativity as long as it's not at the expense of defensive solidity. The result is that when playing against weak or mid table opponents, that defensive organisation is called upon less because his players are usually better meaning that the forwards enjoy more time in the final third and have room to show their talents. The downside is that when facing strong teams, his teams are pinned back defending deep and his forwards are isolated because the midfielders are suffocated and busy getting behind the ball. The point is that LvG's approach can produce mind numbingly rigid football when it isn't performed with the speed and sharpness needed in the final third but it can also produce the type of football we see from Bayern. Same for Mourinho, when he has Di Maria, Özil and Ronaldo, his approach can produce some thrilling football but when faced with sides that are good at pressing and possession, his teams can produce football that is more reminiscent of Stoke than Manchester United.
In that regard, Mourinho's approach probably does need a more "warrior" defender as you put it simply because his teams are more likely to invite pressure. But I feel that he made his choice in buying Bailly and he has to stand up by that decision because too many new faces can be problematic. It takes time for them to gel and be part of the unit, not to mention, it kills any soul the team might have. As I said earlier, it is a balancing act and I feel that our business so far is on the line. We obviously needed more creativity so there was no point trying to maintain some continuity when the present players were obviously not good enough but any more than that and it is an overkill.
As for your point about backup being unreliable, that's the case everywhere I feel. It is why it's called backup. Real have Nacho as backup. Barcelona have bleeding Mathieu and Vermaelen and the Chelsea side that won the league two years did not even have backup. If there are injuries, you suffer but you can't build a team expecting that everyone will be injured just in case.
Hard to argue with that. There usually are extremes when it comes to these issues. Either play the 18 year olds or forget them about entirely and focus on winning at all costs seem to be the only two views. Obviously there needs to be a bit of balance which is clearly easier said than done. I liked LvG's approach in that regard with having senior experienced first teamers but not overloading the squad so as to open up opportunities for the youngsters. Obviously that backfires when you have too many injuries but the principles I feel were fair and could yield a nice balance.
I don't think we have any real interest at all because it goes against what Mourinho has been saying for weeks.
We'll know soon enough though. The window closes at the end of the month and I'm not currently expecting any more big signings.
I just meant that we could be interested and still not planning to move this window.
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