Lamine Yamal

[Querulous Megapode]

At these absurdly young ages, I've always had Pele and Maradona in a league of their own followed by what a 16-year old Cesc was doing,

No such animal existed. Cesc didn't break into the arsenal first team before turning 17 (he had three cup appearances the year before). Even then, I'd argue the hype that season was more about the promise and maturity he'd demonstrated at an age that's nearly unprecedented for the position, rather than the true standard of his performances. (Wilshere had a similar trajectory, I think, only actually breaking into the squad at 18.)

Yamal's legitimately better now at all the things Cesc truly stood out for at his peak. (Primarily his vision and lines-breaking delivery, for me. Arguably he's yet to prove the same facility at link-up, but I've little real doubt he'll reach that level soon enough, if he isn't there already.)

Maradona was almost certainly better at seventeen, from what I've seen. Maybe even better or comparable at the things that make Yamal's current profile so unique. I have very little reason to doubt Pele was roughly similar to Diego, in his day. Ronaldo broke out at 17, albeit at a much lower level, and reached his peak so naturally and smoothly it's possible he really was superior even then. Mbappe was arguably a better player the year he turned eighteen (highlight footage will always favor him do to his extreme explosiveness), but that season will have started when he was months older than Yamal right now, and I think he only truly started leaving a comparable mark around December.

There seems to be a very shallow pool to draw from, after that (the few great players who starred at seventeen did so at a lower level), but quite a few more options at eighteen, some of whom were certainly comparable. (Messi was already a top ten player in the world his first season just on sheer ability, but made very little impact in his cameos the year before. I'd argue even his Barca B appearances were inferior to Yamal's first real season as a pro.)

Honestly, this kid was arguably the player of the tournament at the Euros, and if not #1, then in the conversation to be so, and he's better now than he was then.

The remarkable thing about that tournament is largely what stands out about him even now -- he shouldn't have been that good. He clearly had all the tools in the world (including outstanding dribbling, given space), but not the physical maturity to truly force himself on games against strong opposition.

The absurd thing was how little interest he had in even trying - perfectly content to wait for the game to come to him, and make surgical impact in a way that very few players ever learn to do.

 

[Fortitude]

No such animal existed. Cesc didn't break into the arsenal first team before turning 17 (he had three cup appearances the year before). Even then, I'd argue the hype that season was more about the promise and maturity he'd demonstrated at an age that's nearly unprecedented for the position, rather than the true standard of his performances. (Wilshere had a similar trajectory, I think, only actually breaking into the squad at 18.)

Yamal's legitimately better now at all the things Cesc truly stood out for at his peak. (Primarily his vision and lines-breaking delivery, for me. Arguably he's yet to prove the same facility at link-up, but I've little real doubt he'll reach that level soon enough, if he isn't there already.)

Maradona was almost certainly better at seventeen, from what I've seen. Maybe even better or comparable at the things that make Yamal's current profile so unique. I have very little reason to doubt Pele was roughly similar to Diego, in his day. Ronaldo broke out at 17, albeit at a much lower level, and reached his peak so naturally and smoothly it's possible he really was superior even then. Mbappe was arguably a better player the year he turned eighteen (highlight footage will always favor him do to his extreme explosiveness), but that season will have started when he was months older than Yamal right now, and I think he only truly started leaving a comparable mark around December.

There seems to be a very shallow pool to draw from, after that (the few great players who starred at seventeen did so at a lower level), but quite a few more options at eighteen, some of whom were certainly comparable. (Messi was already a top ten player in the world his first season just on sheer ability, but made very little impact in his cameos the year before. I'd argue even his Barca B appearances were inferior to Yamal's first real season as a pro.)



The remarkable thing about that tournament is largely what stands out about him even now -- he shouldn't have been that good. He clearly had all the tools in the world (including outstanding dribbling, given space), but not the physical maturity to truly force himself on games against strong opposition.

The absurd thing was how little interest he had in even trying - perfectly content to wait for the game to come to him, and make surgical impact in a way that very few players ever learn to do.

Yeah the pool isn't particularly deep, which is why it's so fascinating and unique because these are the chosen ones, essentially and usually clubs are very wary of unleashing them even if they are "ready" I mean, you don't get to find out how ready they are until they come through adulthood without their body breaking down as a consequence of being overplayed as a nonadult; someone like Michael Owen being the poster boy for what can go wrong with the method.

