Maybe very good was pushing it, but certainly improvement on his previous 2 seasons. In 11-12 he was so poor at times I wondered if he had ever heard of the phrase 'being in position'.
Leighton Baines
- Thread starter ::sonny::
- Start date
Maybe very good was pushing it, but certainly improvement on his previous 2 seasons. In 11-12 he was so poor at times I wondered if he had ever heard of the phrase 'being in position'.
There were still signs of complacency and laziness in Evra's defending last year (as well as his annual humiliation against Lennon), just not as frequent as the previous 2 seasons. He's still nowhere near his peak for us when he was an excellent defender, he'd not only run the entire left side of the pitch singlehandedly but would save our arses at the back time and time again. At his age I wouldn't be against replacing him, I just don't think Baines is the answer.
Baines never look good in NT, while Coentrao had superb Euro and looked excellent in Champions League against us. And Baines is 29, while Coentrao is 25 this year. But Baines is a proven PL player for the last few seasons, a key player for Moyes, and will add the British core in our team (which historically, is the United 'way').
Any of these two will be a very good replacement, if Evra decides to move to Monaco/PSG.
Any of these two will be a very good replacement, if Evra decides to move to Monaco/PSG.
As lax as Evra sometimes was defensively his dribbling ability helped ease the pressure on the defense by pushing up the pitch and even starting counters. Hope Baines can do this as well
Are we even in for Coentrao? I don't mind either Baines or him for that matter. Both are much better than Evra. Let's not get carried away with his attitude and love towards the club. He's lost a lot of form and it doesn't seem he'll be able to reach his peak anymore. I don't want Evra sold but it's time he should realize his importance and accept his fate if there are better players in the same position. There were innumerable moments when Evra was caught out of form but we weren't punished because the CBs covered for him. Baines creates lot of chances for a Left back. He can take corners as well, which will free van Persie. If we get Baines at a decent price, I would not say no.
Would be happy if we bought Baines to replace Patrice. Both are very similar and have equal amounts of positive and negative attributes. In the attacking sense we'd probably be upgrading.
Player Focus: Is There Anyone Out There Quite Like Leighton Baines?
by Martin Laurence at Saturday, Jun 29 2013 10:15Share on twitter Share on facebook Share on digg Share on reddit Share on stumbleupon 1
The role of the modern day full back has become increasingly important, with the ball often recycled out to the right and left sided defenders more often than any other position. Nowadays their capabilities in attack are often as important as their solidity at the back, and there are few that have such an integral role for their side than Leighton Baines.
Departed manager David Moyes has looked to tempt the Everton man to join him at Old Trafford in what is surely the least surprising transfer move of the summer. The left back was Moyes' star man at Goodison, and with Patrice Evra ageing (now 32), Baines was earmarked as a replacement even prior to the Scot's appointment.
Despite playing in the backline the 28-year old is one of the Toffees' key men in the final third, building an excellent understanding down Everton's left with Steven Pienaar.
The often-unkept England international isn't like your everyday footballer. He cares little for image, preferring to follow the indie/mod look to the squeaky-clean waxwork types that dominate the game today, and he has a mature head on his shoulders. In turn eye-catching links to some top clubs in the past few years, of which there have been plenty, have rarely distracted the former Wigan man, who instead has kept his head down and consequently improved year on year.
He finished the season with a league high of 116 key passes and 106 accurate crosses - up from respective tallies of 67 apiece in the previous campaign - and it came as no surprise that Everton had a higher proportion of their attacking touches down his left side (42%) than any other team in the division.
It comes as no surprise, then, that a team of United’s quality has come calling. There are very few players around at the moment quite like Baines, but if Everton were to lose him, or indeed United fail to sign him, who could step in at either club?
Here we look at the full backs that are statistically most similar to the United target, looking specifically at Baines' creativity and key passes, as well as his defensive figures from the 2012/13 campaign.
We're excluding Baines' specialist set piece delivery in the creative side of his game here, as with those figures included nobody really comes close to his exceptional averages. The 29-year old was still able to make 1.63 key passes from open play and complete 1.53 accurate crosses when excluding corners per game. His accuracy from said crosses was 24.1%, picking up 5 assists in turn, while in a defensive sense he averaged 2.42 tackles and 1.5 interceptions per game.
