The question was "is he the best player in the world right now" which you answered, "No."
Lamine Yamal
- Thread starter Hoof the ball
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The question was "is he the best player in the world right now" which you answered, "No."
My main concern with Yamal is his playing time, which is absurd.
Remember the tragedy of Jese Rodriguez (though it wasn't even overplaying, he just suffered a horrible injury whilst young).
Literally, first time I saw him I thought he was a genuine Ronaldo clone. He even ran and dribbled like Ronaldo.
Then he torn his knee in half and that was that. Yamal has played 80 games at Senior level at the highest level and intensity. Honestly? Can't remember another young player who did this and wasn't crippled by the age of 25.
Actually, going through my head of all the 16-18 year old wonderkids who ascended this quickly, every single one of them had really bad crippling injuries. Rooney kind of went through his career relatively uncrippled but he played a third of the games that Yamal had at this age...
Owen, Ronaldo, Fati, Pedri, Gavi, Wilshere, Davide Santon, Fernando Torres off the top of my head.
Were there any 16-18 year olds who were playing full seasons at that age who didn't end up massively injured?
Ronaldo and Messi were given time to ease in, Rooney as mentioned survived somewhat. Mbappe I guess? But he wasn't starting until he was 18/19.
Owen, Ronaldo, Fati, Pedri, Gavi, Wilshere, Davide Santon, Fernando Torres off the top of my head.
Were there any 16-18 year olds who were playing full seasons at that age who didn't end up massively injured?
Ronaldo and Messi were given time to ease in, Rooney as mentioned survived somewhat. Mbappe I guess? But he wasn't starting until he was 18/19.
Top 5 maybe.
Messi.
Hansi working his magic
Fabregas wasn't a complete crock although his injury record was never exceptional and he had poor spells (like his last seasons at Arsenal or, way later, at Monaco). He had 10 seasons with 45+ appearances which is pretty good, I'd say.
Messi had precisely made 2 First team appearances at the age Yamal is right now cumulatively getting 40 minutes of play.
Yes, though even then Fabregas started playing as a first choice midfielder 6 months older than Yamal is right now.
What about by the time he was 18?
No I didn't
Pele
Messi reached the total first team playing time for club and country that Yamal has currently reached, when he was 20 years old.
According to transfermarkt:
Yamal has already played 3900 minutes for Barcelona First Team and 1118 minutes for Spain.
Messi reached 3900 minutes for Barcelona at the very end of his 3rd season as a first teamer.
Right, well, if you have to go back to the 1950's, before the game was properly commercialized and professionalized, I think it proves my point don't you think?
I don't know why you're arguing with me here to be honest:
I don't even support Barcelona but I want to see Yamal reach his potential, and Spain/Barcelona playing a guy who hasn't even reached the midway point of his 17th age yet this amount of football is simply not good for him.
I don't even support Barcelona but I want to see Yamal reach his potential, and Spain/Barcelona playing a guy who hasn't even reached the midway point of his 17th age yet this amount of football is simply not good for him.
Put it even more into perspective, boy wonder Rooney who broke through at 16, only reached 3900 minutes of football (quick calculation off transfermarkt) a whole 13-15 months later than Yamal did.
The reason why Yamal has reached so many games, it's not just because of Yamal, it's also related to Barca's current situation.
Even if Barca respects their academy, nowadays they had to take an approach where they have to risk it no matter what. This could end burning some kid? or getting them injured? yeap, it happened, can happen, but they have no other choice.
This is not a Barca with lots of International Stars in their prime and in the meantime making space with prudence to the new kids on the block. They are in the sort of situation like smaller clubs around the globe normally are and were, yet they still have the power and appeal to retain them.
It's a rebuild a la Pep, but not to cut some vices and re start, it's related to their financial and legal situation.
Pele and Maradona also started very young, but none of their clubs were or even are (in the case of Argentinos Jrs) huge clubs, so they had lots of minutes.
To make a parelelism between Diego and Aguero, Argentinos Jrs in those days could still hold to Diegofor some years, in Kun's case, Independiente lost him quite fast even if them are a way bigger club than Argentinos Jr.
Even if Barca respects their academy, nowadays they had to take an approach where they have to risk it no matter what. This could end burning some kid? or getting them injured? yeap, it happened, can happen, but they have no other choice.
This is not a Barca with lots of International Stars in their prime and in the meantime making space with prudence to the new kids on the block. They are in the sort of situation like smaller clubs around the globe normally are and were, yet they still have the power and appeal to retain them.
It's a rebuild a la Pep, but not to cut some vices and re start, it's related to their financial and legal situation.
Pele and Maradona also started very young, but none of their clubs were or even are (in the case of Argentinos Jrs) huge clubs, so they had lots of minutes.
To make a parelelism between Diego and Aguero, Argentinos Jrs in those days could still hold to Diegofor some years, in Kun's case, Independiente lost him quite fast even if them are a way bigger club than Argentinos Jr.
