La Liga - 2014/15

Vato said:
How the hell do our players average a 6.09 rating?!
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The problem with giving average ratings based on stats. The overall passing and possession wasn't made. Not many clinical mistakes from the team. End result is about the same rating as they started (I imagine that 6.0 is the base score like in Football Manager). Succeeding something (tackles, dribbles etc) gives you a bump in rating. Assists and goals massively bump you. Not making mistakes on paper doesn't put you down.
 
Cait Sith said:
My word, Simeone is dominating Real more than Pep did with Barca. 6 games, 4 wins, 2 draws, 0 losses. 12-4 goal difference. 3 clean sheets in 3 home games. This is a club that couldn't buy a single victory against Real in over 10 years before he took over. Unbelieveable stuff.
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I don't think so, at least not yet. Guardiola's record as Barcelona manager against Madrid in 15 games was 9 wins, 4 draws, 2 defeats. I don't know the total numbers for Simeone but just counting last season he already had 3 defeats (2 in cup, 1 cl).
 
Raul Madrid said:
I'm not claiming Madrid are up there with those teams so I have no real problems with your conclusion, but rather with how you reached it. You havent really taken into account the competition and strength of the leagues that those sides faced. Bayern in 12/13 won their league by 25 points (that is not exactly being pushed to the limit like Madrid are being now) and drew both games with Dortmund 1-1 (so that goes against what you said about them doing consistently well against the top sides, in the league at least which is what I assume you are referring to as I am sure your post is a response to yesterdays result). Dortmund were obviously strong as evidenced by them reaching the final but they were not equipped to put in a strong challenge for the league as well as in Europe.

As for Barcelona under Pep. What top sides did they have to overcome domestically? I will give you Madrid under Mourinho but that was by 10/11. Madrid in 08/09 were not exactly anything special. Going out in the Copa in the 4th round to a third division side, finishing 2nd in the group to an average Juventus and losing both home and away to them. Getting smashed 5-0 on aggregate by Liverpool and losing both home and away to them. Getting annihilated 6-2 at home to Barcelona as well as having lost to them at the Nou camp as well. They also lost 3-0 vs Valencia away as well. And Madrid were the only other team in the league at the time who were seen as strong other than Barcelona. Not exactly what I would call tough competition.

The following season Madrid improved but not really by much (nowhere near as much as they should have after the money they spent). Once again they went out in the 4th round of the cup losing 4-0 (4-1 on aggregate) to Alcorcon (a Segunda Division B team), they actually managed to finish top of their group in the CL this time albeit were still unable to beat a poor Milan side and even lost to them at home in one of the games (and this really was a poor Milan side, which lost 7-2 on aggregate to United in the last 16 and finished third in Seria A). Madrid then went out in the last 16 once again, being unable to beat Lyon once over two legs (tbf this Lyon team was good, but not great. They lost 4-0 on aggregate to Bayern when they met. A top team should not have lost to Lyon). In the league once again they were unable to beat Barca or even score against them.

Quite simply they were not one of the top sides in 09/10 despite the money spent. Barca, Milan, Roma, Inter, Bayern, United, Chelsea, Arsenal and Lyon were all better than them that year (maybe even some others). And just like the previous season they were the only other side in Spain that were considered strong. Tbf they did push Barcelona in the league, but going by the results that I posted in earlier in this post, I think that just reflects badly on La Liga back then rather than the strength of Madrid or at best shows that they had the potential to be a top team, but were not one yet. And even if you think Madrid were a good side that season, they were not as strong as Atletico are this season or last season, or as strong as Barcelona are this season or last season. And despite the ease at which Barcelona won games in the league during those years in addition to the ease in which they beat Madrid, their away record in the CL was not the greatest, especially in the knockouts (which doesn't reflect well on the rest of La Liga).

