That man needs to be in The Barclays this minute!!
Leeds (dirty thugs) discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Much ado about nowt!I've done analysis work (freelance stuff through a 3rd party) for Prem sides and Bielsa's is far and ahead any of the ones I've worked with (albeit very briefly). Level of minutes isn't anything special but the detail and time spent per game is more than any Prem side I've heard of.
Bielsa has essentially demonstrated how he carries out opposition scouting and analysis work, by showing how he probably knows more about Derby County than Derby County themselves do.
Also I like how he used Derby as his example... could have used anyone but used Derby. I get the feeling he did that as a middle finger to Lampard and Derby.
Classic, we need him in the PL. He beat Lampard regardless of what he did. PL will be more colourful with him, surely far far better than José.
Good luck in their promotion fight.
So let me get this right. Leeds sent some dude to Derby, he stands on public land and observes them training, gets told to move on and does so. Bielsa then comes out and says he does this for all teams he faces. Is that right?
That does not appear to be the crime of the century.
That does not appear to be the crime of the century.
Great. We are getting another passionate rival (with a competent coach no less) against us next season on top of City and Liverpool.
Who is City hated rivals anyway (except us) that don't lie down for them?
Who is City hated rivals anyway (except us) that don't lie down for them?
Lampard's response
The research involves people illegally being on a property. You think if a tech rival paid people to take some pictures at product in development wouldn't be sketchy? That's just fine?
I think he was referring to all the opposition scouting stuff Bielsa was talking about not the spying thing.
That would be different, but it doesn't seem like that was what Bielsa's scout was doing.
That whoscored post is just bs. You think Pocchetino expected Solskjær to play a 4-4-2 diamond? Fletcher talked about that pass from Pogba to Rashford for the goal was something they had been practising specifically that week. You don't grab that information out of statistics.
That's "fine" in this istance from the POV of the law. Are the 23 other training grounds in the Championship with the same kind of access or the training grounds in Spain or France?
I'm surprised the FA doesn't have rules on this specifically. There are so many laws regarding this in various businesses and football shouldn't be any different.
I feel that it can still be "legal" but, still be against the integrity of the game. There is a lot of things that are perfectly legal that would still go against the integrity of the game.
Never quite understood the fascination with this man.
He’s a character for sure and his teams usually play good football, but for such a long career he’s achieved very little of note.
This is Manchester United, a serious club with serious ambitions, we’re not a circus.
And we already have Pep and Poch who are sort of like what happens when you match a lot of Bielsa's tactics with people skills.
I don't know, but then nobody knows where the scout's brief ends. Perhaps it's "go see if you can have a gander, but don't do anything illegal". That would seem both prudent and reasonable given the lack of guidance from the authorities.
I agree they should make a rule that it's forbidden, but they haven't. As far as I can see it's a token fine and stern warning for 'should know better' and they bring the code up for review at their AGM or whatever.
Yeah, I do think it's underhand just not explosively so. Dude exploited a loophole to gain an advantage but to be honest I'm gobsmacked more folk don't do it. I'd never heard of this unspoken law before this week and just assumed teams' training pitches would be obscured from public view for just this reason.
I would agree with that.
I feel like in this day in age it does not seem to be worth the hassle. Because as Bielsa's presentation showed there is an absurd amount of tools available for opposition scouting these days.
The crime doesn't lie in doing it, it lies in being caught doing it.
I think that this is hilarious. Bielsa has basically played everyone. You can imagine owners/chairmen this morning, going up to their managers and asking to see their folders on every opposition team.
Any club that bothered to hire match analysts should have all this type of information.
Why are people here so in love with this fellow?
Because he does crazy things like this press conference. And he is one of the more influential managers around.
So cool.
Decided I fecking love the guy, why is he at Leeds? 
Best thing I've seen in a long while and even funnier that it pissed off Frank Lampard, more of this in the PL next season please.
Why is the police politely asking people to move on from public spaces? Aren't they busy enough asking people how old are they when they go looking at titties?
I’m talking about the analyses he presented at the press conference. None of which came from spying on training sessions. I find it weird the way the press are fawning over it, as though no other manager/club has thought of doing the same.
I'm not sure there is competence and great efficiency at every club, or even the majority of clubs, just because there is loads of money involved. I'm not sure the equation is as simple as: loads of money = great expertise and due diligence. Examples of that are found all around society, in politics, banking, you name it.
Wenger is often credited for having "revolutionised" the game here with regards to fitness, nutrition, recovery. Back in the day Steve McClaren was said to be one of the first to utilise sports psychologists when he was at Middlesborough. There are so many managers in the leagues who come across as square, rigid and repetitive.
Competency is a precious and rare commodity.
What a bad job is the football analyst
An anal job, transform football in numbers, most of them useless infos
An anal job, transform football in numbers, most of them useless infos
I live just round the corner from the Derby training ground - they could probably ask him to move because where he was hiding / standing would have been 'dangerous'. There is no footpath so he could have got hit by a car or something I guess they could use.
You can tell Lampard is pissed.
Figures.
All the morons on talksport etc slating Bielsa and saying “we all do analysis” generally have about half a brain cell between the lot of them.
Footballers aren’t statisticians. The reason they can play football is not that they are good with numbers, but I’d be amazed if most clubs didn’t employ their own statto/moneyball man.
Remember when that pdf got leaked of an opposition analysis Mourinho was using with his team to prepare them for a game against Newcastle? Exact same amount of detail and that was, what, 10 years ago? Maybe longer? I just don’t get the idea that this Bielsa stuff is revolutionary.
It's not that rare. Most managers in the PL are competent by virtue of being PL managers. Van Gaal was also extremely thorough with his analysis. As was Mourinho. This is hardly ground breaking stuff.
I'm guessing clubs have teams that work on things like all the time.
Maybe he has been influential in the past but it's funny that an old dog rolling out an old trick that seemingly plenty of of other dogs (not Giggs I know) do as well, is getting a rousing reception.
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Two things here - 1. Are you sure other clubs don't do in-depth statistical analysis? 2. Does it matter how a club gets promoted/does well ? If Burnley do well without Excel sheets, I doubt they're going to care much.
Yeah it’s weird. All seems very over the top.
I found what I was talking about. The report was compiled by Villas-Boas! 13 years ago.
https://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01927/art18-1_1927022a.pdf