La Liga 2018/19

Cloud7 said:
Defense is probably the part of the team most dependent on tactics rather than individual quality. Doesn’t matter how good your defenders are if you don’t set the team up properly.
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True but they also seem to commit a crazy amount of individual mistakes this season but yeah Madrid is having severe tactical problems, the gaps between the different parts of the team are insane, players don't cover space very well for their teammates either.
I also feel this team simply looks like it lost its drive to win games, which isn't too surprising after the last three season though.
 
minoo-utd said:
What a game of football by Eibar here. Press high and they are every where. So brave and so dominating, it shows you that you don't always need big names to produce attacking football. Amazing display.
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Eibar played great. Forced Madrid into just sloppy, bad football.
 
Peyroteo said:
If Barcelona, Atleti, Sevilla and Valencia were at their usual level Madrid wouldn’t finish in the top 4 this season.

They got lucky that as they turned to complete shit, so did the others.
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It's way too early to conclude that with any certainty.

Sevilla have around the same points total (23pts) after 12 jornadas as in the past two seasons (24 in 16/17, 22 in 17/18).

For the Madrid teams the signs were there already last season.
- RM's first half of La Liga and eventual finish with the lowest pts total since 2006/07
- Atléti not qualifying from the CL group stage + they had around the same pts in the previous 2 seasons as well (23 after 12 matchdays currently; 21 in 16/17, 24 in 17/18)

Atléti would be expected to fill the gap and on that front they've failed, maybe, but it's not yet looking different from the trend of the past few seasons.

Valencia admittedly did look on the rise, but then again they've lacked any sort of season-to-season consistency since the days of Emery (finishing 5th, 8th, 4th, 12th, 12th, 4th) so it's hard to know what their "usual level" really is.

The only one of RM's opponents that you could justifiably say are way below their actual level are Barça. They overachieved last season in the league and now they're underperforming (maybe with a greater focus on UCL).
 
Cloud7 said:
Defense is probably the part of the team most dependent on tactics rather than individual quality. Doesn’t matter how good your defenders are if you don’t set the team up properly.
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What are Madrid doing so differently this season with their tactics? In midfield and defense its mostly the same players, with a new keeper bedding in but he hasnt been that bad.

For me its desire/hard work. Ramos and Varane don't look bothered. Probably believing the hype about themsleves.

None of their opponents believe it and so they are reaping the rewards
 
Eibar have been really good and played nice football. Real Madrid have been dreadful as a team though, no bite in that midfield, so may off sides from Benzema, so many poor balls, Courtois has made a couple of saves, not great on first goals though and distribution has been poor. After 3 0 most of the team seem to have given up. The back 4 haven't actually been that bad, just continually exposed.

Can see Madrid dropping a lot of there big players after this, Bale, Modric, Kroos at least definitely shouldn't be playing the next match, awful. They need Casemiro back and in form too, don't think they can play 4 3 3 without him.
 
AshRK said:
This. A team with Ronaldo or messi automatically starts with an advantage. Barca are truly lucky that messi didn't throw a Ronaldo on them. Had Ronaldo never had his farce dream of Madrid and never left us we would have won atleast one more CL and would never have become mediocre.
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Exactly!

People easily forget the psychological aspect of the game. Imagine the impact of a Ronaldo presence in the dressing room! This guy is your joker, your X-Factor, your leader. The guy who guarantees you loads of goals every season from penalties, free kicks, tap ins, long range shots and solo runs. He's the biggest brand in the squad, the guy who just inspired the club to three champions league titles, your club's answer to Lionel Messi. How can he suddenly leave and and anyone expects Madrid not to suffer a dip for a while?
 
I've said this before, but I'll say it again.

Real weren't a good team last season. Not by their standards. That's why their domestic season was over by Christmas. They won the CL due to a combination of being able to concentrate all of their energy on it, experience, and sheer luck. They were phenomenally lucky to win the CL. That perhaps sounded like sour grapes, but it wasn't, it just an accurate assessment of what happened on the pitch.