There are a couple of right-backs in Europe's top 5 leagues with some similar statistics and traits, with Real Sociedad's Carlos Martínez sharing all but identical crossing figures when excluding corners. The Spaniard delivered 1.48 balls into the box with a 25.3% accuracy in comparison. His defensive stats exceeded those of Baines, however, with 2.93 tackles and 3.14 interceptions per game. The 27-year old clearly has some impressive qualities but playing as he does on the opposite flank, he isn't a viable option.
Similarly, Hamburg's Dennis Diekmeier is an excellent crosser of the ball from the right, with his averages for crosses excluding corners (1.63) and accuracy from those attempts (39.7%) actually an advance on Baines'. His defensive figures are more similar though, with 2 tackles and 1.84 interceptions per game, but the 23-year old, again, is a right back by trade.
In terms of those that play on Baines' left side, Inter's Álvaro Pereira could be an interesting option for Everton in particular. The Uruguayan was linked with Merseyside rivals Liverpool prior to a move to San Siro, though the former Porto man hasn't set the world alight in Milan.
At 27 he is a year younger than Baines, and his stats are still respectable. Solid defensively, Pereira averaged 2.21 tackles and 2.54 interceptions per game in Serie A, with the latter a considerable increase on Baines' figure, but he doesn't offer the same attacking threat. His averages of 1 key pass from open play and 1.04 accurate crosses excluding corners fall short of the Everton man, but he's adept in a wingback role and Martinez has somewhat of a penchant for South Americans.
The most successful match that our research has provided, however, comes in the form of 24-year old Frankfurt left-back Bastian Oczipka. With age on his side, the German put the disappointment of failing to make the grade at Leverkusen behind him with a fantastic debut season for his new club, helping the newly promoted Bundesliga outfit to an exceptional Europa League (6th placed) finish.
The defender racked up a team high of 8 assists, which is a mark up on Baines' 5, with his willingness to bomb forward and get balls into the box a key factor. Indeed, a look at Oczipka's average touches heat map in comparison to that of Baines (above) shows just how similar the two look to play the game.
The German delivered 1.64 accurate crosses from open play per game with a 24.9% accuracy, with both of these figures marginally in excess, but again extremely similar to Baines' return. The pair's defensive stats are also very closely aligned, with Oczipka (1.55 to 1.5) just coming out on top for interceptions and Baines just having the edge (2.42 to 2.39) in terms of tackles. The Frankfurt man will need to improve on a modest pass accuracy of 76.4% to match the level of the Englishman (82.3%) but he too is clearly a key player in the attacking third for his side.
If Everton, or indeed United, want a like-for-like replacement for Leighton Baines it's clear they'll struggle to find a player quite as similar in Europe as promising 24-year old Bastian Oczipka.
Baines has been better than Evra at pretty much everything on the football pitch (i've not seen him head a ball but that's probably because he's always the one crossing it at Everton) for a couple of years now.
Fans love tub thumping badge kissers like like Evra but Baines is a step up.
He's much better than Baines at running with a ball and linking up with wingers. Baines is a better crosser of a ball, there's no doubt about that like, and he's more productive; but I prefer Evra to him anyway.
I'd rather we kept Evra than spent a lot of money on Baines personally.
I think they're at a similar-ish level.
If the net cost of bringing Baines in and losing Evra was only a few million then it'd be good business given the age difference. A set piece specialist is always a nice bonus to have, too.
If the net cost of bringing Baines in and losing Evra was only a few million then it'd be good business given the age difference. A set piece specialist is always a nice bonus to have, too.
Is he better than Van Persie at it though? If not (which I think) then it's pretty irrelevant how good he is at it, when Van Persie will continue getting set pieces.
RvP doesn't take corners from Baines' side of the pitch anyway.
It won't be though.
We'd perhaps get 5m for Evra, and will probably end up lashing 15/17m for Baines
Interesting article, thanks for that...
But I am sort of inclined to agree. With Evra, Buttner *and* Fabio as well I am thinking LB is our 4th biggest need... ?
But I am sort of inclined to agree. With Evra, Buttner *and* Fabio as well I am thinking LB is our 4th biggest need... ?
I think Baines is better, yes. I don't see RVP as a specialist, and from memory I'd say Rooney takes a similar amount of set pieces to what RVP does.