Judgement is still out on whether it's OK for Yamal to be played so extensively at such a tender age. Perhaps he has the trajectory of other chosen ones, but perhaps it ruins him. We'll find out in due course.

re. Cesc. That's a good point as he was 17 for the league stuff. There was a huge hoo-ha about him fielding at 16 and performing as he did.

 

[Fobal]

Barca's production line is insane. How the hell do you get Messi and then a talent like Yamal in succession?

Yamal is entirely a La Masia product, Messi, even if young, was bought and Iniesta two, both weren't typical La Masia products AT ALL but of course after their success, La Masia will be more lean to produce/ and grab dribblers even if those aren't precisly big fellas, Lamine, Ansu are a consequence of what happen with Andres and Lio.

He has a level of ability that, injuries permitting, he's a potential multiple Ballon D'Or winner throughout his career.

By the mere look of his progression and talent, he looks like to be at the very least a contender with this progression

He's getting faster and stronger and his build is visibly changing as he turns into a young man, lest we forget he's still a boy, especially in footballing terms.

He is a teen and he is slim, but looks like a fella that can become bigger, this will affect his game, in some aspects for the good, in others his game might end affceted.
At first glance he doesn't look build stocky and strong like Pele, Diego, Messi...neither looks that he might become a Gullit, Kempes, R9 build alike, so if he stays slim, we'll see how this affect his game and if he becomes a lot more muscular, that also might affect for instance his great long stride.

At these absurdly young ages, I've always had Pele and Maradona in a league of their own followed by what a 16-year old Cesc was doing, but I think Yamal usurped him on that totem and is now creating separation. Honestly, this kid was arguably the player of the tournament at the Euros, and if not #1, then in the conversation to be so, and he's better now than he was then. His rise to prominence is mind-boggling, and to this point in time, you're going to be extremely hard-pressed to find other 17-year olds to be in the running with how good he is at the age he is, or certainly to be proving it. Even young Ronaldo (Brazil) and Messi weren't doing this much on such a grand set of stages, which again highlights how off the charts what Yamal is doing is. There's also the fact that Yamal has no World Cup at 17 to play in, with his earliest opportunity being 2026 when he'll already be 18, which is a shame because he's already proven what he's capable of on the international stage at 16. There's little reason to doubt the World Cup would have been any different for him (than the Euros were) had he got to feature in it at the same age as Pele was.

His game is so consummate, which is bizarre. Usually when you see the extreme end with phenoms, they are all running, dribbling and bluster at these ages, full of energy and skill, but very much more drive towards a focal point and do something. Yamal isn't like that at all. He constantly picks the shrewdest option and rarely overcooks anything - he is sooo hard to plan for and play against because his snapshot decisions are mostly impeccable. Get too overzealous in pressing him and he'll use your vigour to take you out the game with a one-two or an early pass; don't press him and he'll run at you; try and hold your shape and he will use that to whip in a dangerous pass or cross. It's a real divide I see in him amongst even the legendary teenagers such as: Pele, Maradona, Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar, Cruyff, Best.

Mbappe was another teen who had quite extraordinary decision making for his age, but nothing like this level of skill and craft, and that's not to slight Mbappe, rather, to state how much of a glitch this kid is.

Let's not get so over the top, not regarding promising and the kid's real talent, but understanding the diff circumstances of many of the players mentioned. Stuff in life, NEVER is so black and white.

Pele and Maradona, were very young prodigies threw to field at a tender age due to not only heir talent, but because of the Clubs they were involved. Santos and Argentinos Jrs were small clubs in the context of their respective Leagues so when someone like them appears, coaches and the club itself will be more prone to use them, even more when in South America, specially in Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina, it's since the very early days of football a pretty common situation to make players debut in Pro Football being teenagers (even in more or less recent times, Aguero, Saviola, Aimar, Tevez...etc etc, everyone of them with diff enviroments (ages) and reasons started being teeangaers, not just because of their talent).

