Lamine Yamal

[Querulous Megapode]

At these absurdly young ages, I've always had Pele and Maradona in a league of their own followed by what a 16-year old Cesc was doing,

No such animal existed. Cesc didn't break into the arsenal first team before turning 17 (he had three cup appearances the year before). Even then, I'd argue the hype that season was more about the promise and maturity he'd demonstrated at an age that's nearly unprecedented for the position, rather than the true standard of his performances. (Wilshere had a similar trajectory, I think, only actually breaking into the squad at 18.)

Yamal's legitimately better now at all the things Cesc truly stood out for at his peak. (Primarily his vision and lines-breaking delivery, for me. Arguably he's yet to prove the same facility at link-up, but I've little real doubt he'll reach that level soon enough, if he isn't there already.)

Maradona was almost certainly better at seventeen, from what I've seen. Maybe even better or comparable at the things that make Yamal's current profile so unique. I have very little reason to doubt Pele was roughly similar to Diego, in his day. Ronaldo broke out at 17, albeit at a much lower level, and reached his peak so naturally and smoothly it's possible he really was superior even then. Mbappe was arguably a better player the year he turned eighteen (highlight footage will always favor him do to his extreme explosiveness), but that season will have started when he was months older than Yamal right now, and I think he only truly started leaving a comparable mark around December.

There seems to be a very shallow pool to draw from, after that (the few great players who starred at seventeen did so at a lower level), but quite a few more options at eighteen, some of whom were certainly comparable. (Messi was already a top ten player in the world his first season just on sheer ability, but made very little impact in his cameos the year before. I'd argue even his Barca B appearances were inferior to Yamal's first real season as a pro.)

Honestly, this kid was arguably the player of the tournament at the Euros, and if not #1, then in the conversation to be so, and he's better now than he was then.

The remarkable thing about that tournament is largely what stands out about him even now -- he shouldn't have been that good. He clearly had all the tools in the world (including outstanding dribbling, given space), but not the physical maturity to truly force himself on games against strong opposition.

The absurd thing was how little interest he had in even trying - perfectly content to wait for the game to come to him, and make surgical impact in a way that very few players ever learn to do.

 

[Fortitude]

No such animal existed. Cesc didn't break into the arsenal first team before turning 17 (he had three cup appearances the year before). Even then, I'd argue the hype that season was more about the promise and maturity he'd demonstrated at an age that's nearly unprecedented for the position, rather than the true standard of his performances. (Wilshere had a similar trajectory, I think, only actually breaking into the squad at 18.)

Yamal's legitimately better now at all the things Cesc truly stood out for at his peak. (Primarily his vision and lines-breaking delivery, for me. Arguably he's yet to prove the same facility at link-up, but I've little real doubt he'll reach that level soon enough, if he isn't there already.)

Maradona was almost certainly better at seventeen, from what I've seen. Maybe even better or comparable at the things that make Yamal's current profile so unique. I have very little reason to doubt Pele was roughly similar to Diego, in his day. Ronaldo broke out at 17, albeit at a much lower level, and reached his peak so naturally and smoothly it's possible he really was superior even then. Mbappe was arguably a better player the year he turned eighteen (highlight footage will always favor him do to his extreme explosiveness), but that season will have started when he was months older than Yamal right now, and I think he only truly started leaving a comparable mark around December.

There seems to be a very shallow pool to draw from, after that (the few great players who starred at seventeen did so at a lower level), but quite a few more options at eighteen, some of whom were certainly comparable. (Messi was already a top ten player in the world his first season just on sheer ability, but made very little impact in his cameos the year before. I'd argue even his Barca B appearances were inferior to Yamal's first real season as a pro.)



The remarkable thing about that tournament is largely what stands out about him even now -- he shouldn't have been that good. He clearly had all the tools in the world (including outstanding dribbling, given space), but not the physical maturity to truly force himself on games against strong opposition.

The absurd thing was how little interest he had in even trying - perfectly content to wait for the game to come to him, and make surgical impact in a way that very few players ever learn to do.

Yeah the pool isn't particularly deep, which is why it's so fascinating and unique because these are the chosen ones, essentially and usually clubs are very wary of unleashing them even if they are "ready" I mean, you don't get to find out how ready they are until they come through adulthood without their body breaking down as a consequence of being overplayed as a nonadult; someone like Michael Owen being the poster boy for what can go wrong with the method.

Judgement is still out on whether it's OK for Yamal to be played so extensively at such a tender age. Perhaps he has the trajectory of other chosen ones, but perhaps it ruins him. We'll find out in due course.

re. Cesc. That's a good point as he was 17 for the league stuff. There was a huge hoo-ha about him fielding at 16 and performing as he did.

 

[Fobal]

Barca's production line is insane. How the hell do you get Messi and then a talent like Yamal in succession?

Yamal is entirely a La Masia product, Messi, even if young, was bought and Iniesta two, both weren't typical La Masia products AT ALL but of course after their success, La Masia will be more lean to produce/ and grab dribblers even if those aren't precisly big fellas, Lamine, Ansu are a consequence of what happen with Andres and Lio.

He has a level of ability that, injuries permitting, he's a potential multiple Ballon D'Or winner throughout his career.

By the mere look of his progression and talent, he looks like to be at the very least a contender with this progression

He's getting faster and stronger and his build is visibly changing as he turns into a young man, lest we forget he's still a boy, especially in footballing terms.

He is a teen and he is slim, but looks like a fella that can become bigger, this will affect his game, in some aspects for the good, in others his game might end affceted.
At first glance he doesn't look build stocky and strong like Pele, Diego, Messi...neither looks that he might become a Gullit, Kempes, R9 build alike, so if he stays slim, we'll see how this affect his game and if he becomes a lot more muscular, that also might affect for instance his great long stride.

At these absurdly young ages, I've always had Pele and Maradona in a league of their own followed by what a 16-year old Cesc was doing, but I think Yamal usurped him on that totem and is now creating separation. Honestly, this kid was arguably the player of the tournament at the Euros, and if not #1, then in the conversation to be so, and he's better now than he was then. His rise to prominence is mind-boggling, and to this point in time, you're going to be extremely hard-pressed to find other 17-year olds to be in the running with how good he is at the age he is, or certainly to be proving it. Even young Ronaldo (Brazil) and Messi weren't doing this much on such a grand set of stages, which again highlights how off the charts what Yamal is doing is. There's also the fact that Yamal has no World Cup at 17 to play in, with his earliest opportunity being 2026 when he'll already be 18, which is a shame because he's already proven what he's capable of on the international stage at 16. There's little reason to doubt the World Cup would have been any different for him (than the Euros were) had he got to feature in it at the same age as Pele was.

His game is so consummate, which is bizarre. Usually when you see the extreme end with phenoms, they are all running, dribbling and bluster at these ages, full of energy and skill, but very much more drive towards a focal point and do something. Yamal isn't like that at all. He constantly picks the shrewdest option and rarely overcooks anything - he is sooo hard to plan for and play against because his snapshot decisions are mostly impeccable. Get too overzealous in pressing him and he'll use your vigour to take you out the game with a one-two or an early pass; don't press him and he'll run at you; try and hold your shape and he will use that to whip in a dangerous pass or cross. It's a real divide I see in him amongst even the legendary teenagers such as: Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Cruyff, Best.