I don't know why they're not a good team, as they have good players, but they haven't played well on a consistent basis for the best part of two years. Nothing that has happened to them this season is surprising to me, particularly as they've weakened their side in the summer.
 
wub1234 said:
I've said this before, but I'll say it again.

Real weren't a good team last season. Not by their standards. That's why their domestic season was over by Christmas. They won the CL due to a combination of being able to concentrate all of their energy on it, experience, and sheer luck. They were phenomenally lucky to win the CL. That perhaps sounded like sour grapes, but it wasn't, it just an accurate assessment of what happened on the pitch.

I don't know why they're not a good team, as they have good players, but they haven't played well on a consistent basis for the best part of two years. Nothing that has happened to them this season is surprising to me, particularly as they've weakened their side in the summer.
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:lol::lol::lol:

A few months ago....

wub1234 said:
I'll accept apologies from anyone who said I was an idiot for writing that Ronaldo was past his best and Real Madrid would be well advised to let him go.
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wub1234 said:
Ronaldo has been a better player than Bale, but Bale is at the same level as him now, is the better long-term prospect, and would do as well as Ronaldo is he was indulged to the same degree by Real Madrid. I stand by this opinion.
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wub1234 said:
I've said this numerous times on another thread, but...Ronaldo is a great forward, this cannot be taken away from him. One of the best ever, undoubtedly. But he played for a very strong Real Madrid team, who absolutely played to his strengths at all times, and indulged him to a great extent. Most of the goals he scored over the last few years were close range efforts or tap-ins, while virtually all set-pieces were aimed at him, if he himself wasn't taking it in order to shoot at goal. And when he doesn't score, he does nothing.

That's why Real have been willing to take £90 million for him, which is a ridiculous fee at his age, regardless of the commercial implications of the deal. I actually predicted that Real Madrid would sell him before it happened, because (a) they need to regenerate their team, (b) Ronaldo is more replaceable than many observers realise, and (c) once your head is bigger than the entrance to the Bernabeu then there is only ever going to be one winner. It was classless to say what he did shortly after winning the CL, and it was only ever going to result in him leaving.

How Real Madrid's season will go remains to be seen, but as of yet they haven't missed him in the slightest. Don't assume that it will be a picnic for him to score prolifically, because I can assure you of one thing. It is all downhill for him physically from hereon in.
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wub1234 said:
If Real have any sense they will get rid of Ronaldo, not allow him to sign some ridiculous contract that completely overvalues him, and move heaven and earth to get Neymar. Then they would have the second best player in the world, behind Messi obviously.

Bale would produce as good, or possibly better, performances and results than Ronaldo if he was selected regularly, as he has done so when Ronaldo was rested. 21 goals in 39 appearances from the bench. If Bale was indulged to the degree that Ronaldo is, played every game, was allowed to take every free-kick, virtually every set-piece was aimed at him, he sulked every time someone else scored a goal or shot instead of passing to him, then I'm confident Bale would score as many as Ronaldo.

Except that Bale wouldn't do some of those things because he's a more mature human being.
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Madrid didn't play good football last year, so this season comes as no surprise. It is laughable that so many people proclaimed them the best team in Europe because they won a cup competition.

I think they didn't actually play great football from an organizational point of view even before last season. Zidane was obviously a great presence and very good at man management, but they were always conceding lots of chances throughout his reign.

They won in Europe through combination of motivation, individual quality and lots of luck. In the league it was enough for one title (with many last minute winners), but once motivation dried, the flaws started to become evident.

It wouldn't be that much different if Ronaldo stayed, they play the same as they did last season. And regarding comparisons, ask yourselves could team with Messi ever have that kind of poor league campaign?
 
Stocar said:
It wouldn't be that much different if Ronaldo stayed, they play the same as they did last season. And regarding comparisons, ask yourselves could team with Messi ever have that kind of poor league campaign?
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It already happened... 2007/08? It wouldn't happen again because he'd never play with such a bad performing group of players again.