To make it more clear what I mean.
Di Stefano was always a prodigy, but you don't get a starting spot in that River, one of the most stacked teams ever, even being him.
Neither if you are Messi in one of Barca's most successfull periods with a star player above the other in multiple roles, that doesn't happenn for multiple reasons, not only a stack team, but even strategically (more in this current world full of fishermen).
Of course due to their personalities and talent they knock down the wall, more than knocking at the door first division, yet in a healthy of any huge club, youngsters, even Genius alike, will have to deal with other enviroment than current turmoil Barca is since time, being forced to give chances not always in the more proper way, yet sometimes you can get the jackpot with a Lamine and pray injuries doesn't turn everything to the worst.

Genius and phenoms like Pele, Messi, R9, or even Ney..."are all running, dribbling and bluster at these ages, full of energy and skill, but very much more drive towards a focal point and do something" BECAUSE THEY CAN, to not notice the CLEAR gap in power, pace, control and manage of space and time of such fellas, AT SUCH pace in comparison with Lamine, does not get what a Pele or any of these fellas were since a freaking boy.

It's so preposterous their level of talent in such regard, that it's logical that they will play like in their backgarden, in the park, dribbling everyone. There is a huge difference in atributes when you can watch any of those fellas as teens, no matter it's not first division in Barca.

Yamile doesn't have that, even if he is extremely gifted, he is extremely gifted in such regard like Iniesta, Figo, players alike, that even being extraordinary dribblers, they have to think more what to do, when to do it, how to do it. What is special from Lamine (yet I I have very few doubts that fellas like Laudrup, Iniesta, Figo would have been similar in their decision making if their circumstances would force them to play regularly at 17 under the biggest spotlight) it's that the kid does it with an aplomb, with a mange of resources on every aspect, even enrgy wise, extraordinary, very special player indeed. Yet it's a silly comparison when that comparison it with those fellas. Even with his idol Neymar.

Mbappe was another teen who had quite extraordinary decision making for his age, but nothing like this level of skill and craft, and that's not to slight Mbappe, rather, to state how much of a glitch this kid is.

I really don't agree with this, AT ALL, from the physical phenom/genius alike players, that have been prodigies since a very young age, I can't see with Kiki any extraordinary decision making, he is a player that even right now doesn't have that, nor will have when he is throw in the same bowl of Maradona, Pele and cia. Kiki being harsh, extremely unfair, it's dumb in that bowl.

 

[tenpoless]

I'd give it time. We don't know if he's going to be Messi, Jack Wilshere, Bojan Krkic, or Inigo Montoya

 

[criticalanalysis]

He is a teen and he is slim, but looks like a fella that can become bigger, this will affect his game, in some aspects for the good, in others his game might end affceted.
At first glance he doesn't look build stocky and strong like Pele, Diego, Messi...neither looks that he might become a Gullit, Kempes, R9 build alike, so if he stays slim, we'll see how this affect his game and if he becomes a lot more muscular, that also might affect for instance his great long stride.

Unless he has injuries, freakish testosterone or overdoes training, he'll be fine. Look at Sane, Coman, Robben etc for similar height, slim and gait. All carried their agility and dribbling into their 20's very easily.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

Yamal is entirely a La Masia product, Messi, even if young, was bought and Iniesta two, both weren't typical La Masia products AT ALL but of course after their success, La Masia will be more lean to produce/ and grab dribblers even if those aren't precisly big fellas, Lamine, Ansu are a consequence of what happen with Andres and Lio.



By the mere look of his progression and talent, he looks like to be at the very least a contender with this progression



He is a teen and he is slim, but looks like a fella that can become bigger, this will affect his game, in some aspects for the good, in others his game might end affceted.
At first glance he doesn't look build stocky and strong like Pele, Diego, Messi...neither looks that he might become a Gullit, Kempes, R9 build alike, so if he stays slim, we'll see how this affect his game and if he becomes a lot more muscular, that also might affect for instance his great long stride.




Let's not get so over the top, not regarding promising and the kid's real talent, but understanding the diff circumstances of many of the players mentioned. Stuff in life, NEVER is so black and white.

Pele and Maradona, were very young prodigies threw to field at a tender age due to not only heir talent, but because of the Clubs they were involved. Santos and Argentinos Jrs were small clubs in the context of their respective Leagues so when someone like them appears, coaches and the club itself will be more prone to use them, even more when in South America, specially in Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina, it's since the very early days of football a pretty common situation to make players debut in Pro Football being teenagers (even in more or less recent times, Aguero, Saviola, Aimar, Tevez...etc etc, everyone of them with diff enviroments (ages) and reasons started being teeangaers, not just because of their talent).