Mbappe was another teen who had quite extraordinary decision making for his age, but nothing like this level of skill and craft, and that's not to slight Mbappe, rather, to state how much of a glitch this kid is.

Let's not get so over the top, not regarding promising and the kid's real talent, but understanding the diff circumstances of many of the players mentioned. Stuff in life, NEVER is so black and white.

Pele and Maradona, were very young prodigies threw to field at a tender age due to not only heir talent, but because of the Clubs they were involved. Santos and Argentinos Jrs were small clubs in the context of their respective Leagues so when someone like them appears, coaches and the club itself will be more prone to use them, even more when in South America, specially in Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina, it's since the very early days of football a pretty common situation to make players debut in Pro Football being teenagers (even in more or less recent times, Aguero, Saviola, Aimar, Tevez...etc etc, everyone of them with diff enviroments (ages) and reasons started being teeangaers, not just because of their talent).

To make it more clear what I mean.
Di Stefano was always a prodigy, but you don't get a starting spot in that River, one of the most stacked teams ever, even being him.
Neither if you are Messi in one of Barca's most successfull periods with a star player above the other in multiple roles, that doesn't happenn for multiple reasons, not only a stack team, but even strategically (more in this current world full of fishermen).
Of course due to their personalities and talent they knock down the wall, more than knocking at the door first division, yet in a healthy of any huge club, youngsters, even Genius alike, will have to deal with other enviroment than current turmoil Barca is since time, being forced to give chances not always in the more proper way, yet sometimes you can get the jackpot with a Lamine and pray injuries doesn't turn everything to the worst.

Genius and phenoms like Pele, Messi, R9, or even Ney..."are all running, dribbling and bluster at these ages, full of energy and skill, but very much more drive towards a focal point and do something" BECAUSE THEY CAN, to not notice the CLEAR gap in power, pace, control and manage of space and time of such fellas, AT SUCH pace in comparison with Lamine, does not get what a Pele or any of these fellas were since a freaking boy.

It's so preposterous their level of talent in such regard, that it's logical that they will play like in their backgarden, in the park, dribbling everyone. There is a huge difference in atributes when you can watch any of those fellas as teens, no matter it's not first division in Barca.

Yamile doesn't have that, even if he is extremely gifted, he is extremely gifted in such regard like Iniesta, Figo, players alike, that even being extraordinary dribblers, they have to think more what to do, when to do it, how to do it. What is special from Lamine (yet I I have very few doubts that fellas like Laudrup, Iniesta, Figo would have been similar in their decision making if their circumstances would force them to play regularly at 17 under the biggest spotlight) it's that the kid does it with an aplomb, with a mange of resources on every aspect, even enrgy wise, extraordinary, very special player indeed. Yet it's a silly comparison when that comparison it with those fellas. Even with his idol Neymar.

Mbappe was another teen who had quite extraordinary decision making for his age, but nothing like this level of skill and craft, and that's not to slight Mbappe, rather, to state how much of a glitch this kid is.

I really don't agree with this, AT ALL, from the physical phenom/genius alike players, that have been prodigies since a very young age, I can't see with Kiki any extraordinary decision making, he is a player that even right now doesn't have that, nor will have when he is throw in the same bowl of Maradona, Pele and cia. Kiki being harsh, extremely unfair, it's dumb in that bowl.

 

[tenpoless]

I'd give it time. We don't know if he's going to be Messi, Jack Wilshere, Bojan Krkic, or Inigo Montoya

 

[criticalanalysis]

He is a teen and he is slim, but looks like a fella that can become bigger, this will affect his game, in some aspects for the good, in others his game might end affceted.
At first glance he doesn't look build stocky and strong like Pele, Diego, Messi...neither looks that he might become a Gullit, Kempes, R9 build alike, so if he stays slim, we'll see how this affect his game and if he becomes a lot more muscular, that also might affect for instance his great long stride.

Unless he has injuries, freakish testosterone or overdoes training, he'll be fine. Look at Sane, Coman, Robben etc for similar height, slim and gait. All carried their agility and dribbling into their 20's very easily.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

Yamal is entirely a La Masia product, Messi, even if young, was bought and Iniesta two, both weren't typical La Masia products AT ALL but of course after their success, La Masia will be more lean to produce/ and grab dribblers even if those aren't precisly big fellas, Lamine, Ansu are a consequence of what happen with Andres and Lio.



By the mere look of his progression and talent, he looks like to be at the very least a contender with this progression



He is a teen and he is slim, but looks like a fella that can become bigger, this will affect his game, in some aspects for the good, in others his game might end affceted.
At first glance he doesn't look build stocky and strong like Pele, Diego, Messi...neither looks that he might become a Gullit, Kempes, R9 build alike, so if he stays slim, we'll see how this affect his game and if he becomes a lot more muscular, that also might affect for instance his great long stride.




Let's not get so over the top, not regarding promising and the kid's real talent, but understanding the diff circumstances of many of the players mentioned. Stuff in life, NEVER is so black and white.

Pele and Maradona, were very young prodigies threw to field at a tender age due to not only heir talent, but because of the Clubs they were involved. Santos and Argentinos Jrs were small clubs in the context of their respective Leagues so when someone like them appears, coaches and the club itself will be more prone to use them, even more when in South America, specially in Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina, it's since the very early days of football a pretty common situation to make players debut in Pro Football being teenagers (even in more or less recent times, Aguero, Saviola, Aimar, Tevez...etc etc, everyone of them with diff enviroments (ages) and reasons started being teeangaers, not just because of their talent).

To make it more clear what I mean.
Di Stefano was always a prodigy, but you don't get a starting spot in that River, one of the most stacked teams ever, even being him.
Neither if you are Messi in one of Barca's most successfull periods with a star player above the other in multiple roles, that doesn't happenn for multiple reasons, not only a stack team, but even strategically (more in this current world full of fishermen).
Of course due to their personalities and talent they knock down the wall, more than knocking at the door first division, yet in a healthy of any huge club, youngsters, even Genius alike, will have to deal with other enviroment than current turmoil Barca is since time, being forced to give chances not always in the more proper way, yet sometimes you can get the jackpot with a Lamine and pray injuries doesn't turn everything to the worst.

Genius and phenoms like Pele, Messi, R9, or even Ney..."are all running, dribbling and bluster at these ages, full of energy and skill, but very much more drive towards a focal point and do something" BECAUSE THEY CAN, to not notice the CLEAR gap in power, pace, control and manage of space and time of such fellas, AT SUCH pace in comparison with Lamine, does not get what a Pele or any of these fellas were since a freaking boy.

It's so preposterous their level of talent in such regard, that it's logical that they will play like in their backgarden, in the park, dribbling everyone. There is a huge difference in atributes when you can watch any of those fellas as teens, no matter it's not first division in Barca.

