Leeds (dirty thugs) discussion

amolbhatia50k said:
Well of course not every appointment is competent. That would be silly. But plenty are. To be a competent PL manager is not an anomaly.

You didn't answer though - which category does Bielsa fall in? I'm sure he's influential but why on earth has all this competence landed him at the lofty heights of Leeds United?
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Oh, I'm not saying he's the messiah or anything of the sort. Just that he is clearly very intelligent and obsessive. He probably wears out his teams through being too relentless. A short-term manager.

The way his Bilbao team destroyed us in Europe was a sight to behold.
 
Bastian said:
Oh, I'm not saying he's the messiah or anything of the sort. Just that he is clearly very intelligent and obsessive. He probably wears out his teams through being too relentless. A short-term manager.

The way his Bilbao team destroyed us in Europe was a sight to behold.
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They were wonderful against us. One of the most exciting away peformances I can remember at Old Trafford.

I just find it hard to buy into all the hype. He's 63 and managing Leeds United. If he's been influential I'd like to know more about it and anybody who is dedicated to his craft gets a thumbs up from me. However, he's managing Leeds and either his achievements are not very notable or I'm ignorant about them. I imagine he has other shortcomings other less intricate managers don't have who beat him in those areas.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
They were wonderful against us. One of the most exciting away peformances I can remember at Old Trafford.

I just find it hard to buy into all the hype. He's 63 and managing Leeds United. If he's been influential I'd like to know more about it and anybody who is dedicated to his craft gets a thumbs up from me. However, he's managing Leeds and either his achievements are not very notable or I'm ignorant about them. I imagine he has other shortcomings other less intricate managers don't have who beat him in those areas.
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Yeah, I think the shortcomings are the relentlessness his approach involves which might lead to early burnout for the team and squad morale. Obviosly at Bilbao he did very well and with a very limited budget and an extremely limited pool of players to recruit. His maverick character probably puts off bigger clubs but top managers rate him very highly (Pep being one). But you've got to admit that coming into the English game at the Championship level and getting them to play the way he has, all buying into his approach, top of their league, is very impressive. It's not like he got loads of money to buy his way forward like almost every top manager has done.
 
He's done an amazing job and especially as they've had more than their share of injuries. Like Pep he's also proved good at playing players in different positions and improving them.

Not sure what happened at Lille but he's clearly very intelligent, hugely influential and doing a top job.
 
Bastian said:
Yeah, I think the shortcomings are the relentlessness his approach involves which might lead to early burnout for the team and squad morale. Obviosly at Bilbao he did very well and with a very limited budget and an extremely limited pool of players to recruit. His maverick character probably puts off bigger clubs but top managers rate him very highly (Pep being one). But you've got to admit that coming into the English game at the Championship level and getting them to play the way he has, all buying into his approach, top of their league, is very impressive. It's not like he got loads of money to buy his way forward like almost every top manager has done.
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I'm sure he deserves a lot of credit. As do the likes of Eddie Howe for their similar achievements. But I don't understand the last line. Are you saying getting promoted etc like Howe has done (and beyond to be fair), Bielsa could possibly do, and others have done many times before, is more laudable than actually doing enough to be hired by a top club and then succeeding at said club while (obviously) spending lots? It's pretty unfair to diss the bigger achievers in the field because they 'spent their way' forward. I mean, the most likely reason Bielsa couldn't spend his way to success is because his was never seemed good enough for a big club and the likes of Bilbao, NT jobs and Leeds is more his level.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
I'm sure he deserves a lot of credit. As do the likes of Eddie Howe for their similar achievements. But I don't understand the last line. Are you saying getting promoted etc like Howe has done (and beyond to be fair), Bielsa could possibly do, and others have done many times before, is more laudable than actually doing enough to be hired by a top club and then succeeding at said club while (obviously) spending lots? It's pretty unfair to diss the bigger achievers in the field because they 'spent their way' forward. I mean, the most likely reason Bielsa couldn't spend his way to success is because his was never seemed good enough for a big club and the likes of Bilbao, NT jobs and Leeds is more his level.
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I'm not slighting Howe or Dyche and the likes, but I do think there has been a lot of mediocre British managers around. Part of that problem is employing the same people again and again, even when they've shown they cannot really do anything significant, which stifles the pathway for people like Howe.
 