To make it more clear what I mean.
Di Stefano was always a prodigy, but you don't get a starting spot in that River, one of the most stacked teams ever, even being him.
Neither if you are Messi in one of Barca's most successfull periods with a star player above the other in multiple roles, that doesn't happenn for multiple reasons, not only a stack team, but even strategically (more in this current world full of fishermen).
Of course due to their personalities and talent they knock down the wall, more than knocking at the door first division, yet in a healthy of any huge club, youngsters, even Genius alike, will have to deal with other enviroment than current turmoil Barca is since time, being forced to give chances not always in the more proper way, yet sometimes you can get the jackpot with a Lamine and pray injuries doesn't turn everything to the worst.

Genius and phenoms like Pele, Messi, R9, or even Ney..."are all running, dribbling and bluster at these ages, full of energy and skill, but very much more drive towards a focal point and do something" BECAUSE THEY CAN, to not notice the CLEAR gap in power, pace, control and manage of space and time of such fellas, AT SUCH pace in comparison with Lamine, does not get what a Pele or any of these fellas were since a freaking boy.

It's so preposterous their level of talent in such regard, that it's logical that they will play like in their backgarden, in the park, dribbling everyone. There is a huge difference in atributes when you can watch any of those fellas as teens, no matter it's not first division in Barca.

Yamile doesn't have that, even if he is extremely gifted, he is extremely gifted in such regard like Iniesta, Figo, players alike, that even being extraordinary dribblers, they have to think more what to do, when to do it, how to do it. What is special from Lamine (yet I I have very few doubts that fellas like Laudrup, Iniesta, Figo would have been similar in their decision making if their circumstances would force them to play regularly at 17 under the biggest spotlight) it's that the kid does it with an aplomb, with a mange of resources on every aspect, even enrgy wise, extraordinary, very special player indeed. Yet it's a silly comparison when that comparison it with those fellas. Even with his idol Neymar.



I really don't agree with this, AT ALL, from the physical phenom/genius alike players, that have been prodigies since a very young age, I can't see with Kiki any extraordinary decision making, he is a player that even right now doesn't have that, nor will have when he is throw in the same bowl of Maradona, Pele and cia. Kiki being harsh, extremely unfair, it's dumb in that bowl.

Neymar needed a full season to adapt to Barcelona, and he moved clubs at 21. (In retrospect it might have had something to do with allegedly arriving underweight due to injury and/or illness. I'd be remiss not to note Yamal's also probably similarly some way off his ideal weight right now.) He was ultimately nearly a Messi-level dribbler, yet at the time people'd talk excitedly about how great he is in spurts when given space.

It's ridiculous to want to project young players' physical progress with any real confidence, and that obviously dictates so much about their playstyle (as you touch on), and ultimately "talent". I've never once compared Yamal's dribbling ability to Messi's (although he is exceptional - literally ranked 1st in Europe right now, despite his mostly very functional approach). I wouldn't necessarily expect him to even reach Vini or Mbappe's level (players whose sheer explosiveness is genuinely exceptional). But then, he isn't Maradona, or Ronaldo (who did bulk up significantly throughout this stage of his career), or Mbappe. It's fairly obvious he has a lot of room to grow in most physical areas. It's conversely very difficult to believe any young player will outright suffer due to physical development, short of injuries or gross mismanagement in training. (Certainly not impossible, but also genuinely remote.)

Messi could always make the ball do anything along the ground (he got much more consistent at it over time, of course), and his ability to link-up with other players while driving was immense (these are things he clearly had over Yamal, to be clear), but he was also very visibly raw at times his first year or two, clearly trying things he couldn't do, and learning the extent of his abilites. The idea he had, or could have had, a similar passing profile as a teenager is basically fiction, IMO. Yamal's timing, vision, and passing range right now are things Messi took more than a few years to acquire.