Yamile doesn't have that, even if he is extremely gifted, he is extremely gifted in such regard like Iniesta, Figo, players alike, that even being extraordinary dribblers, they have to think more what to do, when to do it, how to do it. What is special from Lamine (yet I I have very few doubts that fellas like Laudrup, Iniesta, Figo would have been similar in their decision making if their circumstances would force them to play regularly at 17 under the biggest spotlight) it's that the kid does it with an aplomb, with a mange of resources on every aspect, even enrgy wise, extraordinary, very special player indeed. Yet it's a silly comparison when that comparison it with those fellas. Even with his idol Neymar.



I really don't agree with this, AT ALL, from the physical phenom/genius alike players, that have been prodigies since a very young age, I can't see with Kiki any extraordinary decision making, he is a player that even right now doesn't have that, nor will have when he is throw in the same bowl of Maradona, Pele and cia. Kiki being harsh, extremely unfair, it's dumb in that bowl.

Neymar needed a full season to adapt to Barcelona, and he moved clubs at 21. (In retrospect it might have had something to do with allegedly arriving underweight due to injury and/or illness. I'd be remiss not to note Yamal's also probably similarly some way off his ideal weight right now.) He was ultimately nearly a Messi-level dribbler, yet at the time people'd talk excitedly about how great he is in spurts when given space.

It's ridiculous to want to project young players' physical progress with any real confidence, and that obviously dictates so much about their playstyle (as you touch on), and ultimately "talent". I've never once compared Yamal's dribbling ability to Messi's (although he is exceptional - literally ranked 1st in Europe right now, despite his mostly very functional approach). I wouldn't necessarily expect him to even reach Vini or Mbappe's level (players whose sheer explosiveness is genuinely exceptional). But then, he isn't Maradona, or Ronaldo (who did bulk up significantly throughout this stage of his career), or Mbappe. It's fairly obvious he has a lot of room to grow in most physical areas. It's conversely very difficult to believe any young player will outright suffer due to physical development, short of injuries or gross mismanagement in training. (Certainly not impossible, but also genuinely remote.)

Messi could always make the ball do anything along the ground (he got much more consistent at it over time, of course), and his ability to link-up with other players while driving was immense (these are things he clearly had over Yamal, to be clear), but he was also very visibly raw at times his first year or two, clearly trying things he couldn't do, and learning the extent of his abilites. The idea he had, or could have had, a similar passing profile as a teenager is basically fiction, IMO. Yamal's timing, vision, and passing range right now are things Messi took more than a few years to acquire.

Yamile doesn't have that, even if he is extremely gifted, he is extremely gifted in such regard like Iniesta, Figo, players alike, that even being extraordinary dribblers, they have to think more what to do, when to do it, how to do it. What is special from Lamine (yet I I have very few doubts that fellas like Laudrup, Iniesta, Figo would have been similar in their decision making if their circumstances would force them to play regularly at 17 under the biggest spotlight) it's that the kid does it with an aplomb, with a mange of resources on every aspect, even enrgy wise, extraordinary, very special player indeed. Yet it's a silly comparison when that comparison it with those fellas. Even with his idol Neymar.

Most of these comparisons are ultimately quite spurious, sometimes almost to the point of farce. Laudrup was a Messi or Neymar-like talent, or something very close, a genuine teen prodigy, and a nearly unrivaled passer. (Hell, he was faster than at least the former, and Neymar's career and physicality around 17-19 can be scrutinized much more closely by anyone who has that appetite.) It's possible he'd have progressed faster had he picked a different club to Juventus (he says he was completely unaware they'd planned to loan him out to Lazio), but ultimately it's very, very clear his career at that level took a very different trajectory. (And their mentality is simply incomparable.)

We've seen how long it took Figo and Iniesta to pull their games together at the same exact environment. It required years of careful nurturing and experience (and in Iniesta's case, physical development) to make them world-class players.

You've picked three players who clearly and sincerely never could have matched Yamal's development for exceptionslly well-documented reasons, and you're specifically narrowing on their peak ball-carrying skills (Yamal already has better pure delivery than two of them, and plenty of imagination) to make it seem in any way an apt comparison, when of course their consistant improvement in that area over years exemplifies why that's such a fundamentally misguided concept, and how Lamine does stand-out from these type of prospects.

 

[Fobal]

Neymar needed a full season to adapt to Barcelona, and he moved clubs at 21. (In retrospect it might have had something to do with allegedly arriving underweight due to injury and/or illness. I'd be remiss not to note Yamal's also probably similarly some way off his ideal weight right now.) He was ultimately nearly a Messi-level dribbler, yet at the time people'd talk excitedly about how great he is in spurts when given space.

Ney's firts days in Barca it's an entirely diff enviroment and situation, from him being involved in a transfer, to a diff country, to a Barca in their prime and a large etc. And also that it's Barca, Ney already had at the same age another gear in comparison with Lamine. Yet Ney its closer to Yamile, or better said otherwise, than other geniuses mentioned in terms of his body type and some traits.

It's ridiculous to want to project young players' physical progress with any real confidence, and that obviously dictates so much about their playstyle (as you touch on), and ultimately "talent". I've never once compared Yamal's dribbling ability to Messi's (although he is exceptional - literally ranked 1st in Europe right now, despite his mostly very functional approach). I wouldn't necessarily expect him to even reach Vini or Mbappe's level (players whose sheer explosiveness is genuinely exceptional). But then, he isn't Maradona, or Ronaldo (who did bulk up significantly throughout this stage of his career), or Mbappe. It's fairly obvious he has a lot of room to grow in most physical areas. It's conversely very difficult to believe any young player will outright suffer due to physical development, short of injuries or gross mismanagement in training. (Certainly not impossible, but also genuinely remote.)

I'm actually not trying to do that, nor to predict the future, if I make some comparison, it's for the sake of the present and current style and characteristics of Lamine and the type of players right now I can associate with him. Things might change in his style/atributes or not in the future due to his growing, it's pure extra specualtion.
The main thing I'm stating it's that if someone sees in terms of style, physique and atributes a similar player to Pele, Maradona, Messi (or even a lesser atheltic version of them like Zico alike) player in Yamal, it's not actually watching what type of player Lamine is right now. What attributes he has, what main characteristics he possesses. Another subject is his personality, his virtues and the aura reminding those fellas or even "lesser" extraordinary footballers from the past he already shows.

Messi could always make the ball do anything along the ground (he got much more consistent at it over time, of course), and his ability to link-up with other players while driving was immense (these are things he clearly had over Yamal, to be clear), but he was also very visibly raw at times his first year or two, clearly trying things he couldn't do, and learning the extent of his abilites. The idea he had, or could have had, a similar passing profile as a teenager is basically fiction, IMO. Yamal's timing, vision, and passing range right now are things Messi took more than a few years to acquire.

I agree to a certain point, yet not entirely. Messi always had the same style (and attributes) since a kido, he always had a huge passing range, but when you have what instance Pele, Diego and Messi had since a boys, you'll tend to run over entire teams (even if between them, they had diff tendencies, Diego was always even in his more "sellfish" days, more team oriented, more of a midfielder, Pele and Messi were always more forward oriented players).