More fotball ability than Mbappe? Please explain
James Milner.. 22 years later and the cnut is still fecking going. Similar situation too where he was thrown in because Leeds were a fecking mess.
It says more about the state of Barcelona and Spanish football in general that they are pinning all their hopes on a kid. Yes, he's hugely talented, but he's still only a kid and the amount of game time he is seeing now could eventually ruin what could be a stellar career at the top.
If he's lucky, he could be the next James Milner.
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Barça tend to win most of their la liga games by more than 2 goals. Do they take Yamal off when they go 3 goals up?
3-0 up at half time
He was eventually replaced on 76 mins by Pablo Torre
Game prior
Also 3-0 up at half time
Eventually replaced by Fati on 67 mins
You’d think they could afford to give him a breather. Maybe try it the other way round. Try to win without him and if needed impact sub at 70 mins…if just leave him out the squad entirely in a few occasions. It’s almost abuse what they’re doing
The one game they gave him a breather they were getting destroyed until they sent him on(still lost in the end)
Messi had a number of appearances in the lower divisions for the B team before his first team breakout, and by 16 was already better than pretty much everybody else bar Dinho(better than Dinho, according to him actually) but Barcelona had Giuly and one of the best teams in the world at the time, so they didn't need to rush him into the first team. Lamine Yamal, Gavi and Pedri are all guys Barcelona didn't plan to rely on so much so early, they just had no alternatives and they proved good enough immediately that it made no sense to look for replacements in the market and send them back to youth football - plus they didn't have the money to replace them even if they wanted to
No need to explain. Mbappe's ability on the ball is very good, but not exceptional. His speed and other traits add to his game.
No, because Pele literally played hundreds of games as a teen without the protection that players have today (not to mention the litany of doctors, scientists and 'healers' that clubs have at their disposal today). The point is, you have that rare person that is built for it. It was no more common for a teenager to do what Pele did in the 50s than it is now.
In terms of importance & ability in their positions ? Mbappe, Bellingham, vini, Rodri, Haaland, De Bruyne, Salah, Kane , Van dijk , Saliba. Wirtz, Musiala is debatable as well
I checked the stats on this:
Mbappe's entire career at Monaco is less minutes than Yamal has already played for Barca.
You really need to be playing at a very high level for more than 5 months to be called the best player in the world. If he can keep up these performances over a season then fair enough he can be in that category.
Haven't Lewandowski and Raphinha been great as well for Barca, if not better?
Haven't Lewandowski and Raphinha been great as well for Barca, if not better?
The one game they gave him a breather they were getting destroyed until they sent him on(still lost in the end)
Messi had a number of appearances in the lower divisions for the B team before his first team breakout, and by 16 was already better than pretty much everybody else bar Dinho(better than Dinho, according to him actually) but Barcelona had Giuly and one of the best teams in the world at the time, so they didn't need to rush him into the first team. Lamine Yamal, Gavi and Pedri are all guys Barcelona didn't plan to rely on so much so early, they just had no alternatives and they proved good enough immediately that it made no sense to look for replacements in the market and send them back to youth football - plus they didn't have the money to replace them even if they wanted to
Exactly.
PD extra 1t:
Messi like any major talent in Huge clubs in normal periods (even worse in extraordinary ones), has to kick the door to get into the team, it's harder than the scenario that even Diego, or Pele had. His case it's more similar to what Di Stefano faced in River when he was a youngster. Or even worse bacse in Messi's case he also needed to get his dual citinzenship sorted out in order to even be able to play.
PD2 extra 2: Messi got injured constantly in his youth even if he wasn't used as much at Yamal's age. Of course they supported him because they knew what they had in their hands, but if he was a more normal fella, he could have fell into oblivion given that in those days Barca was stacked in options. In fact he had some seriosu injuries during his La Masia days.
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Unreal
Far more skilled and technical.
I’m not interested in comparing his potential with Messi when I say this, but hypothetically speaking if they are the same level of talent, you realise what a special case Messi is when you think about how he seemed to manage 50-60 matches per season for the best part of two decades.
To not only possess the level of talent to keep up that level of performance but to actually have the resilience for that longevity week in week out really is mind boggling.
To not only possess the level of talent to keep up that level of performance but to actually have the resilience for that longevity week in week out really is mind boggling.
Amen.
Jesus f*cking Christ this kid just turned 17.
17! We just got done with Messi at Barca and now this regen turns up.
17! We just got done with Messi at Barca and now this regen turns up.
It’s not just talent. This kid plays with the vision and maturity of a player 10 years older.
Far more intelligent on the ball too
Which is something not spoken about in this forum enough, intelligent players are rare and what we need more.
Messi is a one off.
Something truly special. I don’t think he’ll match the goalscoring exploits of Messi, but he may end up being just as adored