Of course it would be different if Ronaldo stayed, everyone would have them as CL favourites, he'd have probably won them a few extra points and they'd probably be top of the league with Barcelona being as bad as they've been... if Atletico win today, Madrid will still be just 4 points behind Barcelona.
 
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Peyroteo said:
Of course it would be different if Ronaldo stayed, everyone would have them as CL favourites, he'd have probably won them a few extra points and they'd probably be top of the league with Barcelona being as bad as they've been... if Atletico win today, Madrid will still be just 4 points behind Barcelona.
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I think they would certainly be better, but not by much. As evidenced by last season.
 
Stocar said:
I suppose you mean prior to 2008/09? He was not yet formed as a player, and constantly injured as far as I remember.
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He was third in the Ballon D'Or in 2007 and second in 2008, played 28 league games in 2007/08... Barcelona finished on 67 points. Ronaldo played 27 league games last year as a comparison.

So yes, it can happen. It's impossible for one player alone to have that kind of impact, if the team is playing like shit even Messi wouldn't alone carry them to 90+ points.
 
Stocar said:
I think they would certainly be better, but not by much. As evidenced by last season.
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Last year they had 27 points at this stage, they'd be leading the league by 3 points.

They lost a bunch of points in the league last year due to focusing on the Champions League. 76 points wasn't really an outcome that showed their quality.
 
Peyroteo said:
:lol::lol::lol:

A few months ago....
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Everything I said in those posts is correct.

Ronaldo has been bang average this season, and would have been worse if he wasn't playing in a one-team league, which Juventus will win without even trying. That's why he moved there. That's why he didn't move to Man United, despite professing numerous times that he loves them. Because that would have been a genuine challenge.

When Juventus inevitably win Serie A for the 8th season in a row, you will say that winning Serie A is a massive achievement. Whereas when Real don't win the league, and Barcelona and Messi do win the league, you pretend that domestic football doesn't matter, and the only thing that matters is the Champions League.

If Juventus had never signed Ronaldo and kept Higuain, they would be performing exactly the same as they are now. The reason Real are struggling is not because they've lost Ronaldo, it's because their team is over-the-hill and unmotivated, they haven't refreshed the squad, and they've got a crap defence.

However, they weren't a great team last season with Ronaldo, quite obviously, as they completely failed in domestic football.

If it makes you happy to believe otherwise, and believe that Juventus are a good team because of Ronaldo, and Real were a great team last season, then be my guest.
 
Peyroteo said:
He was third in the Ballon D'Or in 2007 and second in 2008, played 28 league games in 2007/08... Barcelona finished on 67 points. Ronaldo played 27 league games last year as a comparison.

So yes, it can happen. It's impossible for one player alone to have that kind of impact, if the team is playing like shit even Messi wouldn't alone carry them to 90+ points.
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Like I said, he was not yet formed as a player at that time. The football that he played that season when he was third wasn't nearly as complete or influential as the one he played in the years after, including last season. But you know the story with these rewards.
 
wub1234 said:
Everything I said in those posts is correct.

Ronaldo has been bang average this season, and would have been worse if he wasn't playing in a one-team league, which Juventus will win without even trying. That's why he moved there. That's why he didn't move to Man United, despite professing numerous times that he loves them. Because that would have been a genuine challenge.

When Juventus inevitably win Serie A for the 8th season in a row, you will say that winning Serie A is a massive achievement. Whereas when Real don't win the league, and Barcelona and Messi do win the league, you pretend that domestic football doesn't matter, and the only thing that matters is the Champions League.

If Juventus had never signed Ronaldo and kept Higuain, they would be performing exactly the same as they are now. The reason Real are struggling is not because they've lost Ronaldo, it's because their team is over-the-hill and unmotivated, they haven't refreshed the squad, and they've got a crap defence.

However, they weren't a great team last season with Ronaldo, quite obviously, as they completely failed in domestic football.