For lack of better word, I consider them "wild cards" in their approach since day one, you don't have to teach them nothing, yet like with any player guide them and surround them to get the best of them. They are a combination of very very rare pure fotballing ability and exceptional athletism that will impose in an almost very instict way for lack of better word, even if they still have the reading and understanding of the game since a baby. They will combine attempting sthg that it's not precisly the easiest path, like dribbling throught a wall, yet more often than not, they can end that same play with a great pass once they create that space. They'll fail sometimes, yet they can try and pull out such plays almost constantly. The stamina and electricity form those specimens when young is off the charts too. They were different animals and that has to be taken in consideration when analyzing these fellas appraach to the game while being teens.

As a side note, It's not fiction Messi's passing range since he first stepped into a pitch, any vid from Messi in La Masia or even in Newells, he is basicly the same player. Yet of course during his carreer he simply put more focus on some aspect given his age, team profile and needs (being more cerebral, more frantic, less frantic, etc etc).
Yet indeed because of Lamine's pretty clear understanding of what he has in his bag and not, his maturity is off the charts in such regard. And since what he has in his bag it's pretty obvious extraordinary, even if not having the traits of the recently three mentioned, he is a fecking fantastic talent that can even end having a better carreer and a similar praise or apreciation.

Most of these comparisons are ultimately quite spurious, sometimes almost to the point of farce. Laudrup was a Messi or Neymar-like talent, or something very close, a genuine teen prodigy, and a nearly unrivaled passer. (Hell, he was faster than at least the former, and Neymar's career and physicality around 17-19 can be scrutinized much more closely by anyone who has that appetite.) It's possible he'd have progressed faster had he picked a different club to Juventus (he says he was completely unaware they'd planned to loan him out to Lazio), but ultimately it's very, very clear his career at that level took a very different trajectory. (And their mentality is simply incomparable.)
We've seen how long it took Figo and Iniesta to pull their games together at the same exact environment. It required years of careful nurturing and experience (and in Iniesta's case, physical development) to make them world-class players.
You've picked three players who clearly and sincerely never could have matched Yamal's development for exceptionslly well-documented reasons, and you're specifically narrowing on their peak ball-carrying skills (Yamal already has better pure delivery than two of them, and plenty of imagination) to make it seem in any way an apt comparison, when of course their consistant improvement in that area over years exemplifies why that's such a fundamentally misguided concept, and how Lamine does stand-out from these type of prospects.

I've chose those players, not because I think Lamine is a copycat of them, nor their carrers, etc...but because they share sthg with Lamine: Great intelligence to understand what they have as atributes and exploit them in the best possible way, resume in some great maturity in his decision making. While at the same time being extraordinary in his talent and skills (not BTW a Muller, Batistuta type of player that also were bright to exploit their best atributes, yet not in such realm of talent). Also because these players I've mentioned I feel closer to Lamine's atributes, he can be extremely proud if he ends playing regularly through his carreer like them given he is more comparable in terms of atributes with those than with a Pele.

PD1: Laudrup for me, one of my favorite players ever, it's clearly not a Diego, Edson, Lio type, at all.
PD2: Ney as extraordinary as he was and since day one for me a "better" dribbler than Lamine, neither is for me in such realm. Better I mean in terms of having more suitable atributes, not that Lamine with what he already has cannot be in ocasions more productive.

All in all what I find incorrect it's to throw associations with new players in terms of atributes and style that I do not find suitable, nor really similar. Mostly because we have stuff that connects them (same club, age group, etc etc). It's like when people said Jude the new Di Stefano, yes he can end producing even better numbers, he plays all over the place, yet Alfredo was quite a differente player than Jude and had quite a different progression in terms of roles, with different atributes.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

I was probably a bit too snappy earlier when on the surface I agree with most of what you say. It was late, and some of it looked so familiar it felt a lot like apologetics. Apologies if I came off as overly agressive.

As a side note, It's not fiction Messi's passing range since he first stepped into a pitch, any vid from Messi in La Masia or even in Newells, he is basicly the same player. Yet of course during his carreer he simply put more focus on some aspect given his age, team profile and needs (being more cerebral, more frantic, less frantic, etc etc).

Messi spent years mastering those lobbed balls over the top that come so naturally to Yamal. Not just in terms of timing and awareness but also, very visibly, technique. (People here would laugh at him spamming them sometimes, even by around 2011 or later. And while he could always pass or shoot, earlier in his career it felt mostly very obvious which option he was going for at any given time.) He's never had Yamal's trivela (and other, less often used techniques, like those inverted crosses from the Euros), which adds a whole new range of angles to his options in their favorite positions. Saying he had those elements already is not something I can agree with at all.

(Conversly, I struggle to believe through balls are an actual weakness of Lamine's game right now, or something he'd have any trouble adding if it is, given any application. His sheer touch is insane.)

I've chose those players, not because I think Lamine is a copycat of them, nor their carrers, etc...but because they share sthg with Lamine: Great intelligence to understand what they have as atributes and exploit them in the best possible way, resume in some great maturity in his decision making. While at the same time being extraordinary in his talent and skills

But even paring this all down to the narrowest, most generous interpretation of what you've previously said, this idea that they'd have arrived at that maturity as early as Yamal under similar circumstances (or hell, given Lamine's actual body and their brains) is simply demonstrably false. It says as much about the precociousness of his decision making as it does about the skillset underpinning it.

 

[Wand of a right foot]

I was probably a bit too snappy earlie the surface I agree with most of what you say. It was late, and some of it looked so familiar it felt a lot like apologetics. Apologies if I came off as overly agressive.



Messi spent years mastering those lobbed balls over the top that come so naturally to Yamal. Not just in terms of timing and awareness but also, very visibly, technique. (People here would laugh at him spamming them sometimes, even by around 2011 or later. And while he could always pass or shoot, earlier in his career it felt mostly very obvious which option he was going for at any given time.) He's never had Yamal's trivela (and other, less often used techniques, like those inverted crosses from the Euros), which adds a whole new range of angles to his options in their favorite positions. Saying he had those elements already is not something I can agree with at all.

(Conversly, I struggle to believe through balls are an actual weakness of Lamine's game right now, or something he'd have any trouble adding if it is, given any application. His sheer touch is insane.)



But even paring this all down to the narrowest, most generous interpretation of what you've previously said, this idea that they'd have arrived at that maturity as early as Yamal under similar circumstances (or hell, given Lamine's actual body and their brains) is simply demonstrably false. It says as much about the precociousness of his decision making as it does about the skillset underpinning it.

If you want to compare Messi and Yamal in terms of basic attributes in theirs teens:

1. Dribbling: Messi was better and more efficient . Yamal is a very good dribbler but Messi was on another level.

2. Final pass: Yamal is better in crossing, definitely. Messi was better at through passes.

3. Decision making: Yamal wins this one definitely. Messi wasn't brainless but because he was so good at dribbling, he'd ignore better options sometimes and just drivble past every one. Many times it'd still pay off only because he was extraterrestrial at it. Messi eventually mastered this aspect better than anyone.