Yamile doesn't have that, even if he is extremely gifted, he is extremely gifted in such regard like Iniesta, Figo, players alike, that even being extraordinary dribblers, they have to think more what to do, when to do it, how to do it. What is special from Lamine (yet I I have very few doubts that fellas like Laudrup, Iniesta, Figo would have been similar in their decision making if their circumstances would force them to play regularly at 17 under the biggest spotlight) it's that the kid does it with an aplomb, with a mange of resources on every aspect, even enrgy wise, extraordinary, very special player indeed. Yet it's a silly comparison when that comparison it with those fellas. Even with his idol Neymar.

Most of these comparisons are ultimately quite spurious, sometimes almost to the point of farce. Laudrup was a Messi or Neymar-like talent, or something very close, a genuine teen prodigy, and a nearly unrivaled passer. (Hell, he was faster than at least the former, and Neymar's career and physicality around 17-19 can be scrutinized much more closely by anyone who has that appetite.) It's possible he'd have progressed faster had he picked a different club to Juventus (he says he was completely unaware they'd planned to loan him out to Lazio), but ultimately it's very, very clear his career at that level took a very different trajectory. (And their mentality is simply incomparable.)

We've seen how long it took Figo and Iniesta to pull their games together at the same exact environment. It required years of careful nurturing and experience (and in Iniesta's case, physical development) to make them world-class players.

You've picked three players who clearly and sincerely never could have matched Yamal's development for exceptionslly well-documented reasons, and you're specifically narrowing on their peak ball-carrying skills (Yamal already has better pure delivery than two of them, and plenty of imagination) to make it seem in any way an apt comparison, when of course their consistant improvement in that area over years exemplifies why that's such a fundamentally misguided concept, and how Lamine does stand-out from these type of prospects.

 

[Fobal]

Neymar needed a full season to adapt to Barcelona, and he moved clubs at 21. (In retrospect it might have had something to do with allegedly arriving underweight due to injury and/or illness. I'd be remiss not to note Yamal's also probably similarly some way off his ideal weight right now.) He was ultimately nearly a Messi-level dribbler, yet at the time people'd talk excitedly about how great he is in spurts when given space.

Ney's firts days in Barca it's an entirely diff enviroment and situation, from him being involved in a transfer, to a diff country, to a Barca in their prime and a large etc. And also that it's Barca, Ney already had at the same age another gear in comparison with Lamine. Yet Ney its closer to Yamile, or better said otherwise, than other geniuses mentioned in terms of his body type and some traits.

It's ridiculous to want to project young players' physical progress with any real confidence, and that obviously dictates so much about their playstyle (as you touch on), and ultimately "talent". I've never once compared Yamal's dribbling ability to Messi's (although he is exceptional - literally ranked 1st in Europe right now, despite his mostly very functional approach). I wouldn't necessarily expect him to even reach Vini or Mbappe's level (players whose sheer explosiveness is genuinely exceptional). But then, he isn't Maradona, or Ronaldo (who did bulk up significantly throughout this stage of his career), or Mbappe. It's fairly obvious he has a lot of room to grow in most physical areas. It's conversely very difficult to believe any young player will outright suffer due to physical development, short of injuries or gross mismanagement in training. (Certainly not impossible, but also genuinely remote.)

I'm actually not trying to do that, nor to predict the future, if I make some comparison, it's for the sake of the present and current style and characteristics of Lamine and the type of players right now I can associate with him. Things might change in his style/atributes or not in the future due to his growing, it's pure extra specualtion.
The main thing I'm stating it's that if someone sees in terms of style, physique and atributes a similar player to Pele, Maradona, Messi (or even a lesser atheltic version of them like Zico alike) player in Yamal, it's not actually watching what type of player Lamine is right now. What attributes he has, what main characteristics he possesses. Another subject is his personality, his virtues and the aura reminding those fellas or even "lesser" extraordinary footballers from the past he already shows.

Messi could always make the ball do anything along the ground (he got much more consistent at it over time, of course), and his ability to link-up with other players while driving was immense (these are things he clearly had over Yamal, to be clear), but he was also very visibly raw at times his first year or two, clearly trying things he couldn't do, and learning the extent of his abilites. The idea he had, or could have had, a similar passing profile as a teenager is basically fiction, IMO. Yamal's timing, vision, and passing range right now are things Messi took more than a few years to acquire.

I agree to a certain point, yet not entirely. Messi always had the same style (and attributes) since a kido, he always had a huge passing range, but when you have what instance Pele, Diego and Messi had since a boys, you'll tend to run over entire teams (even if between them, they had diff tendencies, Diego was always even in his more "sellfish" days, more team oriented, more of a midfielder, Pele and Messi were always more forward oriented players).