Also RVP hasn't scored a direct (undeflected) free kick for us yet. Baines seems to get at least 3 or 4 a season.
Corners/crosses from FKs it's hard to tell, but I prefer strikers to be in the box.
If we sell to Monaco we'd get more than 5m I hope
If we're selling to Monaco then it's feasible we'd sell for quite a lot.
And to be honest, even a 10m loss is almost reasonable. Although I hope a 5m loss is more realistic.
They're both left footers. Does Baines take the corners even from the other side (Rooney's side)?
I don't know, but RvP takes them from our right flank only. If Baines can take a good corner from his own flank then he'd be a massive upgrade on Rooney who's shit at them.
Yep, if he can take them from the left side too, then we'll score many other goals from corners. But if I am not mistaken, left footers usually takes them from the right side.
If we still have a bunch of money - sure we can sign Baines. But it is not a priority position for me. But having Baines' set-pieces and crosses would be reassuring against teams parking the bus
Me too. Evra's career may not have much mileage left, but last season he was almost as good as ever, which makes him one of the best full-backs in the world. To a money-club as nouveau-riche as Monaco, I'd expect us to get at least £10m and probably more.
As much as I'd like that kind of a figure I don't think we are gonna see it. We've a tendency when selling to give a fair market price. Especially when the player in question is past the 30yr old mark. I'd would be thinking we are gonna be getting around 6-7m, that is of course if Evra does indeed leave.
Almost as good as ever?!
I think a few goals from Evra have seriously distorted the recollection of his season in some of you.
Don't you remember the first half of the season with our defence all over the place and Evra nowhere to be seen? The return of Vidic helped Evra because the Serb is strong enough to cover for the most part, but that's not a good situation to be relying upon. Evra had some very good games later on in the season, but we need somebody who can play at that level all season and not be over-reliant on support from other players to paper over the cracks.
He's not a shit player by any stretch, but the idea that he's anywhere near being one of the best in the world or anywhere near his peak of four years ago is just ridiculous. Evra is the weak link in our defence.
Oh so true, it's been an ever increasing worry how easy it is for teams to pick on Paddy. Aerially he's our weakest point in the defence topped off with how many times he was getting caught out of position it's certainly something that will need to be addressed. If we have to do it now then so be it.
We'd massively miss Evra's ability to dribble past opponents and link up with wingers. With Young and Valencia seemingly not able to constantly beat a defender for love nor money, Evra's directness has been very important for us. Baines despite being a far better crosser, wouldn't offer that penetration with the ball.
He's also nearly 29. Which is annoying.
He's also nearly 29. Which is annoying.
Actually Baines provides plenty of supporting runs and passing linkup play. Not as good a dribbler, no. But with intelligent movement to get return balls he doesn't need to be. He created the most chances in the league last season... The whole league! And he didnt do it by getting passed the ball in the final third and simply crossing it. He did it with good interplay to get the team up the field too
If we can get Baines for 15 million I think its a decent deal. Would get a good 5 or 6 years production out of him and not to mention the goals he would score/setup in our team.
Evra's ability to beat a man is crucial to us as we currently play with wingers who can't do that. I think we'd really miss that (Unless we brought in some good wingers, but thats another story all together).
Well its true when we play with Young and Valencia doesnt beat people like he used to. But lets remember Zaha is coming in and he'll be taking players on as much as possible
It would be nice having RvP on the end of more set-pieces rather than taking all of them.
He also wont be walking straight into the side. The difference between the championship and the premier league is huge.
Kagawa will probably play on the left, you also don't need to be able to dribble to beat a man. I mean, what a shit reason, we shouldn't sign him because he isn't as good at dribbling as Evra, despite being better in almost every other aspect. His crossing ability will more than make up for Evra beating two players before smashing a cross to the linesman.
Did I say we shouldn't sign him because of that?...I swear people just make up what they want to argue against.
What I said was 'We'd massively miss Evra's ability to dribble past opponents and link up with wingers'. Which is true. We would.
You think Baines can't link up with wingers?
Baines' understanding with Steven Pienaar has been outstanding over the years, imo.
Our best recent full backs (Irwin, Neville) were never good dribblers.
Not as well as Evra, no.
Baines is a poor defender, in the FA Cup semi a year or so ago Downing simply tore him apart.
He's also a better full back than any at Arsenal since Cole.