4. Goalscoring: Whenever fully fit, Messi was better at it. But he played much less than Yamal because he was eased into the team and had injuries that kept him out for long periods of time while Yamal has being thrown into it and hasnt had succeed injuries so the stats may not suggest it.
For instance, Messi only became fairly regular at 18 years in 2005/6 and even than had to share the position with Giuly. Messi missed 3 months of their season in 2005/6 and 3 months in 2006/7 both teenage years. Count in the recovery period and it is easy to see how the injuries held him back. Yamal on the otherhand has no competitors in his position and has had comparitively injury free time thus far.

All in all, Yamal is 100% going to be the best of his generation unless a talent like Messi comes along which happens every 30 years. Interms of greatness, Yamal has more opportunity with Spain than Messi had with Argentina in the sense that Spain's NT has a footballing identity very similar to Barcelona and is currently the best NT around which wasn't true of a relatively shambolic Argentina team when Messi was 18.

 

[Fobal]

I was probably a bit too snappy earlier when on the surface I agree with most of what you say. It was late, and some of it looked so familiar it felt a lot like apologetics. Apologies if I came off as overly agressive.

Yeah it looked a bit that way, I have a tendency of not get dragg in those even if they are intentional, so no problem man, at all. I just like to talk about football, agreeing or not and I agree on many of the stuff you've said.

Messi spent years mastering those lobbed balls over the top that come so naturally to Yamal. Not just in terms of timing and awareness but also, very visibly, technique. (People here would laugh at him spamming them sometimes, even by around 2011 or later. And while he could always pass or shoot, earlier in his career it felt mostly very obvious which option he was going for at any given time.) He's never had Yamal's trivela (and other, less often used techniques, like those inverted crosses from the Euros), which adds a whole new range of angles to his options in their favorite positions. Saying he had those elements already is not something I can agree with at all.

(Conversly, I struggle to believe through balls are an actual weakness of Lamine's game right now, or something he'd have any trouble adding if it is, given any application. His sheer touch is insane.)

The thing it's what I've said before, there are very very few players with the traits of Messi, Diego, Pele that can take entire teams time and again within the same match, so naturally they will go for it time and again...they just can since the first day someone put a ball in their feet.
In fact the treatment against them since very very young was always ruthless because even rivals detect the instant danger of their traits.
There are vids of Messi at 16 being massacred due to his will to go time after time facing everyone.
As a side note, injuries, not just gowing up, changed games/style/approach too. Diego from Argentinos Jrs (specially) and Pre Injury Barca, it's not the same player at all from his Napoli days, sthg that rarely it's spoken. He became a way less of free soul and became more pragmatic and developed himself in almost a pure midfielder instead of his pure forward days with midfeilder passing traits of his teen days.

I get what you say about Messi actually not playing more regularly as a passer, but just watch also vids of Messi at 16 and the passing range it's already there (even younger). He would be Messi and indeed a lot Messier, because sometimes he never dosified himself, was extremely sellfish in ocassions too. In many ways Barca oblied him to dosify himself, if he wanted to keep himself healthy and not broken in two.
At the same time the capability to decide and actually pull out a weighted pass with effect after leaving three players in the dust CONSTANTLY, it's just extremely special. That combination of stamina, balance, skills and even dare it's extremely rare, it's not Lamine at all.
You have to have the sort of package those fellas were born with.They will play more calm, more midfield oriented roles, more playmaker alike, more "mature" in some way, mostly when getting older, it's natural too, but those traits are always there since day one.

PD: A trivela it's just a way of striking the ball, nothing to make such a fuss, for me.
PD2: never said Lamine struggles with throught balls at all, dunno why you've got such impression. He has a great weighted pass.

But even paring this all down to the narrowest, most generous interpretation of what you've previously said, this idea that they'd have arrived at that maturity as early as Yamal under similar circumstances (or hell, given Lamine's actual body and their brains) is simply demonstrably false. It says as much about the precociousness of his decision making as it does about the skillset underpinning it.

Like Ive said before, the traits, style, physical atributes, way of playing it's what made me throw the names I've mentioned to the mix, that I find more suitable, closer to Yamile, even if those names aren't copycats at all.
In fact in the same "game" Messi was always more Zico alike than Diego alike.

Now talking about your point here, the reality it's that we'll never know, because they didn't had the exposure of Lamine given how Barca had to throw him so young to the Lions and while also is a testament of the kid talent (and head) with Barca being so dependant in their kids in recent times (not just him).
Fellas like Laudrup, Figo, Iniesta always looked to me like the sort of extremely bright players in terms of using their best tools to maximize their impact and to not exposure themselves in unncessary attemps since day one. Playing the silly game of if my grandpa had wheels he would be a bycicle, I could bet that most if not all of them would have look great in Yamal's shoes, yet we certainly do not know and Yamal it's actually doing it. At the same time, I do not give that much of importance to ages, I like to dig more into styles, atributes, physique, etc to draw paralelisms.

Putting too much focus on age for me it's a mistake, more when someone tries to find similarities, style, etc.. That aspect of age can get fascinating, it's remarkable, but would not exactly speak of the abilities, traits, style of the player in question.
The debut or consolidation of players earlier or later, had so many other aspects outside the player itself involved, that do not matter as much as it might seem. Of course I get that creates a huge aura and fascinates, people from other teams were going to Argentinos Jrs matches to watch that little kid doing his stuff, yet Diego would have been Diego if he had like Alfredo in the 40's in River to wait for his chance more than his talent deserved.

 

[lexisonfire]

The point on Pele is a silly one. Goal scoring isn’t inherently easier

Goal-scoring is indeed harder thus strikers tend to earn more overall, but there have been more 17 year old prodigy goalscorers e.g. Pele, Rooney, Owen, Mbappe than 17yo playmakers. It's rarer and more impressive for a 17yo to have world-class creativity and passing technique to execute his vision consistently at the highest level; Yamal is so calm and polished like he's been playing with adults for ages, he doesn't even have that rawness to his game like Rooney or CR7's annoying obsession with stepovers as a young winger.

Best teenager ever may be a slight axeggaration given how good Messi and R9 were as teenagers. Best 17 year old is more apt.

Barring injury he'll have a few shots at becoming the youngest BdO winner eclipsing R9, if Spain and Barca do well in the next few seasons.

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

Is there a point to draw any conclusion at who is better while being a teenager? It`s a moot point, considering what matters is going for maturity, reaching top level and maintaining that level for the longest period possible. Besides, Messi is absolutely unique player. God Tier level who easily carried all that insane potential in his teen years into maturity. A level above Lamine and others easily.

That being said, Lamine is top tier player. If he progresses well into maturity and i think he will, he is easily Ballon D Or material - with proper coaching and if he has good material physically wise. We all know the tragedy of R9 - who is another God Tier player, at least for me.