For lack of better word, I consider them "wild cards" in their approach since day one, you don't have to teach them nothing, yet like with any player guide them and surround them to get the best of them. They are a combination of very very rare pure fotballing ability and exceptional athletism that will impose in an almost very instict way for lack of better word, even if they still have the reading and understanding of the game since a baby. They will combine attempting sthg that it's not precisly the easiest path, like dribbling throught a wall, yet more often than not, they can end that same play with a great pass once they create that space. They'll fail sometimes, yet they can try and pull out such plays almost constantly. The stamina and electricity form those specimens when young is off the charts too. They were different animals and that has to be taken in consideration when analyzing these fellas appraach to the game while being teens.

As a side note, It's not fiction Messi's passing range since he first stepped into a pitch, any vid from Messi in La Masia or even in Newells, he is basicly the same player. Yet of course during his carreer he simply put more focus on some aspect given his age, team profile and needs (being more cerebral, more frantic, less frantic, etc etc).
Yet indeed because of Lamine's pretty clear understanding of what he has in his bag and not, his maturity is off the charts in such regard. And since what he has in his bag it's pretty obvious extraordinary, even if not having the traits of the recently three mentioned, he is a fecking fantastic talent that can even end having a better carreer and a similar praise or apreciation.

Most of these comparisons are ultimately quite spurious, sometimes almost to the point of farce. Laudrup was a Messi or Neymar-like talent, or something very close, a genuine teen prodigy, and a nearly unrivaled passer. (Hell, he was faster than at least the former, and Neymar's career and physicality around 17-19 can be scrutinized much more closely by anyone who has that appetite.) It's possible he'd have progressed faster had he picked a different club to Juventus (he says he was completely unaware they'd planned to loan him out to Lazio), but ultimately it's very, very clear his career at that level took a very different trajectory. (And their mentality is simply incomparable.)
We've seen how long it took Figo and Iniesta to pull their games together at the same exact environment. It required years of careful nurturing and experience (and in Iniesta's case, physical development) to make them world-class players.
You've picked three players who clearly and sincerely never could have matched Yamal's development for exceptionslly well-documented reasons, and you're specifically narrowing on their peak ball-carrying skills (Yamal already has better pure delivery than two of them, and plenty of imagination) to make it seem in any way an apt comparison, when of course their consistant improvement in that area over years exemplifies why that's such a fundamentally misguided concept, and how Lamine does stand-out from these type of prospects.

I've chose those players, not because I think Lamine is a copycat of them, nor their carrers, etc...but because they share sthg with Lamine: Great intelligence to understand what they have as atributes and exploit them in the best possible way, resume in some great maturity in his decision making. While at the same time being extraordinary in his talent and skills (not BTW a Muller, Batistuta type of player that also were bright to exploit their best atributes, yet not in such realm of talent). Also because these players I've mentioned I feel closer to Lamine's atributes, he can be extremely proud if he ends playing regularly through his carreer like them given he is more comparable in terms of atributes with those than with a Pele.

PD1: Laudrup for me, one of my favorite players ever, it's clearly not a Diego, Edson, Lio type, at all.
PD2: Ney as extraordinary as he was and since day one for me a "better" dribbler than Lamine, neither is for me in such realm. Better I mean in terms of having more suitable atributes, not that Lamine with what he already has cannot be in ocasions more productive.

All in all what I find incorrect it's to throw associations with new players in terms of atributes and style that I do not find suitable, nor really similar. Mostly because we have stuff that connects them (same club, age group, etc etc). It's like when people said Jude the new Di Stefano, yes he can end producing even better numbers, he plays all over the place, yet Alfredo was quite a differente player than Jude and had quite a different progression in terms of roles, with different atributes.

 

[Querulous Megapode]

I was probably a bit too snappy earlier when on the surface I agree with most of what you say. It was late, and some of it looked so familiar it felt a lot like apologetics. Apologies if I came off as overly agressive.

As a side note, It's not fiction Messi's passing range since he first stepped into a pitch, any vid from Messi in La Masia or even in Newells, he is basicly the same player. Yet of course during his carreer he simply put more focus on some aspect given his age, team profile and needs (being more cerebral, more frantic, less frantic, etc etc).