Like I said, 10/11 is fair enough as Mourinho made Madrid into a top team and one of the very best again. But simply using results against the other top teams like you were is very faulty and lacks context. It does not take into account the quality and competitiveness of the leagues these respective sides were in. La Liga this season and last year is stronger than it was back when Barcelona were dominating. I think it would be fair to say that Peps Barcelona would not have always gotten favourable results against this Atletico side either (we all saw what happened when his side faced Inter and also when they faced Chelsea in 08/09 and their less than stellar midfield in 11/12. Heck even Atletico back then were good for a result against them despite not being as good as they are now). United from 06 to 09 did not always get good results in the big games in the league (the only big game they won in 08/09 was vs Chelsea at home) and that was not because they were not a good side. They were a very good side and a very dominant one I might add too despite these results which goes against your logic. Its just that they were playing in a very competitive league which was very strong at the top. Which is what La Liga is now.
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I can't argue with anything you are saying as you are making some good arguments. I think I was responding to the general consensus that Real belong to the category of Bayern and Barcelona rather than the topic on hand which is my bad. You agree with my conclusion which I think is the main point I was trying to put forward as I never understood why people mention Real in the same breath as those two who I consider to be the elite of European football over the past 6 or 7 years and I used yesterday's result to illustrate my argument. Overall I think Bayern and Barcelona are the best sides in Europe over the past few years followed by a United, Real and maybe Chelsea which I assume is something you would concur.
 
Saul, Griezmann, Siquiera and Mandzukic and Miranda were all very good but I think I'd go Tiago for MOTM. Fantastic performance.

Real were poor, obviously. James is a big loss for them and a massive one while Modric is out. Ramos was a big loss, too. Whenever Griezmann and Mandzukic pressed, Nacho looked shaky on the ball and Khedira + Bale are just not as good getting open off the ball and coming to receive it as Modric and James are.

My 14-1 bet for an Atletico repeat La Liga win still looks quite unlikely, but it's not inconceivable.
 
Re: The Best Teams in Europe discussion, I think there is a clear top 5 in some order: Bayern, Barcelona, both Madrid sides and Chelsea. Then it's a clusterfeck.
 
CLARiiON said:
Much more likely than City winning the EPL.
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I think the rambunctious and spirited, if not particularly tactically sound, style of the Prem's bottom half makes Chelsea dropping a bunch of points more likely than both Real and Barca doing it.

That said, I'd jump on Atletico to beat Citeh by multiple goals over 2 legs. I can already see Nasri on the ground as Atletico burst forward on the counter.
 
Revan said:
Agree. The closest I can think of is Mourinho winning UCL (in fact the entire treble) with Porto.
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Not a treble, we missed the Portuguese Cup. On the previous season he won UEFA Cup, League and Cup.
 
Gayá with the most outrageous goal line clearance to prevent a tap-in from Stuani! Great move by Espanyol, but what a block that was. He's easily been one of the best defenders in La Liga this season, also done very well offensively as once again evidenced by his excellent action and cross to assist Piatti's goal in this game.
 
Dani Parejo makes it 2-0 with an exquisite free-kick five minutes from time...

edit: oh, it's an own-goal, Parejo's shot hit the post and rebounded in off the GK's back, very unlucky, but that was so well hit it deserved to go in.
 
Great ending to the game, mistake by Parejo and Mustafi stuffs the clearance leaving the in-form Sergio García through on goal 1v1... emphatic finish to make it a tense final couple of minutes! 1-2

4 minutes of stoppage time added
 
Skorenzy said:
Dani Parejo makes it 2-0 with an exquisite free-kick five minutes from time...
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Looks like he won't be coming back to Madrid with all the signings we have done. It's a shame, I really like him. He should be your first CM pick for the summer.
 
So it finishes Espanyol 1-2 Valencia after a hectic final 10 minutes. Now on to the big one!
 
Hopefully Mathieu has a good game today, surprise choice...I'm not a huge fan, guess Lucho didn't think Mascherano was a good choice against the aerial threat up top.
 
Again hearing this bizarre narrative that Messi has been great since Cristiano won the BdO... he's been outstanding literally all season save for four or five games spread out over several months.
 
Skorenzy said:
Again hearing this bizarre narrative that Messi has been great since Cristiano won the BdO... he's been outstanding literally all season save for four or five games spread out over several months.
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Sky commentator I assume? He's a bit of an idiot, always says stupid things.
 
Very good, energetic start from Athletic... as usual against Barça at the San Mamés! Looking like a great game.
 
My sky is for some reason not working. If anybody has any other online avenues to watch this game, a pm would be great.
 
Ridiculous from Suárez there, didn't make any sort of effort to get himself onside...
 
Second time Gerry Armstrong has said "Bravo from Bravo." Make it stop.
 
What a super, super save!!

Great cross by Messi and Suárez did everything right.
 
Some save by Iraizoz, but Suárez again not scoring such a clear cut chance... it's becoming a trend.
 
Loving the football barcelona are playing again..most attractive side to watch this season by a mile
 
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