 

[izec]

If he does not pick up heavy injuries, he will win ballon d'ors. Question is how many

 

[Wand of a right foot]

Goal-scoring is indeed harder thus strikers tend to earn more overall, but there have been more 17 year old prodigy goalscorers e.g. Pele, Rooney, Owen, Mbappe than 17yo playmakers. It's rarer and more impressive for a 17yo to have world-class creativity and passing technique to execute his vision consistently at the highest level; Yamal is so calm and polished like he's been playing with adults for ages, he doesn't even have that rawness to his game like Rooney or CR7's annoying obsession with stepovers as a young winger.


Barring injury he'll have a few shots at becoming the youngest BdO winner eclipsing R9, if Spain and Barca do well in the next few seasons.

That is true quite simply because Spain have a great side and the philosophy is very similar to that of Barcelona so he doesn't really have to adapt to a different style.

But that does not mean he is better than R9 or Messi because the former played for PSV and later had very little game time in the first team at 17 and had to contend with significant injuries at 18,19 and 20 years. The first relatively injury free season he had was 2008/9 he won the ballon d'or.

Lamine is a veteran compared to Messi at his stage. I still believe that interms of raw talent Messi was better although Yamal is a true generational talent in his own right; what amazes me most and something I have not seen from such a young player is his decision making and in his final delivery particularly crosses.

I never bought the Mbappe hype because alot of it was about raw pace than technical excellence of the other 3 I mentioned.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

If you want to compare Messi and Yamal in terms of basic attributes in theirs teens:

1. Dribbling: Messi was better and more efficient . Yamal is a very good dribbler but Messi was on another level.

If we want to get that granular about it, Yamal's dribbling last year was already much more than Messi'd shown in his first-team cameos at seventeen. (I'd argue it was generally more effective than Messi's dribbling week-to-week in Barca B, for that matter -- by the limited game footage readily available, at least -- if never quite as neat.)

He's made his mark very early last year (this was his third game of the season, I think, and probably first start), and by late mid-season had genuine breakout games like the Brazil friendly (outside of the Euros, he was often pretty rampant for Spain in general). A year or two can be everything at this stage. It's just that he hasn't actually shown that same acceleration and agility yet, or even the control, and there's little reason to assume he ever truly will.

For instance, Messi only became fairly regular at 18 years in 2005/6 and even than had to share the position with Giuly. Messi missed 3 months of their season in 2005/6 and 3 months in 2006/7 both teenage years. Count in the recovery period and it is easy to see how the injuries held him back. Yamal on the otherhand has no competitors in his position and has had comparitively injury free time thus far.

Messi was basically a starter as soon as the 05/06 season kicked off. He'd been phased in a little later in the league due to registration issues, and occasionally rotated with Giuly, but he also started every major game he was available for. (Obviously injuries did limit his playing time in those years.)

(Giuly was a decent player, incidentally, but hardly above the other options Barca had last season on the wings. It's not really what you're getting at, but this broader narrative Yamal only played because of their financial problems is both irrelevant and inaccurate. He was good enough to play at nearly any Spanish or English club straight away.)

Is there a point to draw any conclusion at who is better while being a teenager?

I mean yes, obviously. Lamine's a teen right now, so we can't exactly talk about his prime yet, or more importantly, make any type of real prediction about his future without comparing him to similar major talents.

Besides, football fans are naturally interested in the metrics of youth players' developement, and there's a genuine historical significance to it in a sense -- what he's doing right now is barely precedented (cirmustances play their part in it, sure), and the few players who have matched it are some of the most talented the game has seen. Wanting to contextualize that is quite natural.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

Lots of interesting little bits here again, incidentally:

 

[Wand of a right foot]

If we want to get that granular about it, Yamal's dribbling last year was already much more than Messi'd shown in his first-team cameos at seventeen. (I'd argue it was generally more effective than Messi's dribbling week-to-week in Barca B, for that matter -- by the limited game footage readily available, at least -- if never quite as neat.)

He's made his mark very early last year (this was his third game of the season, I think, and probably first start), and by late mid-season had genuine breakout games like the Brazil friendly (outside of the Euros, he was often pretty rampant for Spain in general). A year or two can be everything at this stage. It's just that he hasn't actually shown that same acceleration and agility yet, or even the control, and there's little reason to assume he ever truly will.



Messi was basically a starter as soon as the 05/06 season kicked off. He'd been phased in a little later in the league due to registration issues, and occasionally rotated with Giuly, but he also started every major game he was available for. (Obviously injuries did limit his playing time in those years.)

(Giuly was a decent player, incidentally, but hardly above the other options Barca had last season on the wings. It's not really what you're getting at, but this broader narrative Yamal only played because of their financial problems is both irrelevant and inaccurate. He was good enough to play at nearly any Spanish or English club straight away.)



I mean yes, obviously. Lamine's a teen right now, so we can't exactly talk about his prime yet, or more importantly, make any type of real prediction about his future without comparing him to similar major talents.

Besides, football fans are naturally interested in the metrics of youth players' developement, and there's a genuine historical significance to it in a sense -- what he's doing right now is barely precedented (cirmustances play their part in it, sure), and the few players who have matched it are some of the most talented the game has seen. Wanting to contextualize that is quite natural.

1. Yamal and other La masia graduates have had to be thrown into it because Barcelona could not buy ready made talents. Obviously they are vary talented; in the case of Yamal potentially generational. Ideally, Players at the biggest clubs are eased into it because there are established stars already plying their trade and there is no need to risk injuries because they are not fully developed physically at that age.

When Messi emerged in his teens, Barca were already doing vary very well; every position was well covered. No way they would throw Messi, as uber talented as he was into the first 11. He only started regularly at age 18 and had his share of injuries as mentioned. Fortunately, it did not hamper his development.

2. Dribbling: surely you cant compare them at age 16 or 17, Messi's first season in the senior team was at 17 and he played very few games then. But, if you must compare, the stats say otherwise; Messi completed 4.51 dribbles per game in 2005/6 ucl plus la liga. Yamal at the same age this season has completed 3.4 dribbles per game in laliga and 3 per game in the ucl.

3. Giuly: Giuly was better than anyone Barca had last season in that position. Who is Yamal's understudy? I cant think of anyone good in that position. Raphina played there before but was terrible.

 

[Zehner]

I think such comparisons are pointless because there are so many circumstances that influence a player's breakthrough. Impossible to tell how Yamal would have done in Messi's shoes and vice versa. Fact of the matter is that Yamal had his breakthrough earlier and that Messi (at the very least) was one of if not the the best player in history at the of 21 and it is very, very unlikely that anyone currently playing professional football will reach this level.

Personally, I think that such a supremely talented player as Messi would have set a new standard for 16 or 17 year olds as well if given the chance. He's simply one of a kind.

 

[Fobal]

If we want to get that granular about it, Yamal's dribbling last year was already much more than Messi'd shown in his first-team cameos at seventeen. (I'd argue it was generally more effective than Messi's dribbling week-to-week in Barca B, for that matter -- by the limited game footage readily available, at least -- if never quite as neat.)