Messi spent years mastering those lobbed balls over the top that come so naturally to Yamal. Not just in terms of timing and awareness but also, very visibly, technique. (People here would laugh at him spamming them sometimes, even by around 2011 or later. And while he could always pass or shoot, earlier in his career it felt mostly very obvious which option he was going for at any given time.) He's never had Yamal's trivela (and other, less often used techniques, like those inverted crosses from the Euros), which adds a whole new range of angles to his options in their favorite positions. Saying he had those elements already is not something I can agree with at all.

(Conversly, I struggle to believe through balls are an actual weakness of Lamine's game right now, or something he'd have any trouble adding if it is, given any application. His sheer touch is insane.)

I've chose those players, not because I think Lamine is a copycat of them, nor their carrers, etc...but because they share sthg with Lamine: Great intelligence to understand what they have as atributes and exploit them in the best possible way, resume in some great maturity in his decision making. While at the same time being extraordinary in his talent and skills

But even paring this all down to the narrowest, most generous interpretation of what you've previously said, this idea that they'd have arrived at that maturity as early as Yamal under similar circumstances (or hell, given Lamine's actual body and their brains) is simply demonstrably false. It says as much about the precociousness of his decision making as it does about the skillset underpinning it.

 

[Wand of a right foot]

I was probably a bit too snappy earlie the surface I agree with most of what you say. It was late, and some of it looked so familiar it felt a lot like apologetics. Apologies if I came off as overly agressive.



Messi spent years mastering those lobbed balls over the top that come so naturally to Yamal. Not just in terms of timing and awareness but also, very visibly, technique. (People here would laugh at him spamming them sometimes, even by around 2011 or later. And while he could always pass or shoot, earlier in his career it felt mostly very obvious which option he was going for at any given time.) He's never had Yamal's trivela (and other, less often used techniques, like those inverted crosses from the Euros), which adds a whole new range of angles to his options in their favorite positions. Saying he had those elements already is not something I can agree with at all.

(Conversly, I struggle to believe through balls are an actual weakness of Lamine's game right now, or something he'd have any trouble adding if it is, given any application. His sheer touch is insane.)



But even paring this all down to the narrowest, most generous interpretation of what you've previously said, this idea that they'd have arrived at that maturity as early as Yamal under similar circumstances (or hell, given Lamine's actual body and their brains) is simply demonstrably false. It says as much about the precociousness of his decision making as it does about the skillset underpinning it.

If you want to compare Messi and Yamal in terms of basic attributes in theirs teens:

1. Dribbling: Messi was better and more efficient . Yamal is a very good dribbler but Messi was on another level.

2. Final pass: Yamal is better in crossing, definitely. Messi was better at through passes.

3. Decision making: Yamal wins this one definitely. Messi wasn't brainless but because he was so good at dribbling, he'd ignore better options sometimes and just drivble past every one. Many times it'd still pay off only because he was extraterrestrial at it. Messi eventually mastered this aspect better than anyone.

4. Goalscoring: Whenever fully fit, Messi was better at it. But he played much less than Yamal because he was eased into the team and had injuries that kept him out for long periods of time while Yamal has being thrown into it and hasnt had succeed injuries so the stats may not suggest it.
For instance, Messi only became fairly regular at 18 years in 2005/6 and even than had to share the position with Giuly. Messi missed 3 months of their season in 2005/6 and 3 months in 2006/7 both teenage years. Count in the recovery period and it is easy to see how the injuries held him back. Yamal on the otherhand has no competitors in his position and has had comparitively injury free time thus far.

All in all, Yamal is 100% going to be the best of his generation unless a talent like Messi comes along which happens every 30 years. Interms of greatness, Yamal has more opportunity with Spain than Messi had with Argentina in the sense that Spain's NT has a footballing identity very similar to Barcelona and is currently the best NT around which wasn't true of a relatively shambolic Argentina team when Messi was 18.

 

[Fobal]

I was probably a bit too snappy earlier when on the surface I agree with most of what you say. It was late, and some of it looked so familiar it felt a lot like apologetics. Apologies if I came off as overly agressive.

Yeah it looked a bit that way, I have a tendency of not get dragg in those even if they are intentional, so no problem man, at all. I just like to talk about football, agreeing or not and I agree on many of the stuff you've said.