If it makes you happy to believe otherwise, and believe that Juventus are a good team because of Ronaldo, and Real were a great team last season, then be my guest.
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:lol::lol::lol:

I thought you'd at least have a bit of shame instead of coming out with more proof of being the most clueless football fan in the world. Average ffs :lol:
I should have guessed it though since even after a season which has completely shat on everything you have ever argued in this place and you still can get to a state of mind where it's alright to come here and say 'nothing that has happened has surprised me' :wenger:

I find it funny you even have an opinion on how Ronaldo has played at all since you obviously have no interest in Serie A in the slightest and haven't watched the games... as you yourself said a few months ago. Do you want me to quote that one too?

You can keep feeling so angry about how wrong you are that you start arguing against shit I never said, that's fine. But I can quote your terrible posts and poke fun at them too. Either that or you'll laugh at me at the end of the season when Bale scores 50 goals, Real Madrid win the Champions League and you're proved right at how much of a brilliant idea selling Ronaldo was :lol:

By the way, just to clear up all the things you pretended I said in that post which I have never said or agree with. I never said it would be a great achievement for Juventus to win the league this season, I never said Juventus are a great team because of Ronaldo, I never said Real Madrid were a great team last season, I never said domestic football didn't matter or anything relatively close to it... think that0s about it.

Now here's the things you actually said:
Ronaldo has been average this season.
Serie A is a one team league.
Ronaldo didn't move to United because it would be tough to win the league, rather than no offer being made in the first place.
Juventus would be performing exactly the way with Higuain instead of Ronaldo, despite literally not doing so.

Don't think there's any need to elaborate further. I'll leave it at that.
 
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Peyroteo said:
:lol::lol::lol:I thought you'd at least have a bit of shame instead of coming out with more proof of being the most clueless football fan in the world. Average ffs :lol:
I should have guessed it though since even after a season which has completely shat on everything you have ever argued in this place and you still have the balls to come here and say 'nothing that has happened has surprised me' :wenger:

I find it funny you even have an opinion on how he's played at all since you obviously have no interest in Serie A in the slightest... as you yourself said a few months ago. Do you want me to quote that one too? I'll make sure to keep quoting your beyond stupid predictions every time you're hilariously proved wrong then so you can get so worked up about it you make up things I never said and start arguing about it.

Either that or you'll laugh at me at the end of the season when Bale scores 50 goals, Real Madrid win the Champions League and you're proved right at how much of a brilliant idea selling Ronaldo was :lol:
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Nothing that has happened has surprised me.

Real failed in domestic football last season with Ronaldo. They are failing this season without Ronaldo. They will be forced to concentrate on the CL again. They probably will do quite well. They are unlikely to get as lucky as they did last season.

It doesn't surprise me that Juventus are top of the league. They were top of the league the last 7 seasons.

It doesn't surprise me that Ronaldo has scored goals because anyone playing CF in that team would score goals. Higuain scored 24 league goals in a season, currently Ronaldo is on course to score roughly that many, although his performances in Europe have been worse than Higuain.

It doesn't surprise me that Ronaldo has been bang average because he is reliant on other players setting him up for sitters. If they don't do that then he will very rarely do anything. No disgrace in that, the same could be said of Lewandowski, for example.

I would say Ronaldo has been bang average because currently the following players have scored more goals than him:

Lionel Messi
Luis Suarez
Krzysztof Piatek
Luka Jovic
Marco Reus
Alassane Pléa
Robert Lewandowski
Thorgan Hazard
Sergio Agüero
Harry Kane
Kylian Mbappé
Emiliano Sala
Neymar

And the following players have scored as many (usually with a better goals-per-game ratio):

Ciro Immobile
Paco Alcácer
Sébastien Haller
Mohammed Salah
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Edinson Cavani

Out of those players, only those playing for PSG are in a weaker league, with a bigger gulf between their team and the opposition. That's why I would say Ronaldo has been bang average. And several of those players could walk into Juventus tomorrow, Ronaldo could leave, and they wouldn't miss him in the slightest.

However, this is completely off-topic. I was just pointing out that Real were crap in the league last season, which they were.
 
wub1234 said:
Nothing that has happened has surprised me.

Real failed in domestic football last season with Ronaldo. They are failing this season without Ronaldo. They will be forced to concentrate on the CL again. They probably will do quite well. They are unlikely to get as lucky as they did last season.