He's made his mark very early last year (this was his third game of the season, I think, and probably first start), and by late mid-season had genuine breakout games like the Brazil friendly (outside of the Euros, he was often pretty rampant for Spain in general). A year or two can be everything at this stage. It's just that he hasn't actually shown that same acceleration and agility yet, or even the control, and there's little reason to assume he ever truly will.



Messi was basically a starter as soon as the 05/06 season kicked off. He'd been phased in a little later in the league due to registration issues, and occasionally rotated with Giuly, but he also started every major game he was available for. (Obviously injuries did limit his playing time in those years.)

(Giuly was a decent player, incidentally, but hardly above the other options Barca had last season on the wings. It's not really what you're getting at, but this broader narrative Yamal only played because of their financial problems is both irrelevant and inaccurate. He was good enough to play at nearly any Spanish or English club straight away.)



I mean yes, obviously. Lamine's a teen right now, so we can't exactly talk about his prime yet, or more importantly, make any type of real prediction about his future without comparing him to similar major talents.

Besides, football fans are naturally interested in the metrics of youth players' developement, and there's a genuine historical significance to it in a sense -- what he's doing right now is barely precedented (cirmustances play their part in it, sure), and the few players who have matched it are some of the most talented the game has seen. Wanting to contextualize that is quite natural.

Come on, the only thing that I would deemed more effective, it's because Messi would try to dribble an entire team and end being hacked most of times while Yamal will do his more collective game at this stage and in any case that is me being generous.
Also like I've said before, the way Messi was already treated at 16 in youngsters or Barca B, it's not even close to how Yamal was treated nor IS treated, given the style from both and the already fear at every action with Messi (wasteful or not at the end) was generating. It's a complete and entrirely diff situation and basicly product of the type of menace with his dribbling Messi already had (and always had).

I'm the less interest fella in metrics in the entire world, in fact metrics it's the sort of stuff that puts for some people players like Cristiano in the same realm of a Messi type of player and in this case even Yamile right now, as promising as he can end being.

There is no real world were Yamal has shown at any point the same type of atributes Messi shown since a teen specially in dribbling, the scenarios are bigger in the age comparison: absolutely, not the atributes, style, game.

For me people seeing a very similar game/traits to Messi's it's the stuff I do not agree, this sort of comparisons happen all the time.
If Mbappe ends winning galore in Madrid, plus even perhaps another WC, there will be lots pf people seeing him on pair even in their games with Lionel. On the other hand, some fans will say: "Messi at his age already had won 3 million Ballon de Or's, bla bla bla.." bollocks, that's not the case, that's not what Messi has over Kiki as a player, Kiki developed in a way diff enviroment and he can end winning tons from now being older, even more than Messi; yet it's the type of player, game, what separates them in my view and why Lionel is a superior one for me.

In the case of Yamal it's on the other side of the coin, him doing so much that young doesn't create the scenario where he has traits a la Maradona, Pele or Messi, not from what we've seen and those type of traits, are more of the type being born with, than adquired.
On the other hand projecting that Yamal can win as much or more it's not a problem, it can happen and I don't think it's even bad to be positive and imagine this scenario (even if it's not healthy to put that type of expections either). And he can even end having the biggest status from evry player in the history of the game, who fecking knows.

Yet the first situation, it's the type of stuff that can end even dammaging the kid progression, the match prior to this last one vs Benfica (didn't watch this, seems was a cracking game) against Getafe in La Liga , he was starting to show signs of acting over the top: trying fancy shots instead of corrects one, trying for instance a silly non productive at all and bad executed rabona, not being active enough, lacking a bit of pace and getting into black alleys for trying to dribble in areas that does his style it's not entriely suited (even if at times some rebound helped him). That looked like the kid buying too much on his hype, that should be adress, it's normal, he still is great and very calm and compose fella, but those were plays that he must avoid and keep on track with what he did best so far.

Anyway, I think at this point I won't agree with some views on the kid regarding his atributes and style and I don't think I'm that clear trying to explain why I think that way, so I'll leave it here before it's seen like some sort of attack on the kid or any poster that feels he has shown the level of ability and atributes of the Diegos, Edsons and Lios mentioned.

In any case it's fantastic to see him, Wirtz, Musiala, and others that will come to make the game more pleasing and shut up a bit the over the top nostalgic fans that always existed since 1920, I've read football articles since the beggining of time, that are hillarious on how every period shyte on on previous ones.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

Come on, the only thing that I would deemed more effective, it's because Messi would try to dribble an entire team and end being hacked most of times while Yamal will do his more collective game at this stage and in any case that is me being generous.

It's primarily because I just don't actually believe he was immediately as good at it than as he was a year later (and that was at third-tier level). (There used to be a limited but sizeable amount of footage of these games readily available to draw conclusions from, but right now most of it seems to have been gated or deleted where I've looked.)

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

He is what we thought Angel Gomes would become when Gomes got to first team.

 

[Shaw's Shank Redemption]

I never really followed Barcelona because i detest La Liga - but back then i dont remember the big hype for Messi especially during the Ronaldinho, Eto'o era. He was deemed a great world class potential youngster but maybe not a generational talent that he turned in to after 2-3 years in the first team.

Yamal seems to have the generational talent tag on his name since he broke through so young.

Maybe im wrong though but i think Messi turning to the player he is today maybe blinding people of how he was deemed in his first 2 seasons at Barcelona.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

Messi had huge hype as soon as he was promoted to the first team at eighteen (and following a dominant performance at the U21 World Cup during off-season -- Maradona'd said something along the lines of "I've seen the player who'll take my place, and his name is Messi" in the aftermath; Ronaldinho'd later said he wasn't even the best player on his team in an interview mid-season). An early game against Osasuna, followed by a strong performance away against Madrid, largely set the tone, and of course there was the game away at Chelsea later the same season.

Here's a clip largely spelling out this very point from his second season (skip to 10:20). He placed second in the Balon d'Or that year, and twentieth the one before that.

United fans were probably somewhat isolated from the noise due to having Rooney and Ronaldo to fuss about (and the insular nature of the English game at the time in general).

 

[Wand of a right foot]

I never really followed Barcelona because i detest La Liga - but back then i dont remember the big hype for Messi especially during the Ronaldinho, Eto'o era. He was deemed a great world class potential youngster but maybe not a generational talent that he turned in to after 2-3 years in the first team.

Yamal seems to have the generational talent tag on his name since he broke through so young.

Maybe im wrong though but i think Messi turning to the player he is today maybe blinding people of how he was deemed in his first 2 seasons at Barcelona.

Not true at all. I watched the game when he scored his first goal for Barcelona; the commentator mentioned that he has the same buyout clause as Ronaldinho. That was 2005 when Ronaldinho was considered the bpitw.

When Ronaldinho won the ballon d'or he was asked how it felt like being the bpitw. His response was that he wasn't even the best player at Barcelona, it was Messi.
And Messi won the youth world cup as the player of the tournament at age 18.

Barcelona's first team often used to specifically watch Messi during his time in their youth team. There are several interviews by senior Barcelona players and the likelihood of Fabregas and Pique talking about how he was destined for greatness given his obvious talent.