Bastian said:
Of course it's developed as quickly as everything else in that realm but the need for human intelligence and knowing how to apply it and interpret it is still required. You can see in the Sunderland 'til I die docu-series what they do there, which appears quite minimal compared to Bielsa. Anyone can have the same software, but expertise and competence is a spectrum, it's not just a binary yes or no, or a full on AI.

With regards to the secret tactic, spot on. Which makes it even more pointless to be complaining about someone looking at your training. You really should expect that.

I don't think anyone would have expected Leeds to be doing as well as they are. The people here who are saying Bielsa is an overrated manager have no idea. Never coached in England and look where they are now and how they play.
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IMO Bielsa is quite a good manager:he has a lot of knowledge in football and sports science, but his man management sometimes fails. Plus he has some difficulty to accept that the club needs to sell a couple of good players to keep the balance on positive and sometimes the first choices will prefer to go to other clubs.

He faced this kind of problems at Bilbao and Marseille poorly and unprofessionally. I think with the right staff behind him he might do a very good job. Someone who can cool him down and keep the discipline in the dressing room.
 
André Dominguez said:
IMO Bielsa is quite a good manager:he has a lot of knowledge in football and sports science, but his man management sometimes fails. Plus he has some difficulty to accept that the club needs to sell a couple of good players to keep the balance on positive and sometimes the first choices will prefer to go to other clubs.

He faced this kind of problems at Bilbao and Marseille poorly and unprofessionally. I think with the right staff behind him he might do a very good job. Someone who can cool him down and keep the discipline in the dressing room.
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Incidentally, that's what I think Faria was to Jose.
 
Bastian said:
I'm not slighting Howe or Dyche and the likes, but I do think there has been a lot of mediocre British managers around. Part of that problem is employing the same people again and again, even when they've shown they cannot really do anything significant, which stifles the pathway for people like Howe.
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Cant disagree with that.
 
His teams seem to have a lot of energy (Leeds included from the few times I’ve seen them this season). I think spying on the opposition might not be the only rule he is bending.
 
MoskvaRed said:
His teams seem to have a lot of energy (Leeds included from the few times I’ve seen them this season). I think spying on the opposition might not be the only rule he is bending.
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It is only January his teams usually burn out by the end of the season.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
They were wonderful against us. One of the most exciting away peformances I can remember at Old Trafford.

I just find it hard to buy into all the hype. He's 63 and managing Leeds United. If he's been influential I'd like to know more about it and anybody who is dedicated to his craft gets a thumbs up from me. However, he's managing Leeds and either his achievements are not very notable or I'm ignorant about them. I imagine he has other shortcomings other less intricate managers don't have who beat him in those areas.
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I don't think he cares much about trophies or anything. All modern coaches are influenced by his football philosophy, that will be his success. It's because of guys like him that football is exciting to watch.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I’m talking about the analyses he presented at the press conference. None of which came from spying on training sessions. I find it weird the way the press are fawning over it, as though no other manager/club has thought of doing the same.
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Spying gives you information about the small changes a manager makes to his team before they play you.

Have the press caught anyone else doing it?
 
Sheffield United was a much harder game last week. 5 defeats in 7. Leeds are fecked.
 
Not a lock for top 2 at all anymore.

Could still win the play offs of course although they didn't beat Pulis Boro so that would be tough match up for them. Also lost 4-1 at West Brom.
 
Always gonna be impossible to keep up that work rate. Surprised it took them til January to drop off.
 
I thought they were almost certainties to either win the Championship or be runner's up but things are very tight at the top, looks as though it could go to the last game for the top two spots, Norwich and Sheffield United are keeping up the pace, and West Brom are tucked in just behind.
Could be a real case of squeaky bum time in the finish to the season in this League.
 
Adisa said:
Bielsa doing Bielsa things.
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Yeah, this basically always happens. He gets hailed as a genius after a flying start (see Marseille as the best recent example) and everyone loves his wacky ways, but inevitably it will go sour results wise and then the likelihood is he'll start pissing people at the club off and walk away in a huff.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
Lovely seeing them lose.

Hope they never come up.
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Yup, their fans were getting very annoying. They were acting like they're the City of the Championship. Would be nice to see them stay down and sack Bielsa
 
Catt said:
How so?
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Dropped out of the automatic places. 17 shots, 0 on target.

GK with a crazy red. Injured CB moving up to CF, then forced to play GK and going up for corners in the end. Mad end to the game.
 
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