It doesn't surprise me that Juventus are top of the league. They were top of the league the last 7 seasons.

It doesn't surprise me that Ronaldo has scored goals because anyone playing CF in that team would score goals. Higuain scored 24 league goals in a season, currently Ronaldo is on course to score roughly that many, although his performances in Europe have been worse than Higuain.

It doesn't surprise me that Ronaldo has been bang average because he is reliant on other players setting him up for sitters. If they don't do that then he will very rarely do anything. No disgrace in that, the same could be said of Lewandowski, for example.

I would say Ronaldo has been bang average because currently the following players have scored more goals than him:

Lionel Messi
Luis Suarez
Krzysztof Piatek
Luka Jovic
Marco Reus
Alassane Pléa
Robert Lewandowski
Thorgan Hazard
Sergio Agüero
Harry Kane
Kylian Mbappé
Emiliano Sala
Neymar

And the following players have scored as many (usually with a better goals-per-game ratio):

Ciro Immobile
Paco Alcácer
Sébastien Haller
Mohammed Salah
Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang
Edinson Cavani

Out of those players, only those playing for PSG are in a weaker league, with a bigger gulf between their team and the opposition. That's why I would say Ronaldo has been bang average. And several of those players could walk into Juventus tomorrow, Ronaldo could leave, and they wouldn't miss him in the slightest.

However, this is completely off-topic. I was just pointing out that Real were crap in the league last season, which they were.
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Ah so he's been bang average despite you not even actually watching the games! Brilliant analysis right here. He's been fantastic even if he hadn't scored once. Juventus are a defensive team, Ronaldo would score more for Dortmund than he does for Juventus and Reus would score less for Juventus than he does in Dortmund. All of the goals he's scored actually mattered too, he's not scoring the 6-0 against Frosinone at home like other players. Maybe, just maybe, football doesn't work in a way of 'player A plays for a stronger team, so he has to score more goals than player B otherwise he's worse'. Griezmann scores less than Suarez, play Griezmann in Barcelona and Suarez in this Atletico team and it's obvious who would score more too. It's incredible how little of football someone has to know to make the point you've just tried to make.

Also, Madrid being crap in the league last season and Madrid being crap in the league this season does not actually mean they stayed the same despite you're brilliant thinking that it does. You believe they'll be great in the CL once again, I believe they'll be eliminated by the first great team they play and won't make it to the semis despite getting there for 8 years in a row.
 
Interesting Barca selection. Valverde looks like he's countered AM by going for a very narrow central midfield, Busquets, Sergi Roberto, Arthur and Vidal all starting so not much width there at all. Does give Messi a very free role to do his stuff off Suarez.

Wouldn't shock me if Atletico pinch this one by inevitably the odd goal.
 
Diego Simeone's Atletico Madrid has never beaten Barcelona. Last time Atletico Madrid beat Barcelona, it was in 2010. Barca is not going to lose twice in a row. I expect them to beat Atletico Madrid again. Atletico Madrid is basically Barcelona's bitch.
 
Foxtrot said:
Diego Simeone's Atletico Madrid has never beaten Barcelona. Last time Atletico Madrid beat Barcelona, it was in 2010. Barca is not going to lose twice in a row. I expect them to beat Atletico Madrid again. Atletico Madrid is basically Barcelona's bitch.
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They knocked them out of CL a few years ago. Also won a title at Camp Nou.
 
FootballHQ said:
They knocked them out of CL a few years ago. Also won a title at Camp Nou.
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I mean they have never beaten them in the league. But yes I forgot they knocked them out of the Champions League.
 
It's a torture watching this game. I feel for the fans of teams that play this kind of shite football on a weekly basis.
 
And Atleti score from a corner. Costa with his first goal in a while.

This has been a textbook Atletico Madrid 1-0 performance. Shut down opposition threat and pinch the game from a set piece.
 
Horrible marking by Rafinha for the goal.

Barcelona had a bunch of corners and didn't create anything, Atleti have 1 corner and it's enough
 
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