Messi spent years mastering those lobbed balls over the top that come so naturally to Yamal. Not just in terms of timing and awareness but also, very visibly, technique. (People here would laugh at him spamming them sometimes, even by around 2011 or later. And while he could always pass or shoot, earlier in his career it felt mostly very obvious which option he was going for at any given time.) He's never had Yamal's trivela (and other, less often used techniques, like those inverted crosses from the Euros), which adds a whole new range of angles to his options in their favorite positions. Saying he had those elements already is not something I can agree with at all.

(Conversly, I struggle to believe through balls are an actual weakness of Lamine's game right now, or something he'd have any trouble adding if it is, given any application. His sheer touch is insane.)

The thing it's what I've said before, there are very very few players with the traits of Messi, Diego, Pele that can take entire teams time and again within the same match, so naturally they will go for it time and again...they just can since the first day someone put a ball in their feet.
In fact the treatment against them since very very young was always ruthless because even rivals detect the instant danger of their traits.
There are vids of Messi at 16 being massacred due to his will to go time after time facing everyone.
As a side note, injuries, not just gowing up, changed games/style/approach too. Diego from Argentinos Jrs (specially) and Pre Injury Barca, it's not the same player at all from his Napoli days, sthg that rarely it's spoken. He became a way less of free soul and became more pragmatic and developed himself in almost a pure midfielder instead of his pure forward days with midfeilder passing traits of his teen days.

I get what you say about Messi actually not playing more regularly as a passer, but just watch also vids of Messi at 16 and the passing range it's already there (even younger). He would be Messi and indeed a lot Messier, because sometimes he never dosified himself, was extremely sellfish in ocassions too. In many ways Barca oblied him to dosify himself, if he wanted to keep himself healthy and not broken in two.
At the same time the capability to decide and actually pull out a weighted pass with effect after leaving three players in the dust CONSTANTLY, it's just extremely special. That combination of stamina, balance, skills and even dare it's extremely rare, it's not Lamine at all.
You have to have the sort of package those fellas were born with.They will play more calm, more midfield oriented roles, more playmaker alike, more "mature" in some way, mostly when getting older, it's natural too, but those traits are always there since day one.

PD: A trivela it's just a way of striking the ball, nothing to make such a fuss, for me.
PD2: never said Lamine struggles with throught balls at all, dunno why you've got such impression. He has a great weighted pass.

But even paring this all down to the narrowest, most generous interpretation of what you've previously said, this idea that they'd have arrived at that maturity as early as Yamal under similar circumstances (or hell, given Lamine's actual body and their brains) is simply demonstrably false. It says as much about the precociousness of his decision making as it does about the skillset underpinning it.

Like Ive said before, the traits, style, physical atributes, way of playing it's what made me throw the names I've mentioned to the mix, that I find more suitable, closer to Yamile, even if those names aren't copycats at all.
In fact in the same "game" Messi was always more Zico alike than Diego alike.

Now talking about your point here, the reality it's that we'll never know, because they didn't had the exposure of Lamine given how Barca had to throw him so young to the Lions and while also is a testament of the kid talent (and head) with Barca being so dependant in their kids in recent times (not just him).
Fellas like Laudrup, Figo, Iniesta always looked to me like the sort of extremely bright players in terms of using their best tools to maximize their impact and to not exposure themselves in unncessary attemps since day one. Playing the silly game of if my grandpa had wheels he would be a bycicle, I could bet that most if not all of them would have look great in Yamal's shoes, yet we certainly do not know and Yamal it's actually doing it. At the same time, I do not give that much of importance to ages, I like to dig more into styles, atributes, physique, etc to draw paralelisms.

Putting too much focus on age for me it's a mistake, more when someone tries to find similarities, style, etc.. That aspect of age can get fascinating, it's remarkable, but would not exactly speak of the abilities, traits, style of the player in question.
The debut or consolidation of players earlier or later, had so many other aspects outside the player itself involved, that do not matter as much as it might seem. Of course I get that creates a huge aura and fascinates, people from other teams were going to Argentinos Jrs matches to watch that little kid doing his stuff, yet Diego would have been Diego if he had like Alfredo in the 40's in River to wait for his chance more than his talent deserved.