If anything, Messi had even more hype about him than Yamal. Only that there was no social media. You'd only get information from sports news or while watching matches.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

I never really followed Barcelona because i detest La Liga - but back then i dont remember the big hype for Messi especially during the Ronaldinho, Eto'o era. He was deemed a great world class potential youngster but maybe not a generational talent that he turned in to after 2-3 years in the first team.

Yamal seems to have the generational talent tag on his name since he broke through so young.

Maybe im wrong though but i think Messi turning to the player he is today maybe blinding people of how he was deemed in his first 2 seasons at Barcelona.

Nah I remember reading football magazines at the time that kept going on about this magical talent from Barcelona to the point where it frustrated me that people kept hyping Messi up/going on about him when I hadn’t seen him because I was a Rooney fan and wanted to believe he was better. He was considered something very special.

 

[Fobal]

It's primarily because I just don't actually believe he was immediately as good at it than as he was a year later (and that was at third-tier level). (There used to be a limited but sizeable amount of footage of these games readily available to draw conclusions from, but right now most of it seems to have been gated or deleted where I've looked.)

There are quite a lot of vids, just found this one I've posted time ago in Messi's thread:



Look how everytime he grabs the ball he becomes like the Vortex of a Tornado with everyone going after him in the most vehement way, Messi had to be stopped, even if it's in half the pitch. Yamal plays very differently, doesn't generate the same reaction because he has other atributes. Messi has the sort of atributes of once in a lifetime player, at the same this doesn't mean that the few players that had this talent always had the BEST carreer ever. This last thing it's what right now Yamal looking like a generational talent in many facets, might open the possibility of having a better carreer than anyone. Yet he doesn't play like Pele, Diego or Messi (even them also being diff among them).

The next vid, to be fair it's not a compilation, just one game, yet we can see how Yamal in the same stage he played even on a flank, like a launcher with ocasional runs to the open space and then hurt with his dribbling. He is not a freak that can grab a ball from his own central defender and go all over the pitch, time and again, this last "time and again" it's also a charcateristic from freaks like Messi, it's not just ocasioanl that others might pull out in ocassions (even if it's also in the same style or level of ability). There are very very few in the history of the game and are mostly the usual suspects named as best footbalelrs ever. All of them were more playful when being young, were more individualistic, had a more frantic and loose game, even in the case of Messi in enviroments like Barca that always would have a tendecy for a passing game. It's Messi and to a lesser degree fellas like Iniesta the helped opening the door for a more let's say "brazilian, argentinian" type of approach with more dribbling, with a more let's say "free" game, not that academic.

 

[Joel Miller]

I never really followed Barcelona because i detest La Liga - but back then i dont remember the big hype for Messi especially during the Ronaldinho, Eto'o era. He was deemed a great world class potential youngster but maybe not a generational talent that he turned in to after 2-3 years in the first team.

Yamal seems to have the generational talent tag on his name since he broke through so young.

Maybe im wrong though but i think Messi turning to the player he is today maybe blinding people of how he was deemed in his first 2 seasons at Barcelona.

The hype around Messi was enormous. Ronaldinho fresh off of winning the ballon d’or declared that he wasn’t even the best player at his own club because there was an 18 year old he thought was better.

The minute he was promoted to train with the first team at 16 or 17 the talk was that there was a kid who was leaving Puyol and co on their asses from the first minute. Maradona himself after the youth World Cup that he had finally seen his successor.

He played against Juve at 17 and Capello raved about him afterwards, said he couldn’t believe a player his age could play like that, even tried to sign him immediately after. He’s always had the burden of having enormous hype around him, and of course when you’re an Argentinian attacker the burden is even greater because you’re instantly compared to the then greatest player ever in Diego.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

I'd been thinking he's looked better (and possibly quicker) already since the winter break. Then he went and did this:


(The video starts late, too.)

 

[OverratedOpinion]

I'd been thinking he's looked better (and possibly quicker) already since the winter break. Then he goes and does this:


(The video starts late, too.)

Absolutely filthy

Incredible player

 

[Lay]

It's like watching young Messi

 

[Fobal]

I'd been thinking he's looked better (and possibly quicker) already since the winter break. Then he went and did this:


(The video starts late, too.)

Tell me that the receiver of the ball did sthg with it and didn't wasted it

 

[Querulous Megapode]

Absolutely not.

 

[Fobal]

Absolutely not.

jizzuz

 

[Massive Spanner]

Messi had huge hype as soon as he was promoted to the first team at eighteen (and following a dominant performance at the U21 World Cup during off-season -- Maradona'd said something along the lines of "I've seen the player who'll take my place, and his name is Messi" in the aftermath; Ronaldinho'd later said he wasn't even the best player on his team in an interview mid-season). An early game against Osasuna, followed by a strong performance away against Madrid, largely set the tone, and of course there was the game away at Chelsea later the same season.

Here's a clip largely spelling out this very point from his second season (skip to 10:20). He placed second in the Balon d'Or that year, and twentieth the one before that.

United fans were probably somewhat isolated from the noise due to having Rooney and Ronaldo to fuss about (and the insular nature of the English game at the time in general).

Nah. I remember the 2006 world cup where he was already Argentina's most dangerous attacker (Riquelme aside) and being talked about as the next Maradona. Everyone knew he was something special.

 

[Fortitude]

I'd been thinking he's looked better (and possibly quicker) already since the winter break. Then he went and did this:


(The video starts late, too.)

It's clear he's bigger and stronger; growing and filling out. Getting harder and harder to shake off the ball. Coupled with his decision making, there's an absurdly talented youngster here. Don't think there's anyone else coming up in touching distance of his talent.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

Nah. I remember the 2006 world cup where he was already Argentina's most dangerous attacker (Riquelme aside) and being talked about as the next Maradona. Everyone knew he was something special.

He was special but he was an unused substitute in the 120 min match vs Germany when they were eliminated. Not sure he hit god mode until 2007/2008. I don't think it's crazy to compare Yamal and Messi at their respective ages. I refuse to believe Yamal or anybody will hit peak Messi levels again.

 

[Wand of a right foot]

Most obvious elite talent since Neymar but crucially isn't Brazilian.

 

[giorno]

Messi truly exploded in early 2007, but he'd been delayed by injuries before then. He was absolutely massively hyped, genuinely expected to enter goat discussions back when he was still 16/17. At 18 he was clowning Mourinho's Chelsea at SB in a CL R16 match - effectively ended Del Horno's career at Chelsea

Peckerman was criticized by many people - especially Maradona - for not playing him in 2006(gave him 10 minutes and he scored)

anyways, refer back to my post on this kid from March/April of last year, post International break

he's very much the same caliber of talent as Messi

 

[DWelbz19]

At the age of 17, what even is the weakest part of his game? The fact that he’s scoring at a good but not great rate for a winger?

 

[kouroux]

At the age of 17, what even is the weakest part of his game? The fact that he’s scoring at a good but not great rate for a winger?

That's not a weakness at all considering his age (